Best time for training ,before or after work ?

Wheely GR8

Hello ,I got a road bike last saturday and I've done near 200km on it already. I haven't been cycling for about three weeks ,so 200km has me a little tired already

Just wondering if people find training easier to do in the morning say at 5.30am or after they finish work ,say at 7pm ?
I'm absolutely wrecked and I'm not sure if it's because I'm heading out too early or just because of the lack of training ?

Beasty

Moved from training logs sub-forum

Beasty

It's much easier in the evening when your body is benefiting from a day of activity, and should be properly fueled

I certainly find my evening commute is much easier than the morning one, and that's borne out by my power records - I'm normally putting out at least 10% more in the evening

Having said that you're not doing yourself any harm training in the morning as well - your body will get used to it. You will definitely benefit from a decent warm-up (and breakfast, although I don't eat until I get to work - I will if I'm racing in the morning though)

Raam

I've done turbo sessions in the morning before work and they are just awful as I still feel half asleep. I much prefer evening work outs on work days.

Dubba

I like lunchtime spins during the winter - brighter and warmer.
The evenings are beginning to stretch tho. :cool:

kumate_champ07

depends on the job, if its heavy manual work I'd try do a session in the morning but get up earlier than usual so you have more time to wake up properly and prepare.

i worked on building sites and unless you train immediately after work you'll get hit with exhaustion a few hrs later and just want to stay at home/fall asleep.

kumate_champ07

(swimmers do it so it can be done)

Plastik

Evenings for me.

Raymzor

I dont find any difference in overall performance but find im more tired in the evening after work-its also uphill! I feel better after a morning workout. it keeps me relaxed for the day! some research suggests you will burn more fat in the morning but this maybe related to the lack of food!

Wheely GR8

Thanks for the repllies ,tried to reply last night but I was too tired :S

For the next few months I need to try and loose more weight and then plan something cycling related ,either a race or a tour. It's hard to know when the fitness isn't there.

I was thinking during the week maybe trying high intensity 90minutes on monday eve ,tuesday morn ,tuesday eve . wed eve break . ,thursday eve ,fri morn , fri eve .
Then long lesurely cycles 100km+ sat and sunday. (depending on energy)

Obviously the weather will interfere with this ,so I may need to buy a turbo trainer. Not sure I have the will for one yet though.

What do you lads think ?

smacl

I went to early circuit training / boot camp classes all last year and found them great. A good balanced workout and a nice crowd made it much more doable. The downside was that I'd be heading back to bed earlier (~10pm) and was living in a slightly different time zone to my wife and kids. These days I'm on the turbo nights that I'm not out training, which is a bit joyless by comparison to working out with a group but good apart from that. I'd also do a bit of kettle bell training to balance the work load a bit. As soon as the evenings get brighter, I'll ditch the turbo and hit the hills after work. Looking forward to that already.

From a weight control point of view, evenings work better for me, mostly because if I train in the mornings I tend to start my evening after work with a cold can from the fridge. Down about 3kg from the start of the month.

What do you lads think ?

90 minutes outdoors is great, 90 minutes on the turbo is a pain in the hole. Any way you cut it, two 90 minute sessions each work day is a whole lot of work, and may be difficult to sustain. I'd also get one full rest day in there somewhere. I usually do an hour four days a week, 200w avg. Works out at about 740 Kcals for me, and a big pool of sweat on the ground. I drink tea instead of beer in the evenings for about the same number of calories on the other side of the equation. One night a week I'd have a longer tougher work out, and then one long but leisurely spin at the weekend. Beers Friday and/or Saturday.

Lumen

Early is physically harder but logistically easier.

rich.d.berry

I commute just over 10km and find that my morning commute is tougher. The prevailing winds do tend to be against me in the mornings which does contribute, but even on calm days I go better in the afternoons.

Is commuting by bicycle an option for you? Even 2 or 3 days a week makes a big difference in your fitness, stamina and weight loss. Last April I started cycle commuting on Tuesdays and Thursdays. When this got easier (about a month) I went to Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. After about another month I bit the bullet and did 5 days a week.

