Parish Farm Hand..Sounds a bit dodgy..

Dazzler88

Hey guys.Just seen these guys advertising in the Journal today and thought it sounds a little strange.

1. The website is very badly designed
2. They list the workers who have signed up but don't list farmers that seek there help.
3. To buy 1 parish is expensive,especially when no farmers in your parish might have heard of them.

Just wondering have anybody on hear heard of them and it is legit.It looks to me that you could give them €99 of your hard earned cash and not here back from then.
I don't think anyone in my parish would seek them for farm help. Likelihood is any local farmer would know where to get help themselves.Just ask local farmers sons or part time farmers.Here is the link to their site
www.parishfarmhand.com

bob charles

Dazzler88 wrote: »

Hey guys.Just seen these guys advertising in the Journal today and thought it sounds a little strange.

1. The website is very badly designed
2. They list the workers who have signed up but don't list farmers that seek there help.
3. To buy 1 parish is expensive,especially when no farmers in your parish might have heard of them.

Just wondering have anybody on hear heard of them and it is legit.It looks to me that you could give them €99 of your hard earned cash and not here back from then.
I don't think anyone in my parish would seek them for farm help. Likelihood is any local farmer would know where to get help themselves.Just ask local farmers sons or part time farmers.Here is the link to their site
www.parishfarmhand.com

gets interesting down at the bottom when it mentions about sub contracting work to an other guy but you would be getting a cut of his wage:pac:

red menace

They spelled dose wrong

Dazzler88

bob charles wrote: »

gets interesting down at the bottom when it mentions about sub contracting work to an other guy but you would be getting a cut of his wage:pac:

That was about the only part that intrigued me.

Dazzler88

red menace wrote: »

They spelled dose wrong

Noticed that I wouldn't like to meet the Parish Farmhand that designed the edited the website.

Belongamick

Not sure I'd be dealing with a business that only has a mobile phone number for contact... No name, vague address... but best of luck to them.

6480

a load of crap if ever stuck there is lots of help out their now its only a matter of ringing around , lots of people willing to work these days on farms

Arrow in the Knee

Agree, a load of rubbish.

Most of got a 10 year old to do the website.

Talk about making a good impression by having a web page!

TheWeasel

Either it is legit and they're not very professional or it's a load of rubbish. Either way it's easy to find farm hands like ye said. I'd rather go on word of mouth or through people I know than go looking on something like that.

Justjens

Fair fecks to them for coming up with the idea, if it is legit, bit worried by the subcontracting bit, reminiscent of pyramid sellers I fear.

I'd say this is one to watch as who knows where it will lead!

red menace

what ever about the sub contracting,the 99 quid a year is easy money for them.

cbkk

Dazzler88 wrote: »

Hey guys.Just seen these guys advertising in the Journal today and thought it sounds a little strange.

1. The website is very badly designed
2. They list the workers who have signed up but don't list farmers that seek there help.
3. To buy 1 parish is expensive,especially when no farmers in your parish might have heard of them.

Just wondering have anybody on hear heard of them and it is legit.It looks to me that you could give them €99 of your hard earned cash and not here back from then.
I don't think anyone in my parish would seek them for farm help. Likelihood is any local farmer would know where to get help themselves.Just ask local farmers sons or part time farmers.Here is the link to their site
www.parishfarmhand.com

As the people who have started this service, we'd like to thank you for your feedback and we will use it to improve the service.

1. The website is very badly designed

Fair enough - but we are not trying to win any design competitions.
We'll try to improve it in the future. Just takes time.



2. They list the workers who have signed up but don't list farmers that seek there help.


Well that is the point of the system. No point us listing farmers's seeking help when the Members have their own mobile number on the site.
Farmers just contact them directly if they meet their requirements.
No need to contact us.
Where Farmers contact us with specific requirements, we pass the leads
onto the paying members in the area.



3: To buy 1 parish is expensive,especially when no farmers in your parish might have heard of them.


Fair enough. We are trying to get more widely known.
The Irish Farming Independent wrote an article about us yesterday.
We'll be in various media including the Journal.
We've also brought out a 49 euro pakage.
We're learning from feedback.


In every other trade, you can find tradesmen profiled on a site.
I don't see why Farmers shouldn't be able to have the same facility.


