Audi A4 1.8T with 95,000 miles on the clock. A good idea?

antiskeptic

As a life long motorcyclist I'm used to near-zero motoriing maintenance costs. A few years in a given-to-me--for-free Escort has seen me firmly converted to cars - not least because the Escort too was cheap as chips to maintain (€60 for a pair of front discs + pads, €30 quid for a secondhand radiator)

I've always had a eye for the B6 A4 shape though and liked it when I drove it. And I'm due a lift from the bottom-of-the-barrel motoring I do now.

A mate has offered his Audi 1.8T to me at £500 below average market price. I've also got decent insight into it's history since it came to him from his brother-in-law. I'd appreciate comments on the wisdom of purchasing it (given my desire to continue in the low cost vein above). This with a view to getting say 4 years out of it.

Q: What level of repairs can I expect to encounter from now on?

Q: What kind of mpg for the motorway leg of my mileage?

Q: One rep I know says they're hard on tyres. Is this the case?


Details

Year: 2003

Mileage: 95,000

Repairs history: air flow meter, camshaft sensor, thermostat switch, cambelt done at 60K or so.

Other maintenance: new recent battery, regular oil changes from new, Audi serviced for first 5 years, new tyres.

Planned mileage: approx 20,000 year (15,000 motorway, 5,000 urban)

Driving style: gentle enough.

Any comments or insight would be welcome..

Ta in advance.

mickdw

antiskeptic wrote: »

regular oil changes from new

This is the critical point. These engines must have proper oil and regularily.

Massive benefit in buying this car with known history imo - As long as they were putting the right oil in it.

If everything is right with the car and its not lowered or messed with, it shouldnt have a tyre issue.

Id say 35 mpg. Depending on car purchase cost comparisons, you would possibly be better in a diesel.

Even with general maintenance items, it will come in significantly more expensive than the old escort but Im not saying its difficult to maintain.

Leonard Hofstadter

If you're doing 20,000 miles a year you'd be better off with a diesel.

Unfortunately the A4 TDI has become very popular with shall we say the kind of people who used to own Toyota Glanzas, so trying to find a clean unabused diesel will be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

The 1.8T is a super reliable engine provided the oil has been changed on time every time and with the correct spec, and is so much quieter than the diesel too, so on balance it's probably worth going for it if you like it, but be prepared to be spending a good lot of money on fuel.

antiskeptic

mickdw wrote: »

This is the critical point. These engines must have proper oil and regularily.

Massive benefit in buying this car with known history imo - As long as they were putting the right oil in it.

If everything is right with the car and its not lowered or messed with, it shouldnt have a tyre issue.

Id say 35 mpg. Depending on car purchase cost comparisons, you would possibly be better in a diesel.

Even with general maintenance items, it will come in significantly more expensive than the old escort but Im not saying its difficult to maintain.

Thanks for that.

It hasn't been messed with and I gather the two post-audi-service owners took care in the proper fashion on oil / frequency of change.

How would it rate maintenance wise generally compared to the best out there? At these kind of mileages and counting.. that is.

Note: it's a fancy to have a 1.8T - not a burning desire. Would it be better to forget this and concentrate on something more certain to be maintenance-lo-cost . A 50,000 mile Focus or something equally dull.

antiskeptic

captainspeed wrote: »

If you're doing 20,000 miles a year you'd be better off with a diesel.

So I'm gathering.

Unfortunately the A4 TDI has become very popular with shall we say the kind of people who used to own Toyota Glanzas, so trying to find a clean unabused diesel will be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

I would have thought the Glanza type wouldn't be seen dead in an A4 diesel. Then again, I wouldn't have seen me, a Yamaha 1000 rider in an Escort either. At least, not that kind of Escort.

The 1.8T is a super reliable engine provided the oil has been changed on time every time and with the correct spec, and is so much quieter than the diesel too, so on balance it's probably worth going for it if you like it, but be prepared to be spending a good lot of money on fuel.

Super reliable is good! What kind of mileage should I be expecting from a petrol engine these days though (assuming it remains looked after).

What about the rest of the car in terms of running costs. Gearbox, clutch, chassis componants, electrics. I'm reasonably handy and don't mind getting stuck in occasionally. But I don't fancy regular big ticket items as par for the advancing-mileage course.

zizou_

I had a 2003 one of these for about 4 years - nice car to drive and gives good mpg on the motorway. Not so good in town.

