Cross Country National Inters and Masters

brutes1

Looking forward to this next week in the mud in Boyle, surely it can t be as bad as ALSAA last year or can it?!, Ran it here a few years ago and the course was short, missed a lap , think i broke 30min for 10k cross country;)...
Many others running, the Masters is usually a huge field, will Peter Matthews storm to victory, Inters is usually fairly open...

On another note does anyone know the date/day and venue of the Inter clubs - have heard Santry again, I know it was on Sat last yr as opposed to Sun, lot handier I think if its on the Sat...although its down for the 26th Feb on AAI...

gmurran

I've been roped into going down. Bit far away for my liking but I guess allot of races are in and around Dublin.

dna_leri

I'm doing my bit for club masters team too.

Hopefully the weather stay favourable, cold and dry is ok.

runnerboy

Heard peter matthews is out due to competing in the euro clubs this weekend, so an open race with belfasts dave morwood and ciaran doherty letterkenny looking the likely winners. i hope to be around the chasing group id say it will be dry and fast. who are the likely winners in the inter men

brutes1

hard to know on mens inter usually a top young lad, mulhare won last year, o neill the year before...the novice top 5 would be a good guide, everard, seaward , rennicks, jayme rossiter etc , always a few dark horses, top 50 a good result for average joe here though .

http://www.roscommonherald.com/news/kfcwsnkfcw/

Bit of a preview here, all hands on deck in the Rossy, looks like the laps are longer this year too, no harm

aburke

Toughest 10km ever.

gmurran

aburke wrote: »

Toughest 10km ever.

Last year was worse conditions but flatter ground. There was no running on that course yesterday apart from one stretch out by the visitors center. It was stop start, slide the whole way around.

I believe these guys are trying to get a national senior. I for one hope that never happens as the course is not fit for the top race of the XC year. No more XC for me this year at least

dna_leri

Glad it was not just me - my first and last XC of the season.

Good running by Rossiter and O'Shaughnessy, especially after her indoor 3K the day before.

Seres

aburke wrote: »

Toughest 10km ever.

I Don't know how you got through 6 laps up that hill , i found the 4km race so unbelieveable tough , , mentally and physically i was at zero by the end . ANYONE who finished Yesterday deserves a pat on the back .

The races were really well organised and , except for the ladies masters race , all went off smoothly . The route for that race was changed at the last minute and they were send up the hill cause the loop was been used for relays . This meant that their race was long .
I was really pleased to see such a good representation of the West at the top in the senior results , Laura S , Colette Touhy and Peter Sullivan.
Fairplay to Laura, she has missed out on a top spot in the last couple of XC races but she came home very strong Yesterday .
I was at the finish helping out in the earlier races and the young ones are so gutsy , 2k for under 11s in those conditions , and some kids that were well back still managed to finish . They really give it everything , they are so brave , some of them crying at the finish cause they had tried so hard .
In relation to the course , it was really tough but i think its good to have them of hugely varying difficulties , its brings out the different strenghts and weaknesses of the competitors . A course good for one person can bring another person down , makes for very interesting competiton !!! Who wants too much predictablity.

dna_leri

No complaints on the organisation and facilities in Forest Park.

However for the national XC, which is effectively a selection for the Euro XC, they should try and mirror the conditions in the Euros as far as possible. If the Euros are going to be held on a flat sandy course, then they should select runners who do best on a flat sandy course.

Trouble is most of the regular courses in Ireland in November are wet and mucky

Seres

Any sign of results ?

Kittycat77

Did the womens intermediate race yesterday, was beyond tough, and conditions were far worse than I expected, the relief of green grass was very short lived between the long stretches of deep mud. Having said that Lough Key is a beautiful setting, and was lovely to have the visitors centre close to the course to use the facilities and get food and drinks after. I had been hoping for a top ten finish, so was disappointed to finish just outside that, but I couldnt have done any more on the day. Really hope the course for the national senior in Santry is in a better state.

karkar athlete

came accross this http://www.precisiontiming.net/result/racetimer?v=%252Fen%252Frace%252Fshow%252F750%253Flayout%253Dprecision_timing hope its the right one!!!!

runnerboy

tough course in boyle but for once can we have it on a dry course, i dont mind the mud but it seems for the last few years it has been on mudbaths. there is plenty of courses out there that dont cut up no matter how much it rains, bree in wexford, tinryland in carlow, rathdrum in wicklow and the phoenix park. please can we have it on one of these type of courses. no-one had an idea what way each lap went and put your hope on officials being on the ball and in fairness they were. thank god in the vets mens that we had a short last lap to finish up instead of going up the hill

Seres

The results are mad , a few of the top women in the novice race before xmas had very bad races Yesterday and some people that didnt fair that well before xmas got on well . Its my home turf and i have trained on it quite a bit but nothing could prepare you for running in that . Needed more than just raw speed to get thru it .

dna_leri

Seres wrote: »

The results are mad , a few of the top women in the novice race before xmas had very bad races Yesterday and some people that didnt fair that well before xmas got on well . Its my home turf and i have trained on it quite a bit but nothing could prepare you for running in that . Needed more than just raw speed to get thru it .