Anyhow, thank you for your comments.

Dazzler88

cbkk wrote: »

As the people who have started this service, we'd like to thank you for your feedback and we will use it to improve the service.

1. The website is very badly designed

Fair enough - but we are not trying to win any design competitions.We'll try to improve it in the future. Just takes time.

A badly designed website is one of the first fundamental flaws in any business.I have seen countless businesses crumble because of it.If you aren't willing to invest why should your customers.

cbkk wrote: »

2. They list the workers who have signed up but don't list farmers that seek there help.


Well that is the point of the system. No point us listing farmers's seeking help when the Members have their own mobile number on the site.
Farmers just contact them directly if they meet their requirements.
No need to contact us.
Where Farmers contact us with specific requirements, we pass the leads
onto the paying members in the area.

Obviously we don't expect you to list farmers in your area's but why not have a feature eg. 5 farmers in your Parish using this service. Entice people to join.

cbkk wrote: »

3: To buy 1 parish is expensive,especially when no farmers in your parish might have heard of them.


Fair enough. We are trying to get more widely known.
The Irish Farming Independent wrote an article about us yesterday.
We'll be in various media including the Journal.
We've also brought out a 49 euro pakage.
We're learning from feedback.

49 euro is a lot of money for one parish,remember a lot of Parishes are small,my own Parish would have barely 500 people of which about 50 are farmers. Also when their is no guarantee of work. Its comes across like 'Give us your money and hope for the best'

cbkk wrote: »

In every other trade, you can find tradesmen profiled on a site.
I don't see why Farmers shouldn't be able to have the same facility.


Anyhow, thank you for your comments.

Just a few pointers that you may consider.Not trying to tell you your job but just customer feedback.

pakalasa

Arrow in the Knee wrote: »

....Most of got a 10 year old to do the website......

Oh, the irony.:D

red menace

One change I would suggest changing the way the parishes are laid out?
I find that list hard to navigate when I am using a mouse with no scroll.
Could I suggest arranging it in breadcrumbs>

For example

Ulster > Antrim > Glenarm
Leinster>Kilkenny > Muckalee

and so on.

No need to show every parish to everyone

Just my 2c

Cowboyfarmer

As a farmer, I am always glad to see somebody new come along and offer something new and better, however I fail to see how this improves over the existing offering i.e. employing someone yourself or getting farm relief. I would have a few concerns as raised by other posters, including:

1. No landline number or contact name on website - doesn't look good.
2. "Sponsored link" with JD logo on website that doesn't link to JD site, JD dealer or anything to do with JD - doesn't look good.
3. Are the "farmhands" interviewed and vetted? (I don't want some lad leaving antibiotics into the tank, also don't want him driving off with my quad bike!)
4. Are there any minimum requirements for farmhands - e.g. cert in farming or other relevant training, years experience, valid references etc?
5. As per point 2 are farmhands insured against any mishaps on my farm e.g. antibiotics as per above or breaking back window of tractor/pto shaft etc?
6. Are these guys insured in the event they injure themselves on my farm?
7. Will I get an invoice to write off against tax? Will it show the VAT?
8. If I don't like an operator for any reason - personality clashes do happen! - who do I ring to replace him?
9. There's supposedly an article on this weeks Farming Independent on Parish Farmhand - I must be blind but I can't find any article specifically on this.
10. "No middlemen" yet what is "Parish Farmhand?" and what is the guy who subcontracts his area doing other than acting as a middleman?
11. I know lots of young guys out of ag college looking for work - they can register with farm relief for free or they can advertise direct to the farmer on done deal for €3 for 3 months or on the local newspaper classifieds for €5 or €6 per issue, why would they pay Parish Farmhand when they would get much more local exposure for less money (or free) by using these 3 methods.