Things to watch out for are oil sludge causing low oil pressure and will write engine off. I think audi changed to a larger oil filter to avoid this - in addition regular oil changes with proper synthetic oil are a must. Also need to check that the water pump was changed with the timing belt. I found out the hard way when the pump failed at 60k miles on the M7 - big bill followed The climate control unit can also give trouble.

Overall was fairly reliable - not great but not awful either.

Mate of mine has a 2001 one (~100k miles) and has had endless trouble - coil packs, new turbo, head gasket failure, abs module etc etc.

PauloMN

Have 91k miles on mine, '03 1.8T also. I'd be surprised if the coils haven't been done by now - all 4 of mine have been replaced at this stage, but they are a DIY fix if you can get your hands on an engine code reader.

Since I bought mine with around 50k miles on it, apart from the 4 x coils, mine has had:

- rocker cover gasket replaced
- battery replaced
- knock sensor replaced
- all pads and front discs
- wiper linkeage replaced (it seized up)
- timing belt/water pump at 60k

I do the oil and filter changes myself, religiously every 10k. I use the VAG approved Halfords synthetic 5W/30 which is about half the price of the Mobil VAG stuff. Made the mistake once of buying 5 litres of Mobil from an Audi dealer... never again... €100! :eek: :mad: Sludging is common when cheaper oils are used and not replaced on time, so oil quality and regular changes are half the battle with this engine.

Overall not bad in terms of what's gone wrong, but I'm expecting to spend a few more quid on it as it gets to 100k and beyond assuming I decide to keep it.

Do not be surpised to see these engines use a little oil, you might have to put in a half litre every couple of thousand miles. This is perfectly normal - don't know why for these engines but the manual tells you so anyway. Keep a half litre in the boot as it's hard enough to get the oil in local filling stations, and if you do, they charge a fortune for it.

I'm getting around 38mpg with mine, but I've generally a light foot and my commute to work is 75% cruising speed. Around town I'd guess between 25 and 30mpg realistically.

It's a lovely comfortable car, and the 1.8 engine is no slouch either at 163bhp. I'm very happy with mine, the quality is sublime and even at 9 years old is a much nicer place to sit than most of the brand new Fords/Nissans etc..

Keep a few quid for when things go wrong and you'll be sorted, the B6 is a decent car for little cash these days.

mathepac

I think all the A4 1.8Ts are 4WD, hence hardish on tyres, but grippy as hell and you can't have it both ways unfortunately. I'm trying to remember now but if the car is an S-line it will have the firmer, lowered suspension, the SE IIRC has softer suspension (S-line / SE, etc are Audi-speak for finish / equipment levels.

I'd echo the caution about the water-pump, but I'd also suggest you examine the maintenance records carefully. Maintenance schedules for VAG cars with timing-belts, plastic-impellered water-pumps, etc are in miles travelled or years since last change. Your 2003 should now be on its 3rd timing-belt, auxilliary belts and water-pump, unless I miss my guess.

Motor-factors' stuff is good for these cars, Sachs clutches, ATE brake discs, Pagid brake-pads, etc - all top quality (Audi re-badge their stuff as their own) but cheaper than main-dealer prices. A word of warning : use only VW coolant in that engine, G12++, or you may have serious corrosion issues. If it's fitted with heated window-washer jets, use only VW washer-fluid or the jets may block.

If treated well that bus should last at least another 100 / 150k miles of enjoyable motoring.

Can you check the maintenance book regarding the specific oil? It's not enough to put fully synthetic in there, it must comply with the VW oil spec for that engine. You'll see codes like "VW 505 00" or "VW 507 00" or "VW 505 01" on oil tins you'll need to jnow exactly which one is for your car.

Is she 5-speed or 6-speed? The latter had a bit of a bad reputation in their early guises but were swapped by Audi UK under warranty. Check if yours was done.

HTH. Happy motoring (oh and don't skimp on the tyres) Any other specific questions, check back and we'll try and dredge the memory / tech vaults for answers for you (and then go off-topic arguing amongst ourselves )

zizou_

The 1.8T was available in 2wd and quattro. IIRC the irish B6 wasn't offered in S-line spec.

mathepac

zizou_ wrote: »

The 1.8T was available in 2wd and quattro. IIRC the irish B6 wasn't offered in S-line spec.

Sounds like car is a UK import "£500 below average market price" in OP.

PauloMN

Most 1.8T here are not Quattro I would guess, most in the UK probably are.

As for oil, here's what you want:
http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_498805_langId_-1_categoryId_212419

€52, and I usually get 10% off that - not bad for 5L of VAG approved oil.

pippip

I have a 02 1.8T with 105k on the clock.

I do about 12-14k miles a year

I estimate I'll have about 18K miles out of my front tyres on this set. I don't take it easy on them either. 2wd irish model. The 1.8T have sport suspension which has been described as quite firm on low profiles but I have 205 55 R16 and I find it comfortable.

If you want to improve the handling you can diy fit an RS4 rear anti roll bar for about €110 in parts (from Audi). The front ones are the same. Difference is suppose to be amazing, just haven't had the time or cash to take it on myself.

On long motorway cruising I get between 37-40 mpg dependent on conditions, in town I get mid 20's. I do 50/50 of each.

I did my timing belt on 65k miles although I know Audi's latest memo is 75k miles or 5 years on this model revised down from higher mileage.

Oil change every 6k miles with fully synthetic and you won't have the sludge issue. If for any reason you do get the sump dropped get the gauze changed. One ex-Audi mechanic I had advised me to put on a Diesel (larger) oil filter to assist in preventing the problem cannot verify this but I do.

Best of luck!

VeVeX

PauloMN wrote: »

Most 1.8T here are not Quattro I would guess, most in the UK probably are.

As for oil, here's what you want:
http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_498805_langId_-1_categoryId_212419

€52, and I usually get 10% off that - not bad for 5L of VAG approved oil.

Its not VAG approved it mearly conforms to VW specifications.

You can buy a 5L of Quantum 5w-30 in your local VW dealer for about the same as you're paying for the Halfords brand.

PauloMN

VeVeX wrote: »

Its not VAG approved it mearly conforms to VW specifications.

You can buy a 5L of Quantum 5w-30 in your local VW dealer for about the same as you're paying for the Halfords brand.

Ok, so "VAG approved" was a bad choice of words, but I'm sure the point I was making was understood by everyone. The Halfords oil I use meets the relevant VAG specifications. And there's nothing "merely" about it - it doesn't matter what brand it is (to me anyway), the bottom line is that it has to meet the specs for me to use it, which it does.

My VW dealer had no suitable oil anywhere near the price I can get it for in Halfords with my discount.

antiskeptic

zizou_ wrote: »

I had a 2003 one of these for about 4 years - nice car to drive and gives good mpg on the motorway. Not so good in town.

What would be 'good' on the motorwa? With a generally gentle foot that is..

Things to watch out for are oil sludge causing low oil pressure and will write engine off. I think audi changed to a larger oil filter to avoid this - in addition regular oil changes with proper synthetic oil are a must. Also need to check that the water pump was changed with the timing belt. I found out the hard way when the pump failed at 60k miles on the M7 - big bill followed The climate control unit can also give trouble.

I know the history and apparently, receipts for everything ever done to it are in the glove compartment. So I'll check..

Overall was fairly reliable - not great but not awful either.

Any opinion on what mileage could be reasonably be expected to be racked up from now - bearin in mind that motorway miles are softer miles on a car?

antiskeptic

PauloMN wrote: »

- rocker cover gasket replaced
- battery replaced
- knock sensor replaced
- all pads and front discs
- wiper linkeage replaced (it seized up)
- timing belt/water pump at 60k

Not bad. Looks like the timing belt/pump is due shortly on the one I'm thinking of. I'd be planning on doing this kind of maintenance myself. On the Escort this kind of work is a doddle and parts are cheap

What's the A4 like in this regard?

I do the oil and filter changes myself, religiously every 10k. I use the VAG approved Halfords synthetic 5W/30 which is about half the price of the Mobil VAG stuff. Made the mistake once of buying 5 litres of Mobil from an Audi dealer... never again... €100! :eek: :mad: Sludging is common when cheaper oils are used and not replaced on time, so oil quality and regular changes are half the battle with this engine.

Noted.

Do not be surpised to see these engines use a little oil, you might have to put in a half litre every couple of thousand miles. This is perfectly normal - don't know why for these engines but the manual tells you so anyway. Keep a half litre in the boot as it's hard enough to get the oil in local filling stations, and if you do, they charge a fortune for it.

Not since my 2 stroke days. Progress indeed..

I'm getting around 38mpg with mine, but I've generally a light foot and my commute to work is 75% cruising speed. Around town I'd guess between 25 and 30mpg realistically.

Mines mainly motorway. And with a light foot. So perhaps 40mph. Which is about what I'm getting from the 'scort.

It's a lovely comfortable car, and the 1.8 engine is no slouch either at 163bhp. I'm very happy with mine, the quality is sublime and even at 9 years old is a much nicer place to sit than most of the brand new Fords/Nissans etc..

Keep a few quid for when things go wrong and you'll be sorted, the B6 is a decent car for little cash these days.

That's kind of what I was figuring. I'd get it for probably 4k and so long as it didn't spill it's guts in any significant way, I might get another 4 years/70k miles out

antiskeptic

mathepac wrote: »

I think all the A4 1.8Ts are 4WD, hence hardish on tyres, but grippy as hell and you can't have it both ways unfortunately. I'm trying to remember now but if the car is an S-line it will have the firmer, lowered suspension, the SE IIRC has softer suspension (S-line / SE, etc are Audi-speak for finish / equipment levels.

I gather it's a 2wd. So I can still sling it around in the snow. That was the joy of the Escort - not having to give a monkeys if I overcooked it into a kerb in the snow.

I'd echo the caution about the water-pump, but I'd also suggest you examine the maintenance records carefully. Maintenance schedules for VAG cars with timing-belts, plastic-impellered water-pumps, etc are in miles travelled or years since last change. Your 2003 should now be on its 3rd timing-belt, auxilliary belts and water-pump, unless I miss my guess.

It's due mileage-wise so I'd probably just go ahead and replace them. I'd a belt go in the Escort soon after I got it (and put 4 tyres onto it). It cost 128 quid + a few hours that time. I don't suppose I'd get away that lucky on the 1.8T

Motor-factors' stuff is good for these cars, Sachs clutches, ATE brake discs, Pagid brake-pads, etc - all top quality (Audi re-badge their stuff as their own) but cheaper than main-dealer prices. A word of warning : use only VW coolant in that engine, G12++, or you may have serious corrosion issues. If it's fitted with heated window-washer jets, use only VW washer-fluid or the jets may block.

Thanks. Good to know cheap bits available as with the Escort.

If treated well that bus should last at least another 100 / 150k miles of enjoyable motoring.

I was hoping for something like that from it - there's not point in me spending real* money on a car only to rack up the miles I'm doing.

*remembering a long history of virtually no cost motoring. It'd be impossible for me to make the switch to depreciating a car at 3-5 grand a year

Can you check the maintenance book regarding the specific oil? It's not enough to put fully synthetic in there, it must comply with the VW oil spec for that engine. You'll see codes like "VW 505 00" or "VW 507 00" or "VW 505 01" on oil tins you'll need to jnow exactly which one is for your car.

I'll have a look but I'm not sure there's that level of detail.

Is she 5-speed or 6-speed? The latter had a bit of a bad reputation in their early guises but were swapped by Audi UK under warranty. Check if yours was done.

Good point. Dunno but will check

HTH. Happy motoring (oh and don't skimp on the tyres)

Why not? There's a new set on it costing 400 quid. Is that about what I should be budgetting?

Any other specific questions, check back and we'll try and dredge the memory / tech vaults for answers for you (and then go off-topic arguing amongst ourselves )

Thumbs up. Thanks for the insights.

antiskeptic

mathepac wrote: »

Sounds like car is a UK import "£500 below average market price" in OP.

It's Irish. A mates selling it to me and figures I'd knock something off asking so is doing same up front.

antiskeptic

pippip wrote: »

I have a 02 1.8T with 105k on the clock.

I do about 12-14k miles a year

Are you content to hang onto it for a few more years?

I estimate I'll have about 18K miles out of my front tyres on this set. I don't take it easy on them either. 2wd irish model. The 1.8T have sport suspension which has been described as quite firm on low profiles but I have 205 55 R16 and I find it comfortable.

I think there's normal tyres on this yoke. And at my age, I'll probably keep it that way. No middle aged crisis here.

If you want to improve the handling you can diy fit an RS4 rear anti roll bar for about €110 in parts (from Audi). The front ones are the same. Difference is suppose to be amazing, just haven't had the time or cash to take it on myself.

I drive an Escort which takes 2 minutes to settle back down after going over a speed bump. I don't envisage dissatisfaction with the standard set up.