Seres - Did not realise you were so far up near the front, well done.

Clum

karkar athlete wrote: »

came accross this http://www.precisiontiming.net/result/racetimer?v=%252Fen%252Frace%252Fshow%252F750%253Flayout%253Dprecision_timing hope its the right one!!!!

According to those results 1st and 3rd in the Masters race were M35. I thought Masters began at M40 now? Have the rules been changed again?

dna_leri

Clum wrote: »

According to those results 1st and 3rd in the Masters race were M35. I thought Masters began at M40 now? Have the rules been changed again?

The following note was on the entry form:

Please Note: The category for Masters has been changed by the IAAF back to M35 /W35, we are accepting this change for individual medals, but cannot allow the M35/W35 to compete on the teams until a motion is put and passed by Congress, April 2012.

but they should be excluded from the team score calculations which is probably why these are not the official results yet. Don't think it will make a difference to the team placings though.

cfitz

It didn't seem near as bad as ALSAA to me. But I think part of it is that you have to be in the right frame of mind if you're going to run 10k around a course like that!

brutes1

Actually enjoyed the 10k , a real strength test, thought the course was tougher than ALSAA last year with the hills and turns, but underfoot conditions were way better on Sunday-
ALSAA was like the stretch from the finish to the base of hill the whole way, virtually no grass on the course , only one lad broke 40 mins on it - mulhare- whereas there were a good lot sub 40 on sunday,
Think the majority of good runners will always come to the fore in these races,regardless of the conditions. certainly judging by the top 10 in each race ,
Santry will be like a track race after that..
Big well done to Laura S, in the womens she has been knocking on the door for a couple of years, and went for it and won well
As an event It went off well , organisation wise might need a few powerhoses rather than showers next time , plus i cant understand why the inter women didnt have to run that hill at all...:D!!

T runner

I agree that the best runners do come to the fore judging by the top ten.

On courses like that there is more scope for people to go wrong with things like pacing. I think a lot of the field went out too hard and the race ended up being a painful slog.

The organisation was OK but one thing thats absolutely necessary is communicating the course accurately to the runners well in advance of the start by way of a map available to teams or at race info point.

Giving the course at the start line isnt fair and giving the wrong course as with the ladies masters isnt on.

My own take is that they have got this part wrong twice now (2010, and 2012) and if it were me deciding, that would rule them out for a Senior competition. Its down to who is willing to organise the event and fair play to them for putting the hand up. Its just a pity that a few easily corrected but vital things are overlooked again.

Knew the course would not be short again and wasnt suprised when someone said it came in at 10.5 k on the garmin. Anyone got a distance for the masters out of curiosity?

I guess the tactic for the majority of midpackers was hold back a a bit early and push through later. Forgoy about the pushing through bit though! :pac: There were two sections where a bit of leg turnover was possible and upping the turnover/pace for these sections was something i should have been doing every time.

I think cross country should be representative of the off-road conditions of the country/area the event is taking palce as its a national champs. So If thats hilly and mucky so be it.

brutes1

T runner wrote: »

I agree that the best runners do come to the fore judging by the top ten.

On courses like that there is more scope for people to go wrong with things like pacing. I think a lot of the field went out too hard and the race ended up being a painful slog.

The organisation was OK but one thing thats absolutely necessary is communicating the course accurately to the runners well in advance of the start by way of a map available to teams or at race info point.

Giving the course at the start line isnt fair and giving the wrong course as with the ladies masters isnt on.

My own take is that they have got this part wrong twice now (2010, and 2012) and if it were me deciding, that would rule them out for a Senior competition. Its down to who is willing to organise the event and fair play to them for putting the hand up. Its just a pity that a few easily corrected but vital things are overlooked again.

Knew the course would not be short again and wasnt suprised when someone said it came in at 10.5 k on the garmin. Anyone got a distance for the masters out of curiosity?

I guess the tactic for the majority of midpackers was hold back a a bit early and push through later. Forgoy about the pushing through bit though! :pac:

.

