The "Perfect" GAA Athlete

red_doran

Just wondering what people consider to be the ideal traits and characteristics required to play our games...i'm refering mostly to football but i'd like to hear from hurlers as well

I was recently told that the ideal football player needs to be similar to an 800m runner maybe not in stature but in stamina requirements.

I would tend to disagree... I think the ideal player should be quick on their feet and not necessairly a long distance runner...built or condtitioned to give and take knocks...Persistant and aggresive in tackling (not to be confused with being dirty)...
To be honest I believe the GAA can learn a lot from the physical preparation some rugby players commit to..
Intense short bursts of strength and speed are what I believe are required.

Skill-wise there is nothing more magnificent than seeing a perfectly executed diving-block (C. Gormley 03 Tyr v Arm) or watching the gooch or jamie clarke turn and twist their man...
But at club level (within county championships) I think a side which is more physically prepared can over come a skillful side.

lala88

Id go with Seamus Moynihan had most if not all the skills of the game. However nowa days players like Michael Darragh MacAuley and Aidan Walsh seem to be the new type of player

I dont know

No matter what we come up with in this thread, there’ll be examples to prove otherwise – some might suggest tall, athletic, strong etc but then the small, skilful, asthmatic Peter Canavan is among the best we’ve ever seen!

I don’t think there’d be a "Perfect" GAA Athlete. I think there are different qualities that suit to different positions and roles in the team – Similar to rugby but maybe not as stand out obvious!

Tombo2000

800m is not a long distance runner.

A marathon, or maybe 10,000 metres is a long distance runner.

The point made was that GAA players need speed and stamina.....A sprinter would have the speed, a 10k runner would have the stamina, an 800metre runner would have a good combination of both.

Tombo2000

I dont know wrote: »

No matter what we come up with in this thread, there’ll be examples to prove otherwise – some might suggest tall, athletic, strong etc but then the small, skilful, asthmatic Peter Canavan is among the best we’ve ever seen!

I don’t think there’d be a "Perfect" GAA Athlete. I think there are different qualities that suit to different positions and roles in the team – Similar to rugby but maybe not as stand out obvious!

Thats true, but you still need big men around him.

I remember going to the Corporate level bar in Croker after the 1996 semi between Meath and Tyrone.......the tyrone lads all just hobbled into the place.....all the skill in the world wasnt going to do it for them that day. So in that sense he didnt have 'all' the attributes......but its a team game. So put the right people around Canavan and he's the best player in the country.

red_doran

I totally agree that different breeds of players are needed in different positions...

Point taken about the 800m runner Tombo being a combo of speed and stamina but I was leaning to players having to be quick over very short distances 20-50m.

What i wanted to gauge was, how the qualities which can be coached and trained into individual players should be prioritised... not necessarily physical quailities beyond our control like height for example..

Kieran McGeeney,Seatanta ó Hailpain for me were the best well rounded players in recent times.

Tombo2000

red_doran wrote: »

I totally agree that different breeds of players are needed in different positions...

Point taken about the 800m runner Tombo being a combo of speed and stamina but I was leaning to players having to be quick over very short distances 20-50m.

What i wanted to gauge was, how the qualities which can be coached and trained into individual players should be prioritised... not necessarily physical quailities beyond our control like height for example..

Kieran McGeeney,Seatanta ó Hailpain for me were the best well rounded players in recent times.

An 800m runner would do sprinting as part of a training regime, they would be quicker than most of us over 20m to 50m.

Someone who is purely a sprinter would be out of puff after half an hour.....maybe.

David Gillick, who is a 400m runner, has the build of what you would think a GAA player should look like.

bah1011

a stronger colm cooper.

premierstone

red_doran wrote: »

Kieran McGeeney,Seatanta ó Hailpain for me were the best well rounded players in recent times.

I checked the calendar its definitly not April 1st so what gives??

red_doran

I got confused between them sorry .. I ment Sean óg ...he wouldnt have been drafted for the AFL if he wasnt a well rounded athlete...

What would you deem to be the perfect traits premier ?

premierstone

red_doran wrote: »

I got confused between them sorry .. I ment Sean óg ...he wouldnt have been drafted for the AFL if he wasnt a well rounded athlete...

What would you deem to be the perfect traits premier ?

I assumed you had mixed them up alright

Ah its too wide a question to be honest red, for example a FF will require very diferrent traits to a midfielder or a roving wingback. There is no definitive set of traits but Sean og is a very good example tbf he had very limited hurling ability and it is a credit to him he got to the top of the game through hard work and been an incredible athlete.

RickRoll

I'd have to say Denis Glennon would have the perfect stature for a GAA player. Tall, fast, strong and very skillfull.

SSK

For Gaelic Football I presume?