On long motorway cruising I get between 37-40 mpg dependent on conditions, in town I get mid 20's. I do 50/50 of each.

Another vote for the ca. 40mpg on motorways (oh me of light foot)

Oil change every 6k miles with fully synthetic and you won't have the sludge issue. If for any reason you do get the sump dropped get the gauze changed. One ex-Audi mechanic I had advised me to put on a Diesel (larger) oil filter to assist in preventing the problem cannot verify this but I do.

Best of luck!

Thanks. Suppose there is sludge there. Is there a way of cleaning it out - isn't there detergent-oil you can use temporarily to clean engines?

pippip

Yeh I plan to hold onto it for at least 2 more years.

You can do an engine flush but a few people have said to me that you can end up with all the crap blocking the gauze and causing the same problem as the sludge.

antiskeptic

pippip wrote: »

Yeh I plan to hold onto it for at least 2 more years.

You can do an engine flush but a few people have said to me that you can end up with all the crap blocking the gauze and causing the same problem as the sludge.

Fair point - although I'd have thunk the detergent oil would be designed to dissolve sludge.

Perhaps you'd have to sign up for repeated oil drain > sump removal > gauze clean .. for the duration of the cleaning period.

Or is it a case of letting sleeping dogs lie?

pippip

It should only happen if the oil changes aren't done regularly otherwise there is no reason for it to occur. Really is one of those "only yourself to blame" moments.

You get a red oil can on the dash computer with three loud beeps. Just pull in immediately and get the sump dropped. If you stop driving straight way no damage should happen to the engine.

skelliser

diesel perspective

ive a 97 A4 1.9TDI with 230k miles on it. Over ten years of service history, oil changed every 6k miles, regular services and regular timing belt.

A friend of mine with an 2004 otavia tdi 1.9 said that the audi had way more pick up then his.

It eats the miles and loves motorway speeds. It is, like most diesels, **** around town tho.

The bad news is parts are way dearer then other cars. but im happy out with it.

im defo aiming to get to 300k! lol!

Heroditas

If the timing belt hasn't been done by now, it would be well worth having a look at it.
I used to have a 2003 1.8T A4 and at 61,000 miles the water pump failed. When the mechanic went in to replace the pump and timing belt, he said the belt was on its last legs and could have failed at any time. I had a lucky escape!

I also experienced the low oil pressure issue where it looked like the previous owner hadn't taken too much care of it.

Apart from that, one of the temperature sensors failed. They can be a bugger to replace.
The ignition coils were replaced too.
I also had to replace the fuel line because it was leaking.

All of this happened to me in the space of 4 months and I was so fed up, I got rid of the car!
There were also loud creaks starting to appear in the front control arms that required fixing.

I was just a bit unlucky but many of those issues apparently surface between 60k and 70k miles. If they've all been replaced, you'll be good to go for at least another 30k miles.

zizou_

antiskeptic wrote: »

What would be 'good' on the motorwa? With a generally gentle foot that is..

I had the auto version which had a long 6th gear - got about 40 taking it easy on the motorway - got about 25 around town.

antiskeptic wrote: »

Any opinion on what mileage could be reasonably be expected to be racked up from now - bearin in mind that motorway miles are softer miles on a car?

If you avoid the 2 main problems already mentioned you'll get plenty of time out of her. You're might have to get some fairly minor bits and pieces sorted (sensors etc) and it won't be as cheap to run as an old escort.

The main thing going for the car you're looking at is that you know the history and it's been well looked after. That would give me a bit of comfort that you'll knock a good few years out of it.

antiskeptic

OP here again.

-

So, I have a lend of it for a week to see what I think. Drives very nicely: very solid and tight - not at all showing it's mileage ( actually 108k vs. the earlier reported 95k).

Service book shows it was Audi-dealer serviced up to 88k miles (and my-mate-serviced after that) - which was reached way back in 2006, indicating perhaps that it was used on longer journeys in the main. A good sign.

Before I plump for it, I'd want it given the once over from someone familiar with the model. Are there any notable non-main dealer Audi mechanics around Dublin I could bring it to to get the inside track on it with? Someone whose good and walking you through the car and it's in's and out's.

Cheers..

Rowley Birkin QC

Did you end up buying the Audi OP?

I'm looking a 02 1.8T at the moment and I'm pretty tempted having brought it for a spin this evening.