Flappin aka horse and pony racing query

easydosh

Just a quick question that ive wondered about recently

Do the riders in pony racing get paid the same as a p2p rider or jockey for their services or do they usually get payment ??? ta

JimDeChamp

When my wee brother was doing it he was getting 250 a ride and then an extra 500 if he won on it...!

convert

JimDeChamp wrote: »

When my wee brother was doing it he was getting 250 a ride and then an extra 500 if he won on it...!

Fools and their money.....

If that's true that's ridiculous

finbarrk

JimDeChamp wrote: »

When my wee brother was doing it he was getting 250 a ride and then an extra 500 if he won on it...!

He must have been exceptional. What's he at now?

ft9

JimDeChamp wrote: »

When my wee brother was doing it he was getting 250 a ride and then an extra 500 if he won on it...!

LOL

UrbanSea

Was he racing thoroughbreds in Dubai?

ft9

Could have got Ruby for in around €100

JimDeChamp

The boy he was riding for gives 20-30k per horse at the hit sales for horses to flap with..! He is riding on the track now...

ft9

And how much does he get riding on the track?

JimDeChamp

I think it's 120 on the flat and 150 jumping.. Which at the moment he has no expences so it's all profit..

Colonel Sanders

So there's more money riding a flapper than a track horse eh???

easydosh

surely that gives one no incentive to go under rules if that was the case and the person got on 250 a ride if he rode a 200 a year which bear in mind would be possible if he was in the top 10:

Say
200 x 250 =50000 e
then about say 10 winners a year which would be an additional 500e
10x 500= 5000e

Leaving an under 16 year student old with a tax free income of 55000euro not taking into their occasional money for riding work etc.

To me it seems like a good life,, almost too good:D

JimDeChamp

Well he was being retained by this man in particular and that's what he was getting for his services, I suppose it prob does depend on who you ride for but that's what he was getting, which if you ask me isn't a whole lot when it's weighed up against the risks involved and the time he put into it... Also considering the percentage of rides he's getting on the track compared to flapping he'd be better off back flapping

ft9

For gods sake, no one was/is getting 250

JimDeChamp

It doesn't really bother me of you believe it or not but it's just like, Nina, Derek, Jamie codd, Robbie mac all them are getting serious money to ride horses I know a person that offered nina 1k to ride a horse and 5k more if she won on him and she turned it down...

ft9

JimDeChamp wrote: »

It doesn't really bother me of you believe it or not but it's just like, Nina, Derek, Jamie codd, Robbie mac all them are getting serious money to ride horses I know a person that offered nina 1k to ride a horse and 5k more if she won on him and she turned it down...

Well I don't, so just aswell your not bothered.

Bury Down The Hatchet

JimDeChamp wrote: »

It doesn't really bother me of you believe it or not but it's just like, Nina, Derek, Jamie codd, Robbie mac all them are getting serious money to ride horses I know a person that offered nina 1k to ride a horse and 5k more if she won on him and she turned it down...

It'll cost ya a monkey to get Derek or Jamie for maiden (maybe 300 for an older maiden) and you can nearly double that for a winner. You'll be giving Nina most of a grand for a ride in a bumper. Robbie Mc prob getting at least a monkey too and cleaning up when he rides a winner for Weld.

That being said they are amateurs and theres no fella getting 250 a ride in flaps. Maybe the top lads get it at times like Dingle and that but theres noone getting that on an everday basis.

ft9

This is ridiculous. Have any of ye ever paid a jockey?

Its all done through Turf Club, they all get same fee.

convert

I know for definite one of the above named top amateurs got 150 for riding a winner in a ptp last year. And anyone paying a grand for anyone to ride their horse seriously wants their head examined.

Bury Down The Hatchet

ft9 wrote: »

This is ridiculous. Have any of ye ever paid a jockey?

Its all done through Turf Club, they all get same fee.

Amateur riders don't receive a fee. You pay them yourselves. And if you think that the fee's for the top pro's stops at the standard 160 quid then you can think again.

easydosh

I no that one of the big p2p riders gets 300 for a winner in an older race and 500 for a younger maiden and gets a 5% commission on sales all taxes free, Id say the top p2p lads,mentioned are earning anything between 110k to 130 k per annum madness in some respects but they are top of their game in fairness

As for Ruby Walsh and the likes i cant start to imagine..

However as for flapping riders what is the standard pay per ride for most meetings...


thanks:D

Bury Down The Hatchet

easydosh wrote: »

I no that one of the big p2p riders gets 300 for a winner in an older race and 500 for a younger maiden and gets a 5% commission on sales all taxes free, Id say the top p2p lads,mentioned are earning anything between 110k to 130 k per annum madness in some respects but they are top of their game in fairness

As for Ruby Walsh and the likes i cant start to imagine..

However as for flapping riders what is the standard pay per ride for most meetings...


thanks:D

I'd say standard fee is between 20 and fifty quid, maybe nearer a 100 for the top three or four riders if its a derby. Probably split the prizemoney then on a winner.

ft9

Bury Down The Hatchet wrote: »

Amateur riders don't receive a fee. You pay them yourselves. And if you think that the fee's for the top pro's stops at the standard 160 quid then you can think again.