Initially I found that the weekly commute was all I could handle, weekend spins were not on my agenda, but after another couple of months I started getting out on a Saturday or Sunday for 25 - 30 km spins. I've now built up my Saturday spins to 50 km + (I try to limit it to 2 hours) and keep Sunday as a rest day. I'm considering adding an extra half hour to my spin starting now in February and then aiming for 3 hours in March. The major limiting factor is that I have a dodgy left knee and if I work it too hard then I end up limping for the next week, so I have to be very careful to stay within my limits or else I lose out on training when I injure myself.

My weight is down from 107 kg, when I started, to my current weight of 94 kg. I've lost the double chin, my waist has reduced by 5 inches and I have stopped buying XL sizes and now wear L. This does not tell the whole story though because my muscle mass has increased. I reckon that I've lost about 20kg of fat and gained about 3kg of muscle.

It sounds like you'd enjoy the Kare Tour de Foothills on 15th of April. There's a 50km and 100km option for €25 entrance. It seems like good craic and a number of boardsies were on the last one. The organisers state that it's not a race, but it seems like there are a number who do compete. So should cater for all levels of fitness and ability.

Pawwed Rig

I tend to find it hard to sleep after a heavy cardio workout in the evening whereas if I do it in the morning, while it is tougher, I get an energy boost for the day which allows me to perform better at work.

Tenzor07

Wheely GR8 wrote: »

I was thinking during the week maybe trying high intensity 90minutes on monday eve ,tuesday morn ,tuesday eve . wed eve break . ,thursday eve ,fri morn , fri eve .
Then long lesurely cycles 100km+ sat and sunday. (depending on energy)


What do you lads think ?

I'm thinking that unless you are working from a very strong level of base fitness that your training schedule won't last more than a week at best!

Jawgap

I definitely prefer the mornings - especially over the next few months as I quite enjoy cycling when dawn is breaking. I find setting off in the dark and it getting brighter, easier to deal with than setting off when it's bright and finishing in the dark.

Plus, early morning departures make for much quieter roads, in my experience.

However, following Beasty's post I checked my own stats and based purely on speed and times, rather than power, I note that my 'evening' times are notably faster - but that could just be me wanting to get home for dinner.......

Paul Kiernan

Beasty wrote: »

although I don't eat until I get to work

Beasty wrote: »

I certainly find my evening commute is much easier than the morning one

Ahem, are these related:)?

Jawgap

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Ahem, are these related:)?

Actually, on reflection the one thing I didn't consider when posting was the wind - I commute in a N-S direction and given the wind blows mostly from the SW that probably explains the difference in times between morning and evening:o

Beasty

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Ahem, are these related:)?

No. My commute is 40-50 minutes. I have enough "in store" to keep me going for well over an hour

Indeed, I sometimes ride the Manchester velodrome at 8.00am (did it yesterday actually), and have managed my best average speed for the hour (over 40kph) at that time (on an empty stomach)

Now if we were talking 2 hours or more then lack of fuel would definitely be an issue

Jawgap, you are definitely right about the impact of the mainly SWesterly wind, but as I said previously power records show quite clearly to me that it take some time to get "up to speed" in the morning.

In fact, what I tend to find is that after an initial effort up a hill, my average power goes down while I am still warming up, but by the final 10-15 minutes I am able to put out sustained power equivalent to my evening commutes. It is really to do with the body getting back into the physical routine following sleep

Raam

Wheely GR8 wrote: »

Thanks for the repllies ,tried to reply last night but I was too tired :S

For the next few months I need to try and loose more weight and then plan something cycling related ,either a race or a tour. It's hard to know when the fitness isn't there.

I was thinking during the week maybe trying high intensity 90minutes on monday eve ,tuesday morn ,tuesday eve . wed eve break . ,thursday eve ,fri morn , fri eve .
Then long lesurely cycles 100km+ sat and sunday. (depending on energy)

Obviously the weather will interfere with this ,so I may need to buy a turbo trainer. Not sure I have the will for one yet though.

What do you lads think ?

Sounds like a 12+ hour training week. That's a lot.

