How are the IR Celtic Tiger extensions doing?

AngryLips

Curious to know how these three lines (all re-opened during the "Tiger" years) are performing:

Limerick to Galway
Cork to Middleton
Dublin to Dunboyne

Patronage, frequency changes since launch etc...

Have I missed out on any? Was there anything north of the border?

Jacknory

Prime Time had a report on the Galway to Limerick line and outlined that there was an average of 8 people using each train. Colm McCarthy was on to say that it would be cheaper to buy two taxis and shuttle people around that way instead.

Not sure about the other two lines.

foggy_lad

The Dunboyne branch line is not much better than the western rail failure.

n97 mini

Midleton has a good frequency of trains. Every half hour all day long.

deRanged

n97 mini wrote: »

Midleton has a good frequency of trains. Every half hour all day long.

no, it's every half hour at rush hour, and every hour the rest of the day.

I just started taking the train from Midleton to Cork for work, and by my count there's at least 75 people at Midleton in the mornings, with about the same number joining by Little Island.

I don't think there's been any major changes to frequency on the line yet anyway.

n97 mini

deRanged wrote: »

no, it's every half hour at rush hour, and every hour the rest of the day.

Yes, I see it now. I originally only glanced at the first few entries in the timetable.

I'm not really familiar with Cork, but is there much employment within walking distance of Kent Stn?

Also, I see the last train from Cork is at 10:15pm... so if you're out for a few pints after work on a Friday is there anything (aside from a taxi) that will get you home a bit later?

AngryLips

foggy_lad wrote: »

The Dunboyne branch line is not much better than the western rail failure.

Really? That's surprising. Every other commuter line out of Dublin is usually chockers... Maybe it's lack of awareness.

L1011

AngryLips wrote: »

Really? That's surprising. Every other commuter line out of Dublin is usually chockers... Maybe it's lack of awareness.

That and the trains go to Docklands with unguaranteed transfers to (packed) Maynooth-Pearse trains.

They're building a bay platform to allow better transfers. Allow doesn't mean they'll do it...

foggy_lad

AngryLips wrote: »

Really? That's surprising. Every other commuter line out of Dublin is usually chockers... Maybe it's lack of awareness.

Any time I have been on it the train empties out at Clonsilla and only a handful continue on to Dunboyne and M3 Parkway

n97 mini

foggy_lad wrote: »

Any time I have been on it the train empties out at Clonsilla and only a handful continue on to Dunboyne and M3 Parkway

When I worked in the IFSC I used to get on at Docklands and get off at Clonsilla and wait for the Maynooth train. The resulting 5 or 8 minutes wait was a small price to pay for a seat on a relatively empty train vs the cattle train from Connolly.

corktina

deRanged wrote: »

no, it's every half hour at rush hour, and every hour the rest of the day.

I just started taking the train from Midleton to Cork for work, and by my count there's at least 75 people at Midleton in the mornings, with about the same number joining by Little Island.

I don't think there's been any major changes to frequency on the line yet anyway.

Little Island was already there of course, so not much more than a bus-full on a peak service.

CIE

AngryLips wrote: »

Curious to know how these three lines (all re-opened during the "Tiger" years) are performing:

Limerick to Galway
Cork to Midleton
Dublin to Dunboyne

Patronage, frequency changes since launch etc...

Have I missed out on any? Was there anything north of the border?

The "Celtic Tiger" was before joining the euro. There were no railway "extensions" built during that period, unless you count Luas. Besides, by "extensions", it appears you mean "re-openings" instead.

Don't trust the state to make anything of this sort work.

Cookie_Monster

CIE wrote: »

The "Celtic Tiger" was before joining the euro. There were no railway "extensions" built during that period, unless you count Luas. Besides, by "extensions", it appears you mean "re-openings" instead.

we only joined the Euro in 2008?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Tiger

AngryLips

CIE wrote: »

The "Celtic Tiger" was before joining the euro. There were no railway "extensions" built during that period, unless you count Luas. Besides, by "extensions", it appears you mean "re-openings" instead.

Don't trust the state to make anything of this sort work.

I think everyone understood my question.

MYOB wrote: »

That and the trains go to Docklands with unguaranteed transfers to (packed) Maynooth-Pearse trains.

They're building a bay platform to allow better transfers. Allow doesn't mean they'll do it...

Kildare trains only go to Heuston, not exactly city centre, yet people use the service regardless.

foggy_lad

AngryLips wrote: »

I think everyone understood my question.



Kildare trains only go to Heuston, not exactly city centre, yet people use the service regardless.

People still use the service from Kildare only because the bus service from Kildare is so awful because it serves Newbridge and Naas and Johnstown and Kill. There should be regular express buses from Kildare at peak times to compete with the far dearer trains.

n97 mini

AngryLips wrote: »

Kildare trains only go to Heuston, not exactly city centre, yet people use the service regardless.

With good onward travel into the city centre (Luas), but if they could switch at a station along the way onto a train that goes to Connolly/Tara/Pearse, I bet a lot would.

corktina

Don't be dadft....wouldn't we need a tunnel for that?:cool:

thomasj

foggy_lad wrote: »

The Dunboyne branch line is not much better than the western rail failure.

It seems to do well at the weekend not sure about during the week.

Also dont forget only 2 of its 3 stations are open.

Theres certainly more than an average of 8

AngryLips

When is the 3rd station expected to be opened?

n97 mini

When they build the access road. No work had even started on that the last time I was up that way a month or two ago.

AngryLips

I can just see IR trying to close this line because it's not meeting passenger targets, all the time not bothering to open the 3rd station along the route.

monument

foggy_lad wrote: »

Any time I have been on it the train empties out at Clonsilla and only a handful continue on to Dunboyne and M3 Parkway

I have been on Luas trams more than a few times in the city centre which at rush hour had loads of room on them. But that does not tell the whole story -- The tram behind and right on front of it would be pack solid. You can't measure things like overall passenger usage in this way.

In any case, you'd expect most people to be getting out by Clonsilla as (until Handfield is opened) it's the last station serving the large block of population around D15. The population drops off after that.

AngryLips wrote: »

I can just see IR trying to close this line because it's not meeting passenger targets, all the time not bothering to open the 3rd station along the route.

My reading of it is that it seems to be less the fault of Irish Rail (who have the station ready, even with funding from builders etc) and more the fault of the builders for not building the access road and the council not forcing them to do it before any houses were built.

deRanged

n97 mini wrote: »

I'm not really familiar with Cork, but is there much employment within walking distance of Kent Stn?

Also, I see the last train from Cork is at 10:15pm... so if you're out for a few pints after work on a Friday is there anything (aside from a taxi) that will get you home a bit later?

there's a good amount of employment available, depending how you define walking distance. I walk to my office in UCC - around 3km. I see some people (from the same train) walking further than that. That radius gives a decent catchment for employment. Don't forget that the No. 5 (now 205) bus goes from the station yard to CIT now too.


The last train being 22:15 is a bit of a nuisance. Back in the day the last train was 23:25 to Cobh, but it's been 22:15 to Midleton and 22:30 to Cobh for ages now.

Victor

foggy_lad wrote: »

The Dunboyne branch line is not much better than the western rail failure.

Well, at least developers paid for a chunk of it and it doesn't cost as much to run.

corktina wrote: »

Little Island was already there of course, so not much more than a bus-full on a peak service.

Don't forget some of those will be from Carrigtwohill.

And in fairness, the cost of the Midleton project included improvements to the Cobh line, including platform works, track and the bridge and level crossing at Tivoli. In contrast, the WRC expenditure only really saw the addition of Sixmilebridge to the operational sections. Now, if only they had bought ticket machines for the Cobh line.

n97 mini wrote: »

Yes, I see it now. I originally only glanced at the first few entries in the timetable.

I'm not really familiar with Cork, but is there much employment within walking distance of Kent Stn?

Also, I see the last train from Cork is at 10:15pm... so if you're out for a few pints after work on a Friday is there anything (aside from a taxi) that will get you home a bit later?

Last bus is at 2300. I presume one could have had a few pints by 2215 though.

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1314193832-40.pdf
http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1276860454-241.pdf
http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1276860455-260.pdf
http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1321956598-261.pdf

n97 mini

Victor wrote: »

Last bus is at 2300. I presume one could have had a few pints by 2215 though.

Stop the DART at 22:15 and see how it would go down!

foggy_lad

Victor wrote: »

Well, at least developers paid for a chunk of it and it doesn't cost as much to run.Don't forget some of those will be from Carrigtwohill.

And in fairness, the cost of the Midleton project included improvements to the Cobh line, including platform works, track and the bridge and level crossing at Tivoli. In contrast, the WRC expenditure only really saw the addition of Sixmilebridge to the operational sections. Now, if only they had bought ticket machines for the Cobh line.

And it has not flooded and appears to have much higher speeds and goes near some fairly large towns.

Victor

n97 mini wrote: »

Stop the DART at 22:15 and see how it would go down!

Run a DART every 30 minutes at peak time! Horses for courses, the DART is mostly urban, the Midleton line isn't.