Sean Cavanagh would probably be the prototype I'd go for if I had to pick one player. Best balance of height, strength, power, pace etc. Brendan Murphy in Carlow would be another who would have a similar profile.

In essence, a lot of the players who were on the Irish IR team this year would be ideal in terms of physical make up for Gaelic Football.

Obviously as Gooch, Canavan etc. prove, you don't need to have the ideal physical traits to be a brilliant footballer.

The 400M runner is a very good comparison I reckon.

MrJoeSoap

In hurling, Diarmuid O'Sullivan had exactly what's needed (8m31secs, yes it's the Limerick point)...

Seriously though, if you are looking for the "perfect" GAA athlete, it depends on a number of things. Firstly the positions vary so much that each line on the field needs different traits and different attributes. A good full-forward needs strength, height and pace, whilst wingers and corner-forwards need bags of pace more than other positions. Stamina is more essential across the middle and the back.

Pride Fighter

red_doran wrote: »

I totally agree that different breeds of players are needed in different positions...

Point taken about the 800m runner Tombo being a combo of speed and stamina but I was leaning to players having to be quick over very short distances 20-50m.

What i wanted to gauge was, how the qualities which can be coached and trained into individual players should be prioritised... not necessarily physical quailities beyond our control like height for example..

Kieran McGeeney,Seatanta ó Hailpain for me were the best well rounded players in recent times.

You dont know how quick 800metre runners run. A world class 800 runner would run 200 metres in 26 seconds, 4 times in a row. For a full on sprint they would run 100 in 11 seconds or under. That is faster than any GAA player out there.

rebel girl 15

What the OP was told was Dave Matthews opinion on what the ideal GAA footballer should be in terms of fitness requirements, which is that of an 800m runner

http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0917/1224304267028.html?via=othersport