Wheely GR8

The replies are food for thought ,I think the morning thing is definetly better for loosing weight ,but at the expense of over doing it if the reserves are used up.
I feel great no matter when I go out on the bike ,but I always need a short while to recoup after. Thats what might be getting me in the morning.

Wheely GR8

Raam wrote: »

Sounds like a 12+ hour training week. That's a lot.

Thats why I'm posting here ,I don't really know what to expect of myself ,don't want to over do it.

smacl

Beasty wrote: »

Indeed, I sometimes ride the Manchester velodrome at 8.00am (did it yesterday actually), and have managed my best average speed for the hour (over 40kph) at that time (on an empty stomach)

Fair play to you, don't even think I could manage that on a moped. Out of interest what's your average power output and cadence on that run. I never used to look at stats, but since the new turbo has them on screen all the time I've become a bit hooked and am wondering what's a reasonable work rate. I'm 84kg, 6ft, 45yrs and just about able maintain 200w for an hour.

Paul Kiernan

Beasty wrote: »

No. My commute is 40-50 minutes. I have enough "in store" to keep me going for well over an hour

Is it not true that your metabolism slows down during the night and by morning your blood glucose level is at it's lowest. By eating something you "kick-start" the conversion of stored carbohydrates into glucose. I have always believed that by exercising before eating the body "presumes" it is being starved and reacts by "protecting" itself by slowing down the metabolism?

Lumen

Wheely GR8 wrote: »

Thats why I'm posting here ,I don't really know what to expect of myself ,don't want to over do it.

Putting aside for a moment the fact that we're supposed to be doing this for pleasure, and focusing on effectiveness of "training"...

In my experience it is possible to build the performance to race (albeit at a basic level, e.g. club semi-limit races and A4) on less than 6 hours a week, e.g. two 90 minute high-intensity sessions and one longer ride (3 hours).

Bearing in mind this is still January and you're not preparing for the Ras, I'd question what the extra 6 hours is intended to achieve.

From a non-racing perspective 1000km a month (7-9 hours a week) is the point at which I've felt sportively awesome and comfortable doing 100-150km rides.

Jawgap

there is an idea that training in a fasted state promotes stamina in endurance sports such as cycling.

This study:-

Effects of caloric restriction and overnight fasting on cycling endurance performance.

....seems to suggest that overnight fasting has no impact.

their conclusion was that "exercising after fasting overnight can improve a cyclist's PWR without compromising endurance cycling performance."

However, it might be worth noting that the subjects were put on restricted calories before the testing phase began and there doesn't seem to be any mention of a control group.

I suppose what's right for one person, may not suit another.

studiorat

Beasty wrote: »

No. My commute is 40-50 minutes. I have enough "in store" to keep me going for well over an hour

If it's not too much of a personal question. What do you usually eat before the morning run?

I find it hard to eat anything more than coffee before 10.30 or 11.00. I'm starting a similar distance time commute next week.

morana

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Is it not true that your metabolism slows down during the night and by morning your blood glucose level is at it's lowest. By eating something you "kick-start" the conversion of stored carbohydrates into glucose. I have always believed that by exercising before eating the body "presumes" it is being starved and reacts by "protecting" itself by slowing down the metabolism?

Surely starvation takes more than 2 hours. I guess if you wanted to ride a 25 tt this way would cause you an issue but a long steady endurance ride its fine (for weight loss)

In fact that has been my routine last year and this year for weight loss. ride on an empty stomach for 2 hours and then start to eat. It worked very well last year and it better work this year because I wintered well.

Lumen

morana wrote: »

ride on an empty stomach for 2 hours and then start to eat

Isn't the toast really cold by then?

Wheely GR8

Lumen wrote: »

Putting aside for a moment the fact that we're supposed to be doing this for pleasure, and focusing on effectiveness of "training"...

In my experience it is possible to build the performance to race (albeit at a basic level, e.g. club semi-limit races and A4) on less than 6 hours a week, e.g. two 90 minute high-intensity sessions and one longer ride (3 hours).

Bearing in mind this is still January and you're not preparing for the Ras, I'd question what the extra 6 hours is intended to achieve.

From a non-racing perspective 1000km a month (7-9 hours a week) is the point at which I've felt sportively awesome and comfortable doing 100-150km rides.