As I said at the outset, I welcome any new offerings for farmers that can improve on current offerings, but I don't think this does. Best of luck to them though, it looks like they've got a few bob from guys they signed up already. I however, have a new mantra for this recession, "Lets help ourselves", the best organisations I know that have our interest at heart are those owned by us i.e. co-operatives, thats why I intend to support my co-op mart, my credit union, and my local farm relief co-op, because if I don't they won't be around to support me and other farmers, leaving us at the mercy of private companies and I think we have seen many examples of how they have let us down over the past decade.

cbkk

Cowboyfarmer wrote: »

As a farmer, I am always glad to see somebody new come along and offer something new and better, however I fail to see how this improves over the existing offering i.e. employing someone yourself or getting farm relief. I would have a few concerns as raised by other posters, including:

1. No landline number or contact name on website - doesn't look good.
2. "Sponsored link" with JD logo on website that doesn't link to JD site, JD dealer or anything to do with JD - doesn't look good.
3. Are the "farmhands" interviewed and vetted? (I don't want some lad leaving antibiotics into the tank, also don't want him driving off with my quad bike!)
4. Are there any minimum requirements for farmhands - e.g. cert in farming or other relevant training, years experience, valid references etc?
5. As per point 2 are farmhands insured against any mishaps on my farm e.g. antibiotics as per above or breaking back window of tractor/pto shaft etc?
6. Are these guys insured in the event they injure themselves on my farm?
7. Will I get an invoice to write off against tax? Will it show the VAT?
8. If I don't like an operator for any reason - personality clashes do happen! - who do I ring to replace him?
9. There's supposedly an article on this weeks Farming Independent on Parish Farmhand - I must be blind but I can't find any article specifically on this.
10. "No middlemen" yet what is "Parish Farmhand?" and what is the guy who subcontracts his area doing other than acting as a middleman?
11. I know lots of young guys out of ag college looking for work - they can register with farm relief for free or they can advertise direct to the farmer on done deal for €3 for 3 months or on the local newspaper classifieds for €5 or €6 per issue, why would they pay Parish Farmhand when they would get much more local exposure for less money (or free) by using these 3 methods.

As I said at the outset, I welcome any new offerings for farmers that can improve on current offerings, but I don't think this does. Best of luck to them though, it looks like they've got a few bob from guys they signed up already. I however, have a new mantra for this recession, "Lets help ourselves", the best organisations I know that have our interest at heart are those owned by us i.e. co-operatives, thats why I intend to support my co-op mart, my credit union, and my local farm relief co-op, because if I don't they won't be around to support me and other farmers, leaving us at the mercy of private companies and I think we have seen many examples of how they have let us down over the past decade.

***You say that you don't see how our service is better than "employing someone yourself"
You are confused - with our service you will be 'employing someone yourself'. We just help both sides find each other - Farmers and Self Employed Farm Workers.

***Come into the 21st century - You can get a landline number for anywhere in Ireland in 5 minutes and you could be living in Ghana.

Check this out: http://www.mydivert.com/ for example.
In fact, I'd be more afraid of new website services with a landline these days.



**Any Farm Worker can try the service for free - so where is the risk in it - even if it "doesn't look good" in your opinion?

***All the guys who sign up can do so for FREE for 2 months - so where is the risk to them. If it doesn't work for them - they lose nothing.

***Everyone on the site is self employed. We are just a simple service that allows Farmers to search on an area by area basis and generates business leads for users.
If I get a number of a Plumber from the Golden Pages, do you think the Golden Pages vets the plumber?
We are not middlemen in the sense that we do not take a cut on every hour that the Farm worker works so we do not need to vet anybody.
It is a matter between the Farmer and the Self Employed person.

Farmers should not rely on third party employment agencies who are getting a cut on every hour to vet workers.
They should be prudent and do their own vetting.

**If you don't like the self employed guy you hired, then find another self employed guy - same as every other business arrangement in the world.
I think you are confused on what we offer. We do not employ farm workers.

**Re Farming Independent: Yes -you may need to see an optician - first inside page of this weeks Farming Independent - right hand side.
The journalist, Caitriona Murphy, kindly wrote the piece.

We are a new service - which people can try out for free -both Farmers and Farm workers.
Yes there are other ways of finding and hiring farmworkers - Done Deal, FRS, Classifieds etc - doesn't mean that we stop coming up with other ways of doing things. That would not be good for anyone.

Cowboyfarmer

cbkk wrote: »

***You say that you don't see how our service is better than "employing someone yourself"
You are confused - with our service you will be 'employing someone yourself'. We just help both sides find each other - Farmers and Self Employed Farm Workers.

