DB - fault affecting fares / RTE News

lil5

Dublin Bus says fault is affecting fares - RTE.ie -
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0127/bus.html

Dublin Bus says fault is affecting fares
Updated: 09:10, Friday, 27 January 2012

Dublin Bus is unable to accept fares on a small number of buses this morning because of a technical problem.

Dublin Bus has said it is unable to accept fares on a small number of buses this morning because of a technical problem.
The problem is a result of a software upgrade and is affecting buses from the Donnybrook depot.
The company said passengers who are unable to pay their fare are being allowed on to the bus free of charge.
Dublin Bus said it is working to get the problem resolved as soon as possible.

the groutch

and they're wondering why the company is making such a huge loss?

LXFlyer

So on one morning the validators don't work in one depot and you extrapolate that to the entire operation?

Have computers never had a problem where you work??

n97 mini

That's what testing is for. You make sure it works first.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

That's what testing is for. You make sure it works first.

With respect I'd very hard to believe that every company has not at some time experienced IT problems.

Frankly this is degenerating into yet another bash CIE thread when IT problems can and do happen to every company at some stage.

But maybe you live in utopia where nothing ever fails?

AlekSmart

the groutch wrote: »

And they're wondering why the company is making such a huge loss?

Well,no doubt it'll seriously disappoint the groutchy and foggy peeps,but I had no problems whatever and operated my duty without hitch...In facta,I'm SO efficient and treasured by my customers that most of them leave me a 10% tip....;)

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

With respect I'd very hard to believe that every company has not at some time experienced IT problems.

Frankly this is degenerating into yet another bash CIE thread when IT problems can and do happen to every company at some stage.

But maybe you live in utopia where nothing ever fails?

This is not a general IT problem. This is one specific system that was updated with software that was not properly tested.

Our fails only happen during testing, where they are fixed. Sorry to disappoint, but this is how professional companies are run.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

This is not a general IT problem. This is one specific system that was updated with software that was not properly tested.

Our fails only happen during testing, where they are fixed. Sorry to disappoint, but this is how professional companies are run.

Well I have to say that frankly I don't believe you - I've worked in many professional companies, but all of them at some stage have had system failures, be they new software, existing software or whatever.

Maybe you are just extraordinarily lucky.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

Maybe you are just extraordinarily lucky.

I (and MOST other Donnybrook Drivers) must be equally extraordinarlly UNlucky today....all my soft and hardware performed flawlessly...so much so that I'm currently trying to talk-to-Joe to publicise this awful news !

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

Well I have to say that frankly I don't believe you - I've worked in many professional companies, but all of them at some stage have had system failures, be they new software, existing software or whatever.

As I said already this is not a general failure. What you have listed above is a general failure.

The DB problem is software that was released without being tested properly.

lxflyer wrote: »

Maybe you are just extraordinarily lucky.

No, just a different approach.

Ravenid

n97 mini wrote: »

This is not a general IT problem. This is one specific system that was updated with software that was not properly tested.

Our fails only happen during testing, where they are fixed. Sorry to disappoint, but this is how professional companies are run.

All IT systems can develop faults. Especially when being introduced for the first time.

Newly installed/Updated software can only be tested so far in an enclosed environment. The only certain way to ensure your software work is to release it live. Then if there are any issues address them once they go live.

If every piece of software worked 100% of the time every time after going live there would be no need for Technical Support departments, patches to software etc.

And if you think your company has never had any roll-out issues go talk to your IT dept. They'll set you straight.

lil5

updated article on RTE News -
Dublin Bus says fault is affecting fares
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0127/bus.html


Dublin Bus says fault is affecting fares
Updated: 13:24, Friday, 27 January 2012

Dublin Bus is working to resolve the problem of some buses being unable to accept cash fares.

Dublin Bus has said it is working to resolve the problem of some buses being unable to accept cash fares.

The problem arose after an upgrade to the Wayfare system, which accepts cash fares on buses, and the buses were unable to give receipts.

A spokesperson for the company said the machines affected were on buses out of the Ringsend and Donnybrook depots.

Buses remained in service this morning and some people were allowed to travel for free.

Dublin Bus says most of the machines will be fixed by this afternoon and it expects the issue to be fully resolved by the evening peak at 4.30pm.

Buses are still in service and the problem does not affect pre-paid tickets.

AlekSmart

n97 mini wrote: »

As I said already this is not a general failure. What you have listed above is a general failure.

The DB problem is software that was released without being tested properly.

No, just a different approach.

I may be wrong but I fear the rush to crucify DB alone may well be a tad premature.

Whilst the DB Wayfarer system is it's own standalone responsibility,there may be,ermmm,certain "issues" surrounding integration and operation of the RPA/NTA's Leapcard specific elements.

However this results in a fair few cooks all stirring this pot of broth with,as we saw today the odd bit of spoiling to be found....

It's worth while reverting to the basics at times like this ...

http://www.rpa.ie/en/its/Pages/WhatIsITS.aspx

In September 2008, RPA announced the contract to supply back office for the Integrated Ticketing Scheme was awarded to IBM. The system to be developed is based on the best-in-class system in Singapore. IBM will be supported by their sub-contractor, MSI, to modify the Singapore system to meet the needs of Dublin.