Im on my phone ,so excuse the space in replies

I love cycling and at the moment I'm trying my best to loose weight I don't need. Im 100kg and 5'8'' ,I should be about 80kg and even at that Id be overweight.
Im not fit at the moment and my only goal is to feel fit ,after that it's taking advantage of the fitness and entering races ,purely becuase I'd be able to participate.

Training at the moment for is purely at fat burning exercise ,which is hard when the job is manual aswell.

smacl

It sounds like you're trying to lose weight primarily through exercise, whereas a combination of changing your eating habits and adding a smaller amount of exercise is going to be much easier. Out of interest, how many hours a week are you currently training?

NeedMoreGears

I tend to prefer the evening because I am a lot more awake and I head northwards so I have the wind with me a bit more. It also seems to be warmer at 18:00 than 07:00.

In a typical week I'd spend around 12 hours on the bike. 9-10 commuting with a longer spin at the weekend. I find it can be difficult to balance "training" vs simpy going to and from work. I don't want to be too wrecked on Friday so that I am unable to get into a decent spin on the Sunday. But I would like to take advantage of the commute itself. It's very easy just to plod along if you're doing it every day.

At this stage I tend to take it quite easy on Monday and Friday and try use the mid week for some intervals or even simply a sustained fast spin home. I generally don't get out on Saturday.

Anybody any thoughts on getting the mix right for someone whose ambitions only extend to doing sportives a bit quicker than last year

Tenzor07

Wheely GR8 wrote: »

I love cycling and at the moment I'm trying my best to loose weight I don't need. Im 100kg and 5'8'' ,I should be about 80kg and even at that Id be overweight.

Just go out and enjoy being on your bike, dont worry about creating mad 12 hour weekly training plans, do a couple of hours every other day at a reasonable pace.. And most importantly watch what you eat and drink...

Hit the gym when the weather is bad, or even when its good! Work on cross training and be more bike focussed when the weight comes down... Speak with your doctor before entering into this new training..

Most importantly, have fun!!

Wheely GR8

I am on a good diet ,it got me from 19 stone to about 15.5 stone since august last. But since christmas I put on a half stone primarily because I got fed up of the weather and my old bike.
Last week I got me first road bike ,so I'm as determine as ever to keep it going ,the new bike is brilliant even if its an old alu model ,it will serve me well.

Tenzor07

Wheely GR8 wrote: »

Last week I got me first road bike ,so I'm as determine as ever to keep it going ,the new bike is brilliant even if its an old alu model ,it will serve me well.

Great, well have fun with the new bike and hit the gym too, do a spin class, make your focus on the weekend spins when its bright and you have more time, do a cycle where you can stop half-way for a coffee etc...... Once your weight is down and general fitness is up you will enjoy it even more...

Best of luck!

Raam

I guess it all depends on how much time you have available for training. If you have kids, I can imagine it is more difficult to get out at the weekends.

Do you have an option to cycle to work? If you do, and if the distance is, say, 10km or so, then you could factor that in to any training.

Too many morning and evening training sessions could leave you drained and unmotivated. The lure of cycling should be that it is enjoyable and something that you look forward to doing. Just be careful that you don't see it as a chore. I guess what I am saying is, build it up bit by bit, walk before you run etc.

Good luck with it

Beasty

smacl wrote: »

Fair play to you, don't even think I could manage that on a moped. Out of interest what's your average power output and cadence on that run. I never used to look at stats, but since the new turbo has them on screen all the time I've become a bit hooked and am wondering what's a reasonable work rate. I'm 84kg, 6ft, 45yrs and just about able maintain 200w for an hour.

Don't have all the stats to hand, and there's no PM on the track bike. In addition there was the benefit of some drafting that morning.

Having said that, my power output was probably around 260-290w based on what I have done on the road bikes. I do know average speed was 40.3kph and average cadence around 93 (but I am a bit of a grinder)

BTW I'm a bit heavier, a bit taller and a bit older than you ...;)

Wheely GR8

Thanks for the replies ,it's easy to get too heavy when your my weight ,I'll try and enjoy it more