I know what top pro's get, as we have paid a few of them. All through Turf Club, no extra. Think its €110, very close to that anyway.

Perhaps you would want to think again...

Bury Down The Hatchet

ft9 wrote: »

I know what top pro's get, as we have paid a few of them. All through Turf Club, no extra. Think its €110, very close to that anyway.

Perhaps you would want to think again...

The current jump jockeys fee is nearly €170 so your well off there.

Have you ever had ruby ride a winner for ya?

ft9

Bury Down The Hatchet wrote: »

The current jump jockeys fee is nearly €170 so your well off there.

Have you ever had ruby ride a winner for ya?

No not Ruby.

Carberry has ridden for us.

I am nearly certain its closer to the €110 mark, will have a look at a statement the weekend.

If they win, its 9 or 10% of winnings plus the fee.

Trainer gets same percentage of winnings

UrbanSea

Think the win percentage is 8%, different jockeys do not get higher percentages

Huntey

It is roughly 7-8% of the winnings.

I know one pro went to a meet where he had 4 less rides than a conflicting meet but knew he would be compensated by the owner for doing so.

ft9

Well, our jock recently went to UK to ride and all he got was his fee and percentage. Paid for his own costs flights accom everything

Huntey

ft9 wrote: »

Well, our jock recently went to UK to ride and all he got was his fee and percentage. Paid for his own costs flights accom everything

He must be scraping the barrel for rides. I know of pretty lowly rated pros who wouldn't even dream of doing that.

UrbanSea

Or maybe it was for a good ride

ft9

Huntey wrote: »

He must be scraping the barrel for rides. I know of pretty lowly rated pros who wouldn't even dream of doing that.

Not at all

Huntey

UrbanSea wrote: »

Or maybe it was for a good ride

I know of small time pros who have refused Grade 2 and 3 rides because it was not worth the while if they are not being compensated.

Huntey

ft9 wrote: »

Not at all

Who is he?

ft9

Huntey wrote: »

Who is he?

Thats irrelevant.

He would not be too short of rides at all, and has won some of the biggest NH pots in Ireland.

I won't argue that jocks won't expect travel money or whatever, this guy is probably showing some loyalty and/or wants to keep the ride.

But I will argue the fact people are saying jockeys demand extra money on top of their fee for a ride.

Paul Carberry did not, and I don't think you can argue he is not a top jock?

Huntey

ft9 wrote: »

Thats irrelevant.
He would not be too short of rides at all, and has won some of the biggest NH pots in Ireland.

I won't argue that jocks won't expect travel money or whatever, this guy is probably showing some loyalty and/or wants to keep the ride.

But I will argue the fact people are saying jockeys demand extra money on top of their fee for a ride.

Paul Carberry did not, and I don't think you can argue he is not a top jock?

I was interested to know who would have gone to such lengths for a single ride without getting compensated.

I don't think people are saying jockeys demand extra on top of their fee, rather that they are compensated by owners for various reasons on many occasions.

That person in question has been compensated probably thousands of times. I presume he had other rides at the meet or else would have not travelled.

Important to remember jockeys won't be showing loyalty if it isn't shown to them. And they talk aswell, they may not ask for a bit extra if they have made a big effort to take the ride but you can be sure they will let people know about it.

ft9

He had a couple rides at the festival alright, but only 1 on the day.

And yes I'm pretty sure if it was just our ride for the whole festival he would have done the same, as we have shown him a bit of loyalty too.

He's that kind of guy

JimDeChamp

Loyalty doesn't exist in horse racing...! Jockeys get 10% and it's toned down to about 7% after all outside party's get their cut out of it...!

ft9

JimDeChamp wrote: »

Loyalty doesn't exist in horse racing...! Jockeys get 10% and it's toned down to about 7% after all outside party's get their cut out of it...!

Yes it does, if your involved with the right people.

Huntey

ft9 wrote: »

He had a couple rides at the festival alright, but only 1 on the day.

And yes I'm pretty sure if it was just our ride for the whole festival he would have done the same, as we have shown him a bit of loyalty too.

He's that kind of guy

I know what kind of guy he is but at the same time he isn't stupid.

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't, if he is making a loss before he even gets on the saddle it isn't worth it.

Bury Down The Hatchet

ft9 wrote: »

No not Ruby.

Carberry has ridden for us.

I am nearly certain its closer to the €110 mark, will have a look at a statement the weekend.

If they win, its 9 or 10% of winnings plus the fee.

Trainer gets same percentage of winnings

Trust me the current jockey fee is something like 169.28 for jump jockeys and around 134.79 for the flat lads.

Yeah if it's a once off on a horse that doesn't win then we leave it at the fee. However where we want to build up a relationship with the rider to get them when they aren't already committed to riding their retained trainers horses and it's a winner then they are looked after.

finbarrk

ft9 wrote: »

I know what top pro's get, as we have paid a few of them. All through Turf Club, no extra. Think its €110, very close to that anyway.

Perhaps you would want to think again...

It's a bit more than that. Besides that, Bury the hatchet is correct in a lot of what he is saying.

Maldini12

Flappin jockeys usually get €50 per ride and if they win €100.. That's what we pay them anyways