I am more than willing to accept the credentials of the Singapore Ticketing System,however I remain somewhat concerned at what,exactly,are the "modifications" carried out to the "Best-In-Class" system to render it suitable for Irish sensibilities ?

Of course,I may well be totally wrong here, and whatever occurred this morning was all down to the sheer dreadfulness of Dublin Bus...that admission,at least,would be more satisfying to many posters and thus ensure a sound nights sleep ? :eek:

n97 mini

AlekSmart wrote: »

I may be wrong but I fear the rush to crucify DB alone may well be a tad premature.[/url]

Software company's fault. DB probably signed an inadequate SLA with them, which is DB's fault.

n97 mini

Ravenid wrote: »

And if you think your company has never had any roll-out issues go talk to your IT dept. They'll set you straight.

Some companies test extensively and exhaustively, some don't.

KD345

n97 mini wrote: »

The DB problem is software that was released without being tested properly.

You don't know that (unless you work in Dublin Bus maintenance, which I'm guessing you don't).

I'd like to think I work for a professional organisation, but we have had systems tested extensively only for things to go belly up in general use.

Not for the first time, I feel you are bashing Dublin Bus unfairly. They have a technical fault with the cash machine on a small number of buses. The service hasn't been affected and the problem is being addressed. I actually don't even think it's even worthy of being a news story.

n97 mini

KD345 wrote: »

Not for the first time, I feel you are bashing Dublin Bus unfairly

n97 mini wrote:

Software company's fault

I think people are quick to jump to the wrong conclusion.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Well,no doubt it'll seriously disappoint the groutchy and foggy peeps,but I had no problems whatever and operated my duty without hitch...In facta,I'm SO efficient and treasured by my customers that most of them leave me a 10% tip....;)

Oh the horror of some people getting ripped off by getting a free ride on the bus! :D

Dravokivich

n97 mini wrote: »

That's what testing is for. You make sure it works first.

Lets take into account that it was only 1 depot affected and not all. Would that not suggest they were rolling it out on a low scale basis in order to test and be sure there are no problems before a full scale roll out is completed?

dfx-

I was on AV319 last Saturday and neither its Wayfarer nor both of its card readers were working. It operated in service until it got to the Drimnagh Rd/Crumlin Rd corridor and went out of service, not losing revenue on the many people waiting in that corridor. Quickest journey ever. :pac:

I didn't see it appear on RTÉ news.

n97 mini

Dravokivich wrote: »

Lets take into account that it was only 1 depot affected and not all. Would that not suggest they were rolling it out on a low scale basis in order to test and be sure there are no problems before a full scale roll out is completed?

It would suggest they were doing that. However, that would also suggest that they maybe skipped on earlier testing, or were rushing the testing.

dublinman1990

Quote from Dravokivich

Lets take into account that it was only 1 depot affected and not all.

There were 2 depots affected, which were Ringsend and Donnybrook.

It wouldn't be a major problem IMO, because it has only on a few occasions on buses from Donnybrook had their ticket machines over a period of a few years.

Victor

Ravenid wrote: »

Newly installed/Updated software can only be tested so far in an enclosed environment. The only certain way to ensure your software work is to release it live. Then if there are any issues address them once they go live.

Staged releases are possible. Having been involved in several transport-related IT projects, I have generally been able to point to failures and predict likely human difficulties.

n97 mini

If you've ever worked in a company that manufacturers telco carrier equipment or PABXes, that gear is tested to within an inch of its life before release. One company I worked for had a 15-month software verification process. Verification is testing and then some, and does not compare to what goes on in "normal" software companies where essentially the public are beta testers. There were no bugs in the end product.

the groutch

lxflyer wrote: »

So on one morning the validators don't work in one depot and you extrapolate that to the entire operation?

it's not an isolated incident, for years DB have had issues like this.
I've lost count of the number of times the old card readers were broken, letting people ride for free, and even the new smartcard ones have been not working their share of times.
it's a good while since I've witnessed not being able to take cash, but the amount of free journeys being given is too many for such a big comapny

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

Oh the horror of some people getting ripped off by getting a free ride on the bus! :D

This is actually an interesting point.

On the few occasions when I've had a Ticket Machine failure and been instructed to allow free access,I've always been impressed at the numbers of passengers who make stenorian attempts to stuff their fare into the vault.

A lot of this is being so accustomed to the stuff working that the departure from the norm simply does not compute,which is testimony to how reliable the system actually is

As I've stated so many times.....95% of passengers never appear on the radar...they get on,pay or display,sit read or listen to stuff,get up,ring the bell and get off....no thrill-seeking,aggrevation,histronics...no nothing...and yet they rarely recieve any credit for it.....the remaining 5% then strive to set that omission right !! :eek:

angel01

Why this even made the news is beyond me

parsi

Its funny how fare problems spark national outrage but things like mobile broadband outages (such as O2 and three regularly experience) tend to be ignored.

juan.kerr

angel01 wrote: »

Why this even made the news is beyond me

Better that than it being covered up.

dublinman1990

50 buses is a high record for the number of wayfarer machines going faulty within the Dublin Bus fleet for one day.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0127/bus.html#video

Can't believe this was on 6.1 news after watching it last night.

Victor

No doubt the reason it was reported was because it affected RTÉ staff.

parsi

Victor wrote: »

No doubt the reason it was reported was because it affected RTÉ staff.

Bit like the bin services transfer. Not a peep when it happened in Cork.