***Come into the 21st century - You can get a landline number for anywhere in Ireland in 5 minutes and you could be living in Ghana.

Check this out: http://www.mydivert.com/ for example.
In fact, I'd be more afraid of new website services with a landline these days.



**Any Farm Worker can try the service for free - so where is the risk in it - even if it "doesn't look good" in your opinion?

***All the guys who sign up can do so for FREE for 2 months - so where is the risk to them. If it doesn't work for them - they lose nothing.

***Everyone on the site is self employed. We are just a simple service that allows Farmers to search on an area by area basis and generates business leads for users.
If I get a number of a Plumber from the Golden Pages, do you think the Golden Pages vets the plumber?
We are not middlemen in the sense that we do not take a cut on every hour that the Farm worker works so we do not need to vet anybody.
It is a matter between the Farmer and the Self Employed person.

Farmers should not rely on third party employment agencies who are getting a cut on every hour to vet workers.
They should be prudent and do their own vetting.

**If you don't like the self employed guy you hired, then find another self employed guy - same as every other business arrangement in the world.
I think you are confused on what we offer. We do not employ farm workers.

**Re Farming Independent: Yes -you may need to see an optician - first inside page of this weeks Farming Independent - right hand side.
The journalist, Caitriona Murphy, kindly wrote the piece.

We are a new service - which people can try out for free -both Farmers and Farm workers.
Yes there are other ways of finding and hiring farmworkers - Done Deal, FRS, Classifieds etc - doesn't mean that we stop coming up with other ways of doing things. That would not be good for anyone.

I’m feeling a little hard done by, - Dazzler88 gets a thank you for his feedback and I don’t get any! Lol. Seriously, I didn’t mean to wind you up, but all feedback is positive – especially when its negative if you get my drift! I suppose I at least owe you an explanation of some of the comments.

What I meant by “Employing someone yourself” was just that – direct employment of an individual where all terms and conditions (including rate of pay and minimum hours/day). The point I was trying to make (albeit subtly) was that your site takes away the ability to negotiate rates of pay and min hrs/day. This is especially a problem as you are just a database, meaning a great degree of variation in experience, qualifications and quality of work between those listed on your site – i.e. some will be worth much less than €12ph and some much more.

Landline numbers are still used by most large serious organisations, including some very prominent, progressive, technically proficient multinationals – why? Because it gives them credibility. If its as easy as you suggest to get a landline, why not get one? While you’re doing this you should also put your face and name to the website – being anonymous won’t do much for your credibility either.

Any worker can try the service for free, but he/she is under the pressure of having their parish bought out by another unless they pay up. The free sign up also expired on Feb 5th according to your website.

Here’s the crucial one – what you are doing on your site is very different to either the Golden Pages or other online trades directories for the following reasons: Trades People work on short-term jobs, building up a wide and very public reputation very quickly, also the majority have standardised qualifications – i.e. FAS apprenticeship or equivalent, so If I pick a tradesman from an online directory, I can check his credentials and references quite easily. Not so easy for farm workers – many of whom have less qualifications, experience and interest than farm workers of the past – many are now doing it because they have to not because they want to. How many times have I heard: “I was working on the buildings and now nothing is happening so I decided to look for farm work”? When you delve into these peoples experience in farming, more often than not its quite scant or non-existent. The other big difference between a tradesman and a farm worker is that the tradesman doesn’t become central to the running of your livelihood nor does he become part of you and your family’s life as a farm worker does due to the unique intertwining of business and home that only happens in farmyards – aside from abilty, trust is everything. Furthermore a farm worker can vary from being an out of work B.Ag to a Green Cert graduate to an FAB graduate to a guy with 20 yrs experience to somebody with none of the above and is a complete novice.

By “third party employment agencies who are getting a cut”, I presume you mean farm relief? I am a big fan of this organisation as its a farmer-owned co-operative which means we have a say in how its run and the services it provides – just like our co-op marts, credit unions, and co-op creameries (not PLCs). I prefer to use them to direct employment for these reasons and: Fully tax-deductible invoice showing VAT which I can reclaim if and when I register for VAT; Operators work insured –so if he does make a mess, its covered; Operator insured against accident; Operator fully vetted and reference-checked; Flexible conditions – short, long or medium term ; If I don’t like an operator for any reason, I just pick up the phone and he’s replaced next morning – no drama, whereas if I employ a guy directly and he turns out to be a prick, its a little awkward telling him to get lost; No PRSI, Holiday pay or redundancy entitlements to worry about. I think this route is a no-brainer as I no longer have the time or patience to be searching for guys or “vetting “ them, also if your farm is actually making a profit, it generally works out cheaper after tax. Putting “No Drama” on your motto on top is therefore misleading, there’s far less drama and effort in using FRS than employing direct in my experience.