ATHLETICS: When it comes to the 800 metres, David Matthews knows what he’s talking about and he believes the perfect level of fitness for the Gaelic footballer these days is that of the 800 metre runner, writes IAN O'RIORDAN
MOST PEOPLE have probably made up their mind by now, but if you still can’t decide between Dublin and Kerry, and who really is going to win this All-Ireland, think of it as Usain Bolt versus Sebastian Coe.
“That’s what it’s going to come down to,” David Matthews told me this week, over a coffee on St Stephen’s Green. “I mean look, who would you rather have in your team?”
I was just about to answer, when he continued: “I know 90 per cent of people would go for Usain Bolt. But he would blow up after five or six minutes. The clever ones would go for Sebastian Coe. He’d be still there at the end, still running for the last five or six minutes, when the game is most likely to be won. Because the perfect level of fitness for the Gaelic footballer these days is that of the 800 metre runner. That’s the perfect combination of speed and endurance.”
Then he pulled out some stats, included the average distances the Cork footballers covered, in the 2009 championship.
“It was about 10km per game, around midfield anyway, of speeding up, slowing down, speeding up, slowing down, but rarely not moving at all, and the best preparation for that sort of running is 800 metres training,” he said, while I nodded in absolute approval.
Not everyone will be comfortable with the idea of two runners lecturing each other on Gaelic football, especially when one of them never played the game in his life, and the other only recently played a bit at junior level.
When we first sat down we’d actually laughed off the fuss about Dublin’s early morning training sessions, knowing as runners, we’d started that in school, and always considered it lazy NOT to train twice a day.
But believe me, when it comes to the 800 metres, David Matthews knows what he’s talking about. He’s still Ireland’s fastest man at the distance, our only sub-1:45, with the 1:44.82 he ran in Reiti in Italy, in September 1995 – about a week before Dublin last played, and of course won, an All-Ireland football final. (Yes, he hardly expected his record would last as long too.)
Actually our meeting wasn’t entirely coincidental: Matthews retired from competitive athletics in 2000, aged just 26, a little burnt out perhaps from running two Olympics, three World Championships, and eight other major championships in the space of seven years. He spent a few years working in banking and finance, then in the property business (who didn’t?), yet eventually realised sport and exercise was what he knew best.
So he’s set up his own fitness consultancy, having long practised what he wants to preach, and sees the modern Gaelic footballer as his closest ally.
“We’re all dished out with a limited amount of fast-twitch fibres,” he said, after ordering another large Americano. “No matter how hard you train, you can’t change that, not significantly anyway. But our physical, aerobic capacity can be improved greatly. That’s our speed endurance, and I still see room for the Gaelic footballer to take that to the next level.
“Let me put it another way. Most world class sprinters would beat an intercounty footballer in a short sprint, no problem. But any intercounty footballer would beat a world class sprinter over a mile, no problem.
“Then, if you put the intercounty footballer up against the world-class miler in a short sprint he’d probably beat them, but he wouldn’t have a hope of beating them over a mile.” At this point, by the way, even I was getting a little confused.
“Bear with me,” he said. “Now take an 800 metre runner. He would beat most intercounty footballers in a short sprint, no problem. And he’d definitely beat them all over a mile. There’s the crux of it. And what does it tell you?”
It tells me Matthews might be a little ahead of his time on this, but then in some ways he always was. When he first broke onto the scene in 1992, winning the Irish Schools’ 800 metres for Coláiste Chiaráin in Leixlip, he was quickly taken under the wing of Noel Carroll, at UCD, who instilled a deep philosophy not just on running but on life. By 1995 he found himself training in London with the renowned Kim McDonald crew, which included the great Kenyans Moses Kiptanui and Daniel Komen, and two years later was training in Australia with Sonia O’Sullivan, becoming one of her closest confidants.
Matthews also knew all about ice baths and core exercises and macro/micro training cycles long before they were ever heard of in the GAA, and in fact reckons he was the first Irish person to ever enter a cryotherapy chamber, when he travelled to Spala, in Poland in 2000 – about five years before Brian O’Driscoll made his famous trip.
But that’s in the past, and Matthews has few regrets about his running career, except that he might have retired a little early. In 1996 he also ran an Irish 1,000-metres record of 2:17.58, which again still stands, in 1998 he finished fifth at the European Indoor Championships in Valencia – although a major championship medal always eluded him.
After building his own house in Robertstown, close to where he grew up in Kildare, Matthews realised his competitive spirit was still burning, and the best way to channel that was join his local GAA club.
Robertstown were delighted with their new recruit, and although he ended up losing two junior county finals between 2007 and 2010, Matthews had become his own test case: his days as an 800-metre runner still had him extraordinarily well-conditioned for the demands of Gaelic football, even if he was a little short on the skills.
Since qualifying as a personal trainer, he found some first clients in the Irish Olympic Handball squad, a sport which about 10 years ago actually identified the 800 metre runner as having the perfect combination of aerobic and anaerobic capacity, or speed and endurance. They could hardly believe their luck when they found Matthews was available.
“I can’t tell people how to put the ball over the bar, or to score a goal in Olympic Handball. But I know about the happy medium between speed and endurance. Assuming skill, talent and football ability is the same, that they’d be the three constant parameters, I definitely see room for the Gaelic footballer to take that speed endurance to a greater level. I actually think they could be four or five years off reaching full potential.
“Even looking at my own county this year, Kildare, and the way they were still falling down with cramp, against Donegal, in extra time. That suggested to me Donegal were actually fitter, that there was room for improvement there, in Kildare’s speed endurance. Plus the longer you can be comfortable in the pace of the game the clearer your thoughts as well.
“One thing also I learnt from Noel Carroll, who was probably 20 years ahead of his time, was that every training session had to be for a reason, about progressing, always progressing, and always questioning why you were actually doing that session. Because knowledge might be king. But knowledge isn’t wisdom.”
This is true, and so is his knowledge that Kerry boast a couple more Sebastian Coes than Usain Bolts, at least compared to Dublin. Or at least I think that’s what Matthews said.

red_doran

Very interesting article thanks rebel_girl ...when its explained out like that it makes a lot of sense...

royaler83

Graham Geraghty, like him or loathe him. Tall, big physique, extremely fast, strong as an ox and very importantly as stubborn as a jackass! had the athleticism to play in any position

randd1

Henry Shefflin at his peak was the ideal athlete. Big, strong, good in the air, fast, very fit and a turn like a starling in full flight.

LeoB

The first player to enter my mind when I read the question was Tomás O'Sé .

A superb athlete, Strong, good tackler, good feet and produced the goods again and again for Kerry. One of the finest ball players mixed with his athletisism he is hard to surpass. I would imagine he was one of the first, if not the name penciled on the Kerry team. Great blocks, good passes, vital scores and cover a huge amount of ground.

Kevin McKiernan Down and Barry Cahill Dublin are both very good athletes and good ball players also. They have a good cut about them on the field. Paul Flynn Dublin, Kevin Cassidy Donegal and Philip Jordan Tyrone could fit the bill but Jordan probably because of the amount he scored from half back and full back lines which shows a great all round physical conditioning for the modern game

On the hurling front Tommy Walsh and Seamus Callinan are fine athletic players blessed with an abundance of skill.

premierstone

LeoB wrote: »

On the hurling front Tommy Walsh and Seamus Callinan are fine athletic players blessed with an abundance of skill.

Dont know if I would describe either of those as the ideal physical athlete, Walsh tbf to him is about 4-5 inches too small for what you would describe as the ideal wingback and its is really testament to the guy himself that he is as good as he is, I certainly wouldnt put it down to physique, Seamie Callinan similarily despite the fact he is a big frame of a guy, great speed and a massive stride, the truth is the guy wouldnt go into a dark room.

