Roisin Shortall wants you to pay more for your alcohol

guildofevil

Roisin Shortall, our esteemed minister for health, has been publicly expressing a lot of concern about your drinking. Apparently, cheap alcohol has caused you to lose the run of yourself and you are knocking it back far too much.

It seems that the supermarkets have taken advantage of the lifting of the groceries order in 2006 to start selling alcohol below cost, so obviously you and your friends, having no self control or common sense and being accustomed to buying all the alcohol you can afford and knocking it back in an orgy drunkenness and vomiting (probably in front of the children) have been buying more and more, as it has become cheaper and cheaper. That is the message Roisin seems to be peddling.

So why isn't she beating us over the head with statistics on how much more we are drinking since the evil supermarkets started selling us cheap booze? She has per capita consumption stats to compare our drinking with drinking in other countries, so why isn't she telling us how much more we are drinking since the advent of below cost selling?

Answer: Because we are drinking less, not more.

Alcohol sales data from a preachy but informative Oireachtas report shows a peak in alcohol sales in 2002 and a decline since then. This decline in alcohol sales has continued despite the introduction of below cost selling in 2006.

So if we are actually buying less alcohol, why does Roisin want to increase the price? Why tinker with a trend that is heading in the right direction? Could it be just another grab for your money by our cash strapped government disguised as concern for your out of control drinking?

More: Alcohol Taxation and the Republic of Ireland

Auvers

guildofevil wrote: »

So if we are actually buying less alcohol, why does Roisin want to increase the price?

to help out the poor ailing publicans

that is all

ronaneire

guildofevil wrote: »

Roisin Shortall, our esteemed minister for health

Minister of State, Department of Health with responsibility for Primary Care

http://www.labour.ie/roisinshortall

So does she think it is her primary responsibility to stop the selling of cheep drink.

Anything but to get as much money out of people.

What next I ask.

sbsquarepants

Auvers wrote: »

to help out the poor ailing publicans

that is all

You auld cynic, it's for the children.....THE CHILDREN!!

You have to laugh at the "it's to stop binge drinking nonsnense" as if people binge drink because it's cheap. I was in spain a while back and the barman was actually cleaning the poolside tables with vodka - that's how cheap it is over there. Why aren't there millions of spaniards rolling in the gutter?
I can only assume it's because people don't just drink because it's cheap Rosín, but that's just my thoughts on the matter, what do i know!

Lapsed Catholic

This smacks of the publicans lobby trying to encourage people to stop drinking at home and go back to the pub.

Slightly off topic but now they don't want you buying alcohol in supermarkets anymore.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tds-call-for-ban-on-sale-of-booze-in-supermarkets-2998927.html

A TOTAL ban on the sale of alcohol in supermarkets, convenience shops and petrol stations is among proposals to tackle the country's drinking problem.

Children are now starting to drink at an average age of 14 compared to 16 just a decade ago, and a Dail committee said a radical overhaul is needed to change how alcohol is perceived, sold and marketed.

The Joint Committee on Health and Children yesterday published 'The Misuse of Alcohol and Other Drugs' report, which noted binge and problem drinking is costing the State more than €3.5bn a year.

"We must change our culture and attitude toward alcohol," said committee chair and Cork South Central TD Jerry Buttimer.

An outright ban on the sale of alcohol in supermarkets, forecourts and grocery shops is needed to reduce the widespread availability of alcohol, he said.

The report follows hearings with more than two dozen stakeholders and includes 13 recommendations that will now be studied by Junior Health Minister Roisin Shortall.

Among them are calls for a ban on alcohol advertising before 9pm and on social networking sites as well as a ban on ads promoting special alcohol discounts.

The report also recommends a ban on the delivery of alcohol to homes from retailers and calls for minimum pricing for alcohol to prevent alcohol from being sold below cost.

Alcohol Action Ireland director Fiona Ryan said the charity welcomes the report, adding that it touched on the three areas driving alcohol misuse -- namely price, availability and marketing.

"The reality is that things have changed. Kids are drinking younger and they're able to buy a lot more alcohol with the money they have," she said.

"But it's pointless for us as adults lecturing to young people about the need to watch their alcohol use while 50pc of us are drinking at levels that are jeopardising our own health," she said.

The report, meanwhile, also noted the growing abuse of prescription drugs, particularly tranquillisers marketed under such brand names as Valium, Xanax and Librium.

The committee recommends that legislation be amended to put stricter controls on their prescription and importation.

It also recommends that the law is changed to make the importation of cannabis seeds illegal.

Other recommendations include providing funding under the medical card scheme for drug and alcohol rehabilitation programmes.

- Allison Bray

BeerNut

And no-one points that supermarkets tend to having the strictest carding regimes. I've seen worryingly young kids being served in plenty of independent off licences. Much less often in the supermarket.

TheWarrior

BeerNut wrote: »

And no-one points that supermarkets tend to having the strictest carding regimes. I've seen worryingly young kids being served in plenty of independent off licences. Much less often in the supermarket.

My local Tesco has a sign erected (and enforced) saying no one under 25 will be served alcohol.

Lapsed Catholic

Similar nannyism goin on in the UK. Here is one reaction http://pubcurmudgeon.blogspot.com/

"CAMRA along with the idiots at Greene King and the nutters at Diageo have fallen hook, line and sinker for the nannying fussbuckets' agenda. Introduce a minimum price per unit for alcohol (just 40p say the bearded ale-suppers) and it will all be fine! Except it won't.

That 40p will soon be 50p. Then 60p and in no time £1. And the prohibitionists, nannying fussbuckets and adherents to the Church of Public Health will still scream about the terrible damage alcohol is wreaking on society.

So we'll get advertising restrictions and advertising bans. We'll get licensing restrictions and regulatory controls. High alcohol content beers will be banned. Warning labels will be placed on alcohol products - getting more and more extreme with each new iteration.

Soon universities and colleges will close their bars. Some will ban alcohol on campus. Only teetotallers will be recruited by the NHS and having alcohol in their private cars will lead to some workers being sacked.

And still the prohibitionists will scream about the evils of drink. We'll still get haggard doctors frowningly explaining how even one sip of booze could lead to alcoholism, liver disease and cancer.

This is not what CAMRA want - this is an organisation supposed to be an advocate for a healthy, mature and quality approach to boozing. Yet they are lining up with the ghastly people whose aim is to "denormalise" drinking, to make it something that normal people don't do - to kill the very thing that CAMRA campaign for."

Mr Simpson

TheWarrior wrote: »

My local Tesco has a sign erected (and enforced) saying no one under 25 will be served alcohol.

Are you sure it doesn't say, nobody under 25 will be served alcohol without ID, because my local Tesco has that

Bigcheeze

TheWarrior wrote: »

My local Tesco has a sign erected (and enforced) saying no one under 25 will be served alcohol.

I think that would be illegal discrimination on the basis of age.

BeerNut

It's not.

Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 wrote:

(4) If—
(a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a specified age which exceeds 18 years,
(b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous place in or on the exterior of the premises, and
(c) the policy is implemented in good faith,
a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not constitute discrimination on the age ground.

johnnyskeleton

Off topic, but how much of the alcohol supermarkets sell is actually "below cost" and what is "below publican/independent retailer cost"?

I'm pretty sure I read that aldi make a profit on all their wines and spirits, and they're usually cheaper than other supermarkets.

saywhatyousee

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Off topic, but how much of the alcohol supermarkets sell is actually "below cost" and what is "below publican/independent retailer cost"?

I'm pretty sure I read that aldi make a profit on all their wines and spirits, and they're usually cheaper than other supermarkets.

I used to take in delivery's when i worked in a pub.Miller was the cheapest 16 euro for 24 bottles Heineken the most expensive 20.50 for 24 bottles.These prices were back in 06/07 i presume they are probaly even cheaper now.

Ciarrai76

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Off topic, but how much of the alcohol supermarkets sell is actually "below cost" and what is "below publican/independent retailer cost"?

I'm pretty sure I read that aldi make a profit on all their wines and spirits, and they're usually cheaper than other supermarkets.

they can claim the VAT back by selling below cost, which the Government didn't realise was happening until NOFFLA pointed it out! So it has been costing the Government money!

johnnyskeleton

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Off topic, but how much of the alcohol supermarkets sell is actually "below cost"

Generally just bud and miller. To my knowledge none of the wines or spirits(where I work anyway) are sold below cost. I gather from talking to reps from diageo that they also take a hit on bud as well as the shop when its reduced. Heineken don't want their beer sold cheap as they think it's bad for the brands reputation.

Bigcheeze

BeerNut wrote: »

It's not.

Aha.

Well it should be.

Bigcheeze

Ciarrai76 wrote: »

they can claim the VAT back by selling below cost, which the Government didn't realise was happening until NOFFLA pointed it out! So it has been costing the Government money!

It's not losing any money. The government gets the vat on final sales price just like it always does.

Skatedude

Cmon. We buy by the can or bottle. When was the last time you went into a shop and asked for ten euros of alcohol?

Bigcheeze

Skatedude wrote: »

Cmon. We buy by the can or bottle. When was the last time you went into a shop and asked for ten euros of alcohol?

Huh ?

Should we ban the January sales because it's "costing" the government money ?

Mantel

Better education and advertising is needed rather than this crap of piling more money on to booze.

If raising the price of alcohol lowered the rates of drink driving then great, but it hasn't, an advertising and awareness campaign has done that! It's changed attitudes and how people think rather than making alcohol in to a forbidden drink that people crave.

Perhaps they should start with normalising the drink prices in the Dáil bar.

Lapsed Catholic

Childhood obesity is/was the new devil yet I don't see a minimum price on junk food. Considering the amount of adults who buy junk food for their kids, check out any McDs on a Sat/Sun, as against the amount of people who buy booze for their kids this penalty on the majority is a bit skewed.

johnnyskeleton

Deleted User wrote: »

Generally just bud and miller. To my knowledge none of the wines or spirits(where I work anyway) are sold below cost. I gather from talking to reps from diageo that they also take a hit on bud as well as the shop when its reduced. Heineken don't want their beer sold cheap as they think it's bad for the brands reputation.

Thanks. I suppose more generally what I mean is that even "below cost" budweiser and miller are usually more expensive than Tuborg, Dutch Gold, own brand beers etc. In fact, you could probably set up a beer company that can produce beer for all Tesco at 20c per can at a similar quality level to bud, miller etc.

I suspect (could be wrong though) that "below cost" means below what the brewery normally charges retailers, but with Tesco's bulk buying discounts and whatnot, they probably still make a bit of a profit off them.

In relation to VAT, this can be claimed back anyway no matter what price you sell the beer for. From what I have read about NOFFLA, they have not proved that there is below cost selling. Instead, they have pointed out that if it is happening, that the supermarkets could claim a VAT rebate. Which is perfectly fine. But it does not mean that they actually are selling below cost.

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't work in the area, but I suspect the equation is something along the lines of the following:

Budweiser sells wholesale for €0.40 per can.
Tesco gets a bulk discount of 25% i.e. buys for €0.30 per can.
Tesco sells for €0.35 per can.
Independent off licence claims that €0.35 is "below cost" because it is below what they could buy the Budweiser for. But it is not below cost for Tesco.

Or alternatively:

Budweiser sells wholesale for €0.40 with an RRP of €0.60 per can.
Independent off licence sells for €0.80 per can.
Tesco buys for €0.30 per can and sells for €0.50 per can.
Independent off licence claims that not only are Tesco selling below their price of €0.80, but they are selling "below cost" of €0.60 per can.

Given the way Irish lobby groups work, I would not be at all surprised if this was the real story.

kerrywez

It is all a load of rubbish, just an excuse to hit people for more money, yet another stealth tax. Ah for the days when our motor tax went to improve the roads, they are not even happy enough to be ripping us off with that, they now have the cheek to charge us yet more carbon tax, I have never figured how they tax the commonest element in the universe, and even have the audacity to tell us that it has nothing to do with saving the world, but that it is going straight into the treasury. Quite apart from the obvious, it is the publicans and off licence owners who are behind this, it suits the fools up in Dublin to say that our health is being ruined by irresponsible retailers selling us cheap booze, in order to have an excuse to tax our drink more than they would be able to do if they went down the usual road of hitting us with duty raises. If they rise the duty any more on the cost of alcohol and fuel it will all be duty and a few cents for the producers.

I do not drink or smoke so it is not in my personal interest to be saying what I have, but rather to try and make the case for those who wish to have a drink or a fag. I have a friend who does drink and we have discussed this and if they continue to go down this road then we will be going to the home brewing shops and getting kits there and I am going to put a few links to some of them here so some who would like to go down that road can have a jumping off point at least

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/
http://www.homebrew.ie/
http://www.thehomebrewcentre.com/

Even better than using the above I can fully recommend any of you to try out this one for good cider, you will still need to get the brewing yeast from them http://www.homebrewwest.ie/coopers-ox-bar-24-500ml-pet-bottles-better-than-glass-bottles-837-p.asp and the rest is easy. Go to Lidl or Aldi and buy 10X2 liter cartons of apple juice, make sure it is 100% pure juice buy a 80 or 120 Ltr plastic waste bin. which should be sterilised before using, Milton will do it or any baby bottle sterilising stuff. Put 6 Kilos of sugar in the bin, get it in either Aldi or Lidl also. Pour the apple juice into the bin, add another 10 ltrs of cold water and 16 ltrs of hot water stir well and sprinkle the two packs of the brewing yeast on top. The hot water will make the mix hot enough to start the yeast working, but not so hot to kill it, be careful not to have it too hot. All you need to do now is to cover the bin with a bin liner and tape it to the outside of the bin, put a small nick in the corner of the bin liner, to let the gas caused by the brewing out of it, and sit back and wait for a few weeks or at least 7/8 days. When the bin liner is not inflated the yeast will have stopped working and the brewing will be done. Should have said this before, but you will need to have gathered some 2 ltr bottles to bottle the finished cider in. You can buy the bottles for a small sum from the home brewing shops and delivery is very cheap too, see here http://www.homebrewwest.ie/coopers-ox-bar-24-500ml-pet-bottles-better-than-glass-bottles-837-p.asp

You will need to sterilise the bottles and tops now and rinse them keeping them in a clean place till you use them. To bottle the cider you will need a piece of plastic tubing to siphon the cider out of the bin and into the bottles. You will need to put a desert spoon of sugar into each bottle, this starts a secondary fermentation and this is what gives the cider it's gas, now siphon the liquor into the bottles leaving about 3 inches (8Cms) of space at the top of the bottle, now screw the tops on the bottles. any bottles will do, as I said you can get them from the home brewing shops for around €20 for 24 1 ltr bottles. All you need do now is tore the bottle in a warm place and keep an eye on them when the have cleared they should be ready to drink, be careful when pouring them as there will be some sediment in the bottom of the bottles, this is yeast formed from the secondary fermentation, it should not be disturbed as it distracts from the flavour of the cider and is not nice on the taste buds, just pour the bottle very slowly, trying to avoid any big bubbles going up into the bottle. If you wish to avoid the sediment then use these http://www.homebrewwest.ie/coopers-carbonation-drops-172-p.asp That is about it very cheap cider and strong into the bargain and not a cent going to the cretins up in Dublin.

I have used the one online supplier in my links and have nothing to do with him or any other of them, but by getting everything from this supplier you can have it all delivered for €4.95, thus saving you more.

Regards Wez

Slaphead07

does anyone smell spam?

kerrywez

Slaphead07 wrote: »

does anyone smell spam?

Something wrong with that big nose of yours mate I got no interest in anything to do with home brewing save trying to get people cheap booze but I will withdraw the bloody post if it pleases a doubter like you. It is people like you who have made this country the sad and sorry place it is, you can't see when people are out to help others and only see the bad side of things. I hope you have a very nice day, as you have not had a very nice life so far by the way it seems to me.:eek:

Slaphead07

kerrywez wrote: »

Something wrong with that big nose of yours mate I got no interest in anything to do with home brewing save trying to get people cheap booze but I will withdraw the bloody post if it pleases a doubter like you. It is people like you who have made this country the sad and sorry place it is, you can't see when people are out to help others and only see the bad side of things. I hope you have a very nice day, as you have not had a very nice life so far by the way it seems to me.:eek:

yeah, personal insults help your case alright. Good man, it's shows how much you really care about others. Four links to one company and a very specific delivery price for that company make me suspicious. It's up to mods after that I suppose.

TomCo

Slaphead07 wrote: »

yeah, personal insults help your case alright. Good man, it's shows how much you really care about others. Four links to one company and a very specific delivery price for that company make me suspicious. It's up to mods after that I suppose.

I think he's just trying to help.
There aren't a huge selection of online Irish homebrew retailers (homebrewwest.ie and thehomebrewcompany.ie being the main ones).

n97 mini

It would help if retailers stopped selling to kids.

A well known shop/chain in the city centre sold a bottle of vodka to my daughter's 15-year old friend a few days ago. This won't end well.

Lapsed Catholic

The sale of alcopops has long been iresponsible and does nothing to educate the pallet yet publicans continue to sell them despite the drinkaware campaign. We will all now be penalised rather than the publicans step up. They defeated McDowell when he tried to bring in cafe bars, they got off licences opening hours restricted and now they want the prices raised in the hope that people will go back to pubs.