Bogger77

Victor wrote: »

And in fairness, the cost of the Midleton project included improvements to the Cobh line, including platform works, track and the bridge and level crossing at Tivoli. In contrast, the WRC expenditure only really saw the addition of Sixmilebridge to the operational sections. Now, if only they had bought ticket machines for the Cobh line.

There are ticket machines on that line, even before Midleton line re-opened, there was ticket machine at LittleIsland station, at least

Aidan1

goes near some fairly large towns

Worthy of note that the Local Authorities built their Land Use and Transport Plans (LUTS/CASP etc) around a reopened rail link from as far back as 1978 (in Ireland, imagine that), so planning and zoning in the region was focussed on it from way back. Hence Midleton and Cobh each have populations of (just) over 10,000, Carrigtwohill has grown a lot too, and an attempt has been made to keep population in the region generally close to the towns (Dick Roche's lifting of restrictions has had a effect obviously).

Moreover, given the fact that (a) the Dunkettle interchange is going to be a problem for at least 10 years, (b) Cork city and the harbour region seems to be doing ok in terms of keeping and even generating some jobs, and (c) transport fuel prices are high and climbing, the rail line looks like a relative success for the foreseeable future.

Victor

Bogger77 wrote: »

There are ticket machines on that line, even before Midleton line re-opened, there was ticket machine at LittleIsland station, at least

Sure, and I think there is one at Cobh, but few or none in between.

n97 mini

Victor wrote: »

the DART is mostly urban, the Midleton line isn't.

When customers from Midleton are on their way home early from Cork city centre, having left their friends behind, in the pub enjoying themselves, I'm sure that will make them feel better.

It's all about providing a service, y'know.

dowlingm

n97 mini wrote: »

When customers from Midleton are on their way home early from Cork city centre, having left their friends behind, in the pub enjoying themselves, I'm sure that will make them feel better.

It's all about providing a service, y'know.

How did they ever manage before the line reopened :rolleyes:

All that said, perhaps if trains were stabled in/crewed from Midleton and Cobh (which I don't think is the case now?) perhaps later service could be contemplated.

Jehuty42

Don't think a crew base is strictly necessary, Maynooth has no such base and the 23:10 Pearse Maynooth, the last train serving it, just returns empty to Connolly(might also pick up staff and close station shutters along the way.) So it can certainly be done if there is demand for it. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't.

n97 mini

dowlingm wrote: »

How did they ever manage before the line reopened :rolleyes:

The same as now, I suppose. Home, decade of the rosary, early night.

deRanged

I asked about it before, and apparently if they were to run a train later than the 22:15 and 22:30, it requires a new shift, so it's not worth it for the passenger numbers.

it's a shame, it's my one complaint about the Cobh & Midleton lines.

n97 mini

deRanged wrote: »

I asked about it before, and apparently if they were to run a train later than the 22:15 and 22:30, it requires a new shift, so it's not worth it for the passenger numbers.

it's a shame, it's my one complaint about the Cobh & Midleton lines.

Get on to your local public representatives, and at least make them aware that the times could be better.

dowlingm

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Don't think a crew base is strictly necessary, Maynooth has no such base and the 23:10 Pearse Maynooth, the last train serving it, just returns empty to Connolly(might also pick up staff and close station shutters along the way.) So it can certainly be done if there is demand for it. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't.

yes, but if the later train didn't require deadheading back to Kent it might make it workable within the same shift per deRanged's post and also save on a similar movement from Cork-Midleton/Cobh in the mornings (or even a early movement ex Midleton and/or Cobh to make the 0615 to Dublin - the first Cobh service arrives 0624 having come out from Cork arriving 0554)

Padraig Mor

deRanged wrote: »

it's a shame, it's my one complaint about the Cobh & Midleton lines.

They could try putting the correct destination on the front of the train too! Got the train to Cobh last week - from platform 2 (as normal) but it had 'Midleton' as the destination on the front. (Midleton train goes from the adjacent platform 1). Hitting Rushbrooke, a foreign gentleman rather worriedly asked me if this was in fact the Midleton train. Had to explain to him that, despite what it said on the front, it was actually the Cobh train. Of course if the ticket inspector had bothered doing his round, the problem might have been avoided (change at Glounthane), but he had his buddies to chat to in the cab......

LXFlyer

dowlingm wrote: »

yes, but if the later train didn't require deadheading back to Kent it might make it workable within the same shift per deRanged's post and also save on a similar movement from Cork-Midleton/Cobh in the mornings (or even a early movement ex Midleton and/or Cobh to make the 0615 to Dublin - the first Cobh service arrives 0624 having come out from Cork arriving 0554)

Given Cobh and Midleton stations are unstaffed at night I doubt IE would be too keen on stabling trains there overnight from a safety perspective.