Fireball07

In terms of athleticism, Michael Fennelly is the perfect hurler imo.


Big and tall, very strong, aggressive, great engine, great speed over short distances and plenty of skill.

J-Fit

The article above is good and I have a lot of respect for Matthews because of the intelligence he brings to his conditioning approach but the logic is totally flawed and it all goes back to track athletes who have trained at a high level thinking what's good for them is good for everyone else. You would have to pick Bolt over Coe 10 times out of 10. Why? Matthews says it himself:

Type 2 muscle fibres (which help determine speed) are nowhere near as easy to train as aerobic capacity (which helps determine longer distance fitness).

So in his words it's easier to make a fast guy fit than it is to make a fit guy fast. i.e. Bolt could get a great deal fitter but Coe could not get a great deal faster.

For my ideal GAA athlete I'd much rather a Usain Bolt with a good work capacity that I could actually improve upon than a Seb Coe with a large gas tank but no horsepower.

ReacherCreature

Interesting question. If you're asking for "perfect" allow me to enter in to the "fantastical" because in life, there's little that's ideal!

Two categories: mental and physical. I'm leaning more towards hurling here.

Mental quality is underrated by the posts here. Obviously a GAA player has a great passion driving him but at times it's a marvel how they keep going. Ideal GAA player will have a razor sharp and intelligent mind. Sharp on the field to make a sudden turn or move to get to the ball faster. Intelligent mind to see the trend and flow of the game and how to adapt to it. A good game-reader who makes a change can possibly subtly influence the whole process. Staying on intelligence briefly, the player must know to improve on every game. Learn from any tiny mistakes, improve themselves and have the mentality that in every game they can get better. Listen to his team mates, managers and coaches. If that drive, enthusiasm and focus is there they will only get better. The ideal player will never have a favourite game or moment, the next game will be the best one. The possibilities for him or her are endless.

The ideal player will be fearless and have a never-say-die attitude. Fearless to the extent that they'll contest any ball, go in to crushing shoulders, and leap through the air - all this knowing that they can be wrecked but they want the glory and to win. A correct attitude i.e a winner, breeds strong leadership qualities that will rouse the whole changing room, from the reserves to the senior management. You'd be surprised at the things a leader can bring to the team.

Physical: obvious ideal qualities is to be extremely athletic with a high work rate and motor to keep going. A high jump, strong upper body strength, well built legs and feet (they'll absorb punishment) are welcome. The ideal player will have the ability to play pretty much anywhere. If you're restricting this a little bit, then a defender will have the ability to play any six positions at the back, same for positions of midfielders and forwards. I think we'll let this player pass if he can't play in goal. Excellent free taker and absolutely clinical finisher in front of the goal. They must know that fine balance of going for goal or point. Must be able to shoot from nearly anywhere on the field - from comfortable shooting i.e in front of the bars with no one around there must be a high success rate, say 90%. Other aspects include the ability to score with both hands and feet, hurling and football respectively. To borrow a phrase, they must be able to hurl in a phonebox. Obvious qualities such as height, strong build, agility and mobile are welcome. Speed is nice but quickness is underrated. Quickness indicates an ability to be fast in changes/cuts/moves and to operate nimbly in tight situations.

Mental and physical aspects occupy roughly a 50:50 in this perfect player and the mixture is devastating. In reality a player may be incredibly gifted but be thick as a ditch or he might be a genius of the game but physically lacking or not as quite talented.

If this perfect player ever existed they would dominate the game and possibly any other sport they may take a fancy to but the passion of GAA will be too strong and that's how the game will benefit. Like I said, fantastical post with a sprinkle of analysis (possibly a little too much) but it is fun to think of how this player coupled with a good-to-great squad around him/her would absolutely wreck their league of choice.

DublinGAA96

For me there is no "perfect athlete", it's all down to opinion. Personally, I think a skillful hurler or footballer is of a lot more value than a player with ounces of strength but with no technical ability or skills. I myself wouldn't be the biggest fella or the fittest fella but I like to think I have the necessary skills and short burst's of speed a forward needs in hurling or football. I hate to see managers picking physical and huge fella's over lads that are smaller with a lot more talent. When people discuss the GAA greats, in hurling the players for me that spring to mind are players like Tommy Walsh, but in particular DJ Carey. DJ was a very small fella but he had a sensational amount of skill and phenominal speed, and for me thats a lot more attractive to watch, rather than a big brute that is only fit. I wouldn't know as much about the football, but Peter Canavan and Colm Cooper spring to mind also. Some of the best players the Association has ever seen were small fella's. Now, dont get me wrong, if there are big athlete's with bundles of ability and skills then obviously they are useful, but if they don't have necessary skills and are just an engine then I feel they'd be of no use.