Thats how I ran it anyway , slow start,picked up places, ended up exactly mid pack, happy enough after a terrible run of form and poor training last few months, ran well relative to other lads ..had it at 6.5miles on garmin, but i would say the shortest line was 10k if it were possible to run that..!

We were told before by one of the starters it was 5 times up the hill and one short lap, couldnt believe we had to go up the hill a 6th time! ,

I think AAI changed the courses for the races on the day tho in fairness to local club, dunno why this was . I felt it was a good test anyway.

dna_leri

T runner wrote: »

The organisation was OK but one thing thats absolutely necessary is communicating the course accurately to the runners well in advance of the start by way of a map available to teams or at race info point.

Giving the course at the start line isnt fair and giving the wrong course as with the ladies masters isnt on.

.

There was a map posted at the entry point to the changing area and also on the results window, though it was a bit complicated to follow.

The map showed the "actual distances" also with the mens masters given as 6850m.

The starters (provided by AAI not local club) should not have let the masters women off until the relays had finished on the inner track - a simple communication error.

Seres

T runner wrote: »

The organisation was OK but one thing thats absolutely necessary is communicating the course accurately to the runners well in advance of the start by way of a map available to teams or at race info point.

Giving the course at the start line isnt fair and giving the wrong course as with the ladies masters isnt on.

My own take is that they have got this part wrong twice now (2010, and 2012) and if it were me deciding, that would rule them out for a Senior competition. Its down to who is willing to organise the event and fair play to them for putting the hand up. Its just a pity that a few easily corrected but vital things are overlooked again.

I feel i need to defend the club ( my club ) .
Now Firstly bear in mind i had no involvement in the organisation so this is not an attempt to defend my own actions .
The club were given a list of things they had to do in prep for the xc . They did this and the AAI came down to check the course etc and were happy so printouts of the course were done. However the night before the event (late that night ) the AAI decided that the course was to be changed so this left too little time to amend and printout new ones.
There was a map outside registration with the course layout for each race .
In relation to the ladies masters , an AAI official decided to send the women up the hill at the last minute because the 500m loop was been used by the the relays
In fairness i think the organisation was a huge improvement on 2010 .

T runner wrote: »

Knew the course would not be short again and wasnt suprised when someone said it came in at 10.5 k on the garmin. Anyone got a distance for the masters out of curiosity?.

10.5k on the garmin , the ground was so mucky that the correct line of the course could not be taken so its quite possible that it would measure long on someones garmin . I would accept a margin of error of 200m okay for XC course .

marchino

very tough underground conditions. i ran the inter mens and Ran ALSSA last year too but, with the hills here it wasnt much difference in difficulty level.

iam glad i didnt burst myself on sunday, well not that i had much choice, i dont know is it my muscle fibres or what but every 2 steps foward i took was followed by 1 step backwards!.

very easy to get frustrated but, iam glad i didnt and just treated it as a stamina training session for upcoming half marathon(s).
plenty of guys in the top 30/20's id be well able for on the road, just one of those days i guess and perhaps the fact i never train on the country really, just road.
Will have to aproachthis differntly next year and maybe include some BHAA x-country races in prep.
Well done to all who completed.
Totally Agree with an earlier comment, anyone who completed the course, in any of the races, deserves a pat on the back.
Also as suggested, i think powerhosing after finish line would be a very good idea.

T runner

dna_leri wrote: »

There was a map posted at the entry point to the changing area and also on the results window, though it was a bit complicated to follow.

The map showed the "actual distances" also with the mens masters given as 6850m.

The starters (provided by AAI not local club) should not have let the masters women off until the relays had finished on the inner track - a simple communication error.

Fair enough, didnt spot those.

T runner

Seres wrote: »

I feel i need to defend the club ( my club ) .
Now Firstly bear in mind i had no involvement in the organisation so this is not an attempt to defend my own actions .
The club were given a list of things they had to do in prep for the xc . They did this and the AAI came down to check the course etc and were happy so printouts of the course were done. However the night before the event (late that night ) the AAI decided that the course was to be changed so this left too little time to amend and printout new ones.
There was a map outside registration with the course layout for each race .
In relation to the ladies masters , an AAI official decided to send the women up the hill at the last minute because the 500m loop was been used by the the relays
In fairness i think the organisation was a huge improvement on 2010 .


10.5k on the garmin , the ground was so mucky that the correct line of the course could not be taken so its quite possible that it would measure long on someones garmin . I would accept a margin of error of 200m okay for XC course .

Thanks Seres. In fairness to the organisers and athletes the AAI should do their checks in adequate time, and should not force changes on the course minutes before an event.

It did strike me as odd re course confusion because i think the organisers commented on the Roscommon Herald that they were delighted with the course.

Anyway, not the first time the AAI has intervened in an unhelpful way. That was my only gripe--had no problem with the course lenght--i was just pretty certain it would not be short after 2010.

I take everything back!

Lough Key is a beautiful venue and hopefully ye get the Senior race youre looking for. I wont mess with the West again!:cool:

Seres

T runner wrote: »

Thanks Seres. In fairness to the organisers and athletes the AAI should do their checks in adequate time, and should not force changes on the course minutes before an event.

It did strike me as odd re course confusion because i think the organisers commented on the Roscommon Herald that they were delighted with the course.

Anyway, not the first time the AAI has intervened in an unhelpful way. That was my only gripe--had no problem with the course lenght--i was just pretty certain it would not be short after 2010.

I take everything back!

Lough Key is a beautiful venue and hopefully ye get the Senior race youre looking for. I wont mess with the West again!:cool:

Thanks T runner , all opinions are welcome:) , a well run event is first and foremost for everyone , organisers and competitors alike . There is alot of things that can be tightened up so if they get the Senior race its important to know the areas that need attention.

brutes1

Still no official results up ??! on AAI,:(.. icounty team results would be nice ...had to go before they were announced ...

I think the Lough key grounds are big enough to have a longer loop for the seniors say a 2km lap, to avoid the cut up conditions if need be to get a senior race . But its cross country its supposed to be rough ..!
In general I thought it was a very good and testing course, well marshalled, good support, parking, registration fine etc.

Ran in queens a couple of years back somewhat similar course, they had it sanded in the heavy mud spots so that could be an option . A map with the registration /numbers would be useful - AAI job ?

I m not sure if there were tea/coffee or cakes or chip vans around, they would make a few bob for local club/venue ..didnt get a look really , also again there were only a few showers correct me if im wrong seres!
, not that it bothered me, ended up taking a bath in one of the sinks haha:D

Condo131

Seres wrote: »

...... a well run event is first and foremost for everyone , organisers and competitors alike . There is alot of things that can be tightened up so if they get the Senior race its important to know the areas that need attention.

....well, seeing as you asked:
.....tape off sections that are closed - confusion at junctions, with people going the wrong way
.....stewards need to be proactive - not waiting for people to ask directions
.....stewards need to be awake - not sending people in the wrong direction, when asked for directions.

I know there was an issue with the Masters Women's race - had to be changed after race start, due to relays not being finished. You really need the stewards to be more proactive - some, at critical points, seemed more like spectators.

Seres

Condo131 wrote: »

....well, seeing as you asked:
.....tape off sections that are closed - confusion at junctions, with people going the wrong way
.....stewards need to be proactive - not waiting for people to ask directions
.....stewards need to be awake - not sending people in the wrong direction, when asked for directions.

I know there was an issue with the Masters Women's race - had to be changed after race start, due to relays not being finished. You really need the stewards to be more proactive - some, at critical points, seemed more like spectators.

Thats fair enough, thanks , two points there noted , stewards needed to be adequately briefed and tape off of closed areas

climbhigh

Masters photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24280411@N06/sets/72157629237818873/

Intermediate: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24280411@N06/sets/72157629238033849/

dna_leri

Results finally up:
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?page_id=160

Some changes in masters team scores.
Intermediate individual scores still missing - is there some dispute?

Seres

climbhigh wrote: »

Masters photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24280411@N06/sets/72157629237818873/

Intermediate: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24280411@N06/sets/72157629238033849/

looking at the photos is like re-living the nightmare ! I thought everyone round me was feelin alot better but judging by the looks on their faces they werent .

Condo131

dna_leri wrote: »

Some changes in masters team scores.

More to come....I'm missing, for one. I reckon some county team medal standings will change. No change will be posted until next week at least - lots on this w/e.

Results on Precision timing have been taken down.

Condo131

I've just gone through the Masters results "with a fine comb", comparing the Precision Timing results with those on the AAI website:
Precision Timing has 211 finishers, AAI have 194.

There are 5 names on the AAI list that are not in the Precision Timing list (however 1 PT is "Late Entry", that's probably 4)
There are 22 names on Precision Timing list that are not on the AAI list (Again, taking out the "Late Entry", that's probably 21).

...So.....between the two lists, there are possibly 25 people missing off the finishers list.

.............I'm one of the AWOL..:rolleyes: