Ivy good or bad on trees?

Jack_regan

I have some ash trees in the garden that have ivy starting to grow a few feet up them. The trees are about twenty years old. I remember someone telling me in the past that ivy is not good for trees and that it kills them eventually. Is this the case or does it not really do them any harm, I quite like the appearance of the ivy however if it's going to eventually kill the trees then I'll get rid of it.

Also why does the ivy only grow on certain trees and not others, do trees have a defence mechanism against the ivy growing on them? Could the ivy growing on some of the ash trees and not on others be an indication that the trees with the ivy are dying and are not able to fight off the ivy?

Thanks

greenfingers89

It can definately kill trees if it gets bad enough but it would take years to kill your trees if its only starting up them now. im not sure about some species being able to repel it or not

Bodacious

It will choke them in time, hit it in one place as low down as you can with a small hand axe and wait for it to fall off

Oldtree

In the uk it is accepted wisdom that ivy only climbs sick trees. That idea is no good here as ivy goes up lots of trees all over the place. Ivy imo is an endemic weed but with few controls as weedkillers do not penetrate the waxy covering on the leaf. However a systemic weedkiller applied to a cut in the bark may do the job but would cost a fortune.

I normally cut the ivy at the base of the tree and remove a section of about 10 inches as anything shorter and the ivy may reattatch itself, using a saw or a hand axe. I leave the ivy in the tree to fall by itself. Do not damage the bark of a tree when doing this job. This job would then need to be repeated every 4-5 years. Old ivy on old trees that has been cut can take off and be up 20-25 feet in a few years.

I have seen ivy in mature, semi-mature and young healthy trees and cut it on all those trees. Some of the ivy I cut must have been 50-70 years old going up from a single thick stem that had been browsed by cattle.

The ivy may compete with trees for nutrient and water in the same soil. It does not strangle trees.

The main problem, taking a mature hawthorn as an example, is that after a number of years the weight of the ivy becomes too much for the tree to compensate for and the tree will fall over in high winds. This effect is particularly noticible in winter time when the sap and flexibility is gone from the tree.

Ivy is not parasitic and does not damage the tree as such is what we are told. However observations have lead me to believe that that in our damp climate thick ivy going up a tree can create a little moist microclimate habitat under the ivy for creatures like woodlouse. I noticed a type of organic brown mulch (results of the woodlouse munching??) under the ivy as well as the bark being much softer and in some places deformed by the thick ivy stems where the ivy had circumnavigated the tree stem.

A tree breathes through its bark and in my mind there is no doubt that ivy both damages a tree and makes a tree more prone to damage.

Rovi

I must admit that I take a certain pleasure in cutting ivy off at the ground, and watching it wither and die and fall out of the tree over subsequent years.

fodda

Ivy will blanket the ground aswell as it travels from tree to tree.

It stops everything growing choking the whole environment and keeping the ground wet.

Grazing animals if the trees are mature or pigs would stop this.

Jack_regan

Hey Lads,

Thanks for all the replies, I'll get rid of the ivy so before it has the whole place swamped!

Cheers

Oldtree

Rovi wrote: »

I must admit that I take a certain pleasure in cutting ivy off at the ground, and watching it wither and die and fall out of the tree over subsequent years.

ditto

Mothman

A recent thread in Nature may inform on benefits of Ivy to our fauna.

I won't repeat it here, but I don't get concerned over a bit of ivy growing up a few feet.

Oldtree

yes ivy can have benefits to our fauna, as can anything else you care to mention such as a discarded oil can. The fact that it is so prolific in the irish landscape must be of concern and it is a weed (plant growing in the wrong place). I will post a few photos tomorrow of the kind of problems ivy can cause to trees, never mind the problems it is causing to the walls.

I wonder what effect the loss of mature hawthorn trees has on the fauna, given the distinct lack of trees in the irish landscape?

I have a small semi natural woodland and cut the ivy on the majority of the ash trees and it was not just up a few feet, I did however leave it on some trees as 'as you mentioned' it can have some benefits.

Mothman

Well a weed is a human term, but then the forests/woodlands are human planted, so perhaps that gives us the right to call a plant we don't want a weed, but it is still in the eye of the beholder.

I do a rotation of ivy cutting on my own trees and also take delight in the all the insects such as Moths & Butterflies that feed on the flowers and then in late winter, the birds that feed on the berries. But I don't champion the cause of never touching it, but I don't see much reason in the OP to specifically target the Ivy. I don't get the impression that it is about matured Hawthorn

Oldtree

oops caught?!?!? ivy zelotness showing through...... almost started ranting.

I think balance is an important word and that a balance is where we have to take our industrial landscape if we can. My woodland is semi natural but also has ancient woodland indicators, limestone pavement with lovely deep grikes, a lapsed copice adjacent to fields.

Cattle were overwintered in the woodland but that is somthing that I have stopped as they were spreading organic matter onto the limestone, which could be considdered a natural progression but I want to preserve the limestone and allow it to dissapear at a as best as i can natural pace, cattle also spread seeds mainly grasses from goodness knows where all over the place impacting on the other native and more sensitive flora that you can get in a hazel ash woodland.

anyway i could go on and on as I spent a number of years looking at what is happening there, the ebbs and flows, before embarking on a management plan of sorts which I believe will benefit a lot of flora and fauna but without being too agressive into having to have maximum biodiversity, which I think is more of a fairytale.

Jack_regan

Thanks again for all the replies, I think on reflection I'll take a more balanced approach to the ivy removal and just remove it from the trees that are close to the house for now and let it grow for a few years on the trees further down the garden. Then when it starts really taking over the trees further down the garden I'll cut it back in rotation, so there will always be some ivy in the garden for the wildlife.

I do like the look of the ivy, it's nice having a bit of extra greenery around the place especially in the winter. Now on to the briar's, don't get me started!

fodda

I suppose because there is nothing to graze on it that it can become such a problem which is why if you have no grazing animals you have to manually keep it in check by cutting back.

On this point i read that ivy berries are not great for sheep, but you try and stop them eating the berries, they go bananas for the stuff...........Anybody know the story with this?

Oldtree

I have often seen it grazed from the walls or off hawthorns that have fallen by cattle. When i asked a local older farmer he told me that they loved it esp when they were short of vitamins.

On the older trees I mentioned above the cattle had grazed the ivy into a single thick stem which was leafless up to the point that the cattle could not reach.

It is possible that due to the lack of cattle in my woodland that the ground spread of ivy has escalated. But saying that it was on almost every tree in the wood big and small even when the cattle had been there for years.

Goats could possibly stop the spred and are used in the burren. But ivy is everywhere and I would view it as a monoculture the same as a grass field, in dire need of de-monoculturing, but i also accept the things I cannot change and find a way to live with it.

Briars got a hammering last winter!

fodda

Oldtree wrote: »

Briars got a hammering last winter!

Good !!

The absence of pigs in woodland which are said to be beneficial to woodland. I wonder how a woodland with pigs or boar in it looks compared to one without?

Goats were the poor mans livestock in the UK and Ireland, and because the poor had no land the goats would graze on the roadsides and anywhere where a livestock owner didnt keep his livestock............Maybe in olden days woodland was grazed by goats to clear them up as sheep would get caught in the briars and white/blackthorn and cattle wouldnt get through the same stuff, but goats would eat the lot.

Oldtree

Ah sher arnt the briars a useful habitat too......

Goats would be a good idea for my woodland but there is no way of keeping them off the limestone pavement spreading their organic matter into the grikes same as the cattle.

From what little i have seen of pigs they seem to spend a lot of time digging and that would be a problen for the sensitive native flora.

fodda

Here is the story of a small old english woodland copse and what was made from it. http://www.grow-your-own.ie/jh.html#coppicing_for_making_sheep_hurdles_and_fencing


May be an idea for you?

Oldtree

Another thing that I forgot to mention is that the ivy will also suppress branch growth/ development as well as suppressing adventitious bud growth. This leads