On the subject of third parties taking a cut – does this not apply to guys sub-contracting a “Parish” in your system? Putting “No middleman” in your motto on top is therefore misleading.

RE Farming Independent, I’m not blind, I saw the four sentences on the side bar on the inside cover , but I was looking for “The recent article” as you say on your website. An article is usually longer than four sentences.

I wasn’t saying that something new is bad, but I still fail to see any new benefits for me the farmer? Its a database of unchecked farm workers that charges the worker to register, limits the farmer to paying €12ph regardless of calibre of farm worker , and limits to min 3hrs. Where’s the improvement? If I want to look for a farm worker to employ directly in an online platform I can go on done deal – its easier to use, clearer and better laid out than your site. From a potential worker’s perspective they are likely to get more exposure this way also due to greater website traffic. Done Deal has another advantage – its quite addictive! I don’t think we should stop coming up with new things either – just so long as they add value or can do something of use. Look at it this way, if you went on Dragon’s Den looking for investment, and ignored/completely refuted the points I have raised, do you think they would invest? Fair play to you for trying, the general concept is good, but you need to work on the model and how its delivered. You are also operating in a very limited, seasonal and unique market, I would suggest expanding to include or re-focussing on trades. You probably don’t want to hear it, but I hope its of some use to you.

Best of luck with everything, as I said at the outset, it wasn’t my intention to cause upset, rather to inspire thought and debate, I find new business models and concepts fascinating – almost as much as farming, hence the long-winded reply!

cbkk

Cowboyfarmer wrote: »

I’m feeling a little hard done by, - Dazzler88 gets a thank you for his feedback and I don’t get any! Lol. Seriously, I didn’t mean to wind you up, but all feedback is positive – especially when its negative if you get my drift! I suppose I at least owe you an explanation of some of the comments.

What I meant by “Employing someone yourself” was just that – direct employment of an individual where all terms and conditions (including rate of pay and minimum hours/day). The point I was trying to make (albeit subtly) was that your site takes away the ability to negotiate rates of pay and min hrs/day. This is especially a problem as you are just a database, meaning a great degree of variation in experience, qualifications and quality of work between those listed on your site – i.e. some will be worth much less than €12ph and some much more.

Landline numbers are still used by most large serious organisations, including some very prominent, progressive, technically proficient multinationals – why? Because it gives them credibility. If its as easy as you suggest to get a landline, why not get one? While you’re doing this you should also put your face and name to the website – being anonymous won’t do much for your credibility either.

Any worker can try the service for free, but he/she is under the pressure of having their parish bought out by another unless they pay up. The free sign up also expired on Feb 5th according to your website.

Here’s the crucial one – what you are doing on your site is very different to either the Golden Pages or other online trades directories for the following reasons: Trades People work on short-term jobs, building up a wide and very public reputation very quickly, also the majority have standardised qualifications – i.e. FAS apprenticeship or equivalent, so If I pick a tradesman from an online directory, I can check his credentials and references quite easily. Not so easy for farm workers – many of whom have less qualifications, experience and interest than farm workers of the past – many are now doing it because they have to not because they want to. How many times have I heard: “I was working on the buildings and now nothing is happening so I decided to look for farm work”? When you delve into these peoples experience in farming, more often than not its quite scant or non-existent. The other big difference between a tradesman and a farm worker is that the tradesman doesn’t become central to the running of your livelihood nor does he become part of you and your family’s life as a farm worker does due to the unique intertwining of business and home that only happens in farmyards – aside from abilty, trust is everything. Furthermore a farm worker can vary from being an out of work B.Ag to a Green Cert graduate to an FAB graduate to a guy with 20 yrs experience to somebody with none of the above and is a complete novice.

By “third party employment agencies who are getting a cut”, I presume you mean farm relief? I am a big fan of this organisation as its a farmer-owned co-operative which means we have a say in how its run and the services it provides – just like our co-op marts, credit unions, and co-op creameries (not PLCs). I prefer to use them to direct employment for these reasons and: Fully tax-deductible invoice showing VAT which I can reclaim if and when I register for VAT; Operators work insured –so if he does make a mess, its covered; Operator insured against accident; Operator fully vetted and reference-checked; Flexible conditions – short, long or medium term ; If I don’t like an operator for any reason, I just pick up the phone and he’s replaced next morning – no drama, whereas if I employ a guy directly and he turns out to be a prick, its a little awkward telling him to get lost; No PRSI, Holiday pay or redundancy entitlements to worry about. I think this route is a no-brainer as I no longer have the time or patience to be searching for guys or “vetting “ them, also if your farm is actually making a profit, it generally works out cheaper after tax. Putting “No Drama” on your motto on top is therefore misleading, there’s far less drama and effort in using FRS than employing direct in my experience.

On the subject of third parties taking a cut – does this not apply to guys sub-contracting a “Parish” in your system? Putting “No middleman” in your motto on top is therefore misleading.

RE Farming Independent, I’m not blind, I saw the four sentences on the side bar on the inside cover , but I was looking for “The recent article” as you say on your website. An article is usually longer than four sentences.

I wasn’t saying that something new is bad, but I still fail to see any new benefits for me the farmer? Its a database of unchecked farm workers that charges the worker to register, limits the farmer to paying €12ph regardless of calibre of farm worker , and limits to min 3hrs. Where’s the improvement? If I want to look for a farm worker to employ directly in an online platform I can go on done deal – its easier to use, clearer and better laid out than your site. From a potential worker’s perspective they are likely to get more exposure this way also due to greater website traffic. Done Deal has another advantage – its quite addictive! I don’t think we should stop coming up with new things either – just so long as they add value or can do something of use. Look at it this way, if you went on Dragon’s Den looking for investment, and ignored/completely refuted the points I have raised, do you think they would invest? Fair play to you for trying, the general concept is good, but you need to work on the model and how its delivered. You are also operating in a very limited, seasonal and unique market, I would suggest expanding to include or re-focussing on trades. You probably don’t want to hear it, but I hope its of some use to you.

Best of luck with everything, as I said at the outset, it wasn’t my intention to cause upset, rather to inspire thought and debate, I find new business models and concepts fascinating – almost as much as farming, hence the long-winded reply!

What I meant by “Employing someone yourself” was just that – direct employment of an individual where all terms and conditions (including rate of pay and minimum hours/day). The point I was trying to make (albeit subtly) was that your site takes away the ability to negotiate rates of pay and min hrs/day. This is especially a problem as you are just a database, meaning a great degree of variation in experience, qualifications and quality of work between those listed on your site – i.e. some will be worth much less than €12ph and some much more.


******Again you miss the central point, all farmworkers are self employed and agree their own rates with the farmer.
12 an hour is a guide rate

Here’s the crucial one – what you are doing on your site is very different to either the Golden Pages or other online trades directories for the following reasons: Trades People work on short-term jobs, building up a wide and very public reputation very quickly, also the majority have standardised qualifications – i.e. FAS apprenticeship or equivalent, so If I pick a tradesman from an online directory, I can check his credentials and references quite easily. Not so easy for farm workers – many of whom have less qualifications, experience and interest than farm workers of the past – many are now doing it because they have to not because they want to. How many times have I heard: “I was working on the buildings and now nothing is happening so I decided to look for farm work”? When you delve into these peoples experience in farming, more often than not its quite scant or non-existent. The other big difference between a tradesman and a farm worker is that the tradesman doesn’t become central to the running of your livelihood nor does he become part of you and your family’s life as a farm worker does due to the unique intertwining of business and home that only happens in farmyards – aside from abilty, trust is everything. Furthermore a farm worker can vary from being an out of work B.Ag to a Green Cert graduate to an FAB graduate to a guy with 20 yrs experience to somebody with none of the above and is a complete novice.


*** I don't agree - no matter who you hire for a job, you need to have trust in them. Whether a tradesman or a farm worker - check to see if he has experience to do the job and whether he is qualified.
If you are no good at your job, you'll get found out - doesn't matter what your occupation is.


By “third party employment agencies who are getting a cut”, I presume you mean farm relief? I am a big fan of this organisation as its a farmer-owned co-operative which means we have a say in how its run and the services it provides – just like our co-op marts, credit unions, and co-op creameries (not PLCs). I prefer to use them to direct employment for these reasons and: Fully tax-deductible invoice showing VAT which I can reclaim if and when I register for VAT; Operators work insured –so if he does make a mess, its covered; Operator insured against accident; Operator fully vetted and reference-checked; Flexible conditions – short, long or medium term ; If I don’t like an operator for any reason, I just pick up the phone and he’s replaced next morning – no drama, whereas if I employ a guy directly and he turns out to be a prick, its a little awkward telling him to get lost; No PRSI, Holiday pay or redundancy entitlements to worry about. I think this route is a no-brainer as I no longer have the time or patience to be searching for guys or “vetting “ them, also if your farm is actually making a profit, it generally works out cheaper after tax. Putting “No Drama” on your motto on top is therefore misleading, there’s far less drama and effort in using FRS than employing direct in my experience.

**Again - you are mistaken about our service - all are self employed - so the farm worker is not an employees of the farmer - so no holiday pay etc. Unless both parties agree otherwise.
So yes - No Drama is applicable.
FRS is a different model - but the Farmer and the Farmhand both pay extra for their service.


On the subject of third parties taking a cut – does this not apply to guys sub-contracting a “Parish” in your system? Putting “No middleman” in your motto on top is therefore misleading.

**I once worked for an agency. Believe me, there is nothing worse as a worker losing a few quid every hour to an agency.
It drives up costs for the farmer and drives down earnings for the worker.
We are upfront and transparent
So compared to agencies - there is "No Middleman" taking a slice.



Landline numbers are still used by most large serious organisations, including some very prominent, progressive, technically proficient multinationals – why? Because it gives them credibility. If its as easy as you suggest to get a landline, why not get one? While you’re doing this you should also put your face and name to the website – being anonymous won’t do much for your credibility either.

***We are not a large organisation but we are serious.
A landline would mean we need to employ someone extra to answer more calls. No need - all the members numbers are freely available on the site.
Farmers call the Farm workers directly.
Our site is getting in jobs from farmers and adding new members everyday so we are gaining credibility. It takes time but we're getting there.



RE Farming Independent, I’m not blind, I saw the four sentences on the side bar on the inside cover , but I was looking for “The recent article” as you say on your website. An article is usually longer than four sentences.

***Yes - the main point is that the Farming Independent picked up on our service. It wasn't their main story .....


I wasn’t saying that something new is bad, but I still fail to see any new benefits for me the farmer?

***Benefits For Farmers
1: Farmers can find workers on one website on a parish/county/skills basis.
2: Transparent - Farmers and Farm Workers are in direct contact with each other. Not relying on an agency.
3: No set rates as per other agencies so ability to drive down costs.
4: No middleman taking an hourly cut - drives down costs for farmers.


Look at it this way, if you went on Dragon’s Den looking for investment, and ignored/completely refuted the points I have raised, do you think they would invest?

***More likely they would invest if I ignored your points 100% I'd say.
Only messing - our business is getting in jobs from Farmers and adding new members - its not easy but we're making progress.
I've never found any easy business - they don't exist I guess.

All the best.

IndianJoe

This service may be a win-win for farmers and farm workers. Can't see a downside.
Me thinks some of the knockers here have a vested interest in FRS

sea12

IndianJoe wrote: »

This service may be a win-win for farmers and farm workers. Can't see a downside.
Me thinks some of the knockers here have a vested interest in FRS

Interesting First Quote!

Casinoking

IndianJoe wrote: »

This service may be a win-win for farmers and farm workers. Can't see a downside.
Me thinks some of the knockers here have a vested interest in FRS

Interesting username too, I wonder will "JohnWayne" ride into town tomorrow to diffuse the situation?!

charityboy

IndianJoe wrote: »

This service may be a win-win for farmers and farm workers. Can't see a downside.
Me thinks some of the knockers here have a vested interest in FRS

i have no vested interest with frs , they are on the go a good few years ,if you cant see the downside i would be weary of hiring you to look after my cattle as i feel you might miss a few standing behind a tree

6480

it still looks dodgy

Cowboyfarmer

Casinoking wrote: »

Interesting username too, I wonder will "JohnWayne" ride into town tomorrow to diffuse the situation?!

Oxford Dictionary:
cowboy (cow¦boy)


Pronunciation: /ˈkaʊbɔɪ/
noun

• 1(especially in the western US) a man who herds and tends cattle, performing much of his work on horseback.

If you replace "horseback" with "quad bike" you describe many Irish dairy farmers, Cowboy is not always used in a derogatory fashion, but "Cowman" does not roll off the tongue as easily.

As for having a vested interest, of course I have, every farmer who is a member of FRS does and unashamedly so. Same goes for members of Co-op marts, dairy co-ops, housing co-ops etc. We are not merely customers, we are owners and controllers of our own destinies. Many of us were farm workers within FRS in the past and have gone on to become farmers in our own right. Many of you will be too young to remember life before a relief service - some workers were taken advantage of by unscrupulous farmers and vice versa, some areas had no available workers. Some areas had only 1 worker in an area, so come all-Ireland day only a couple of guys got a milker. It was all very casual, so it was hard to get a guy, hard to keep track of hours etc so disagreements were common, invoices and insurances were non-existent etc. Also if a farmer got injured it was hard to get a guy in regularly for a few hours a day. Thats why informal milking groups were formed by farmers and thats why they were formalised into the farm relief structure.

Call it vested interested but as far as I'm concerned the co-operative movement is one of the main reasons why our population of dairy farmers has not yet been completely decimated like the UK. I think the stronger the co-ops we have the stronger the farmers we have. The more we give our money to profit-focused outsiders the more I feel we'll regret it in the long run. Did I mention 2012 is the year of the Co-op? Do any fellow farmers agree with me that co-ops are now more than ever important to us?

Dazzler88

cbkk wrote: »

So compared to agencies - there is "No Middleman" taking a slice.

If their is no middleman,what about John Fitzgerald who is sub contracting work on the Dairy Farm.

cbkk wrote: »

Transparent - Farmers and Farm Workers are in direct contact with each other. Not relying on an agency.

You say your site is transparent but yet you don't tell us how many farmers use you in each parish.Im not asking you to name the farmers but why not put on your site eg. 5 farmers in Billygobackwards need help. That would entice people to join. If I give you €30 of my money tomorrow,what guarantee can you give me that I will get work?

cbkk

Dazzler88 wrote: »

If their is no middleman,what about John Fitzgerald who is sub contracting work on the Dairy Farm.

**OK fair enough - all work so far seems to be direct though without any
sub-contracting that we're aware of. But we'll monitor this.

You say your site is transparent but yet you don't tell us how many farmers use you in each parish.Im not asking you to name the farmers but why not put on your site eg. 5 farmers in Billygobackwards need help. That would entice people to join.

**We have no idea how many farmers use our service in each parish as in the majority of cases they contact the members directly.
When we get calls from farmers who do not use the online facility, then we provide the details to the suitable members by area and by skills/experience.
By transparent we mean that the farmer can see the profile of each member and can choose who to contact.
Both parties can negotiate terms themselves.
Fairly transparent I would have thought.
Farmer's so far do not want their details on the website so that is not a runner. Can't put up somebody's details without their permission.
But we'll see if we can find some sort of middle way.



If I give you €30 of my money tomorrow,what guarantee can you give me that I will get work?

** Absolutely no guarantee as I said in a previous post.
We increase the chances of a member getting work.
The last time work was guaranteed like that I think it was called
the Soviet Union. We're not going to try that model again.

All the best.

Dazzler88

cbkk wrote: »

** Absolutely no guarantee as I said in a previous post.
We increase the chances of a member getting work.
The last time work was guaranteed like that I think it was called
the Soviet Union. We're not going to try that model again.

All the best.

I take on-board the points you have made.If anything this thread has got you some publicity.:p Best of luck with the site.

Rollant46

it looks aful like farm ads that site that was running a while bk nt too sure whether it is now or not but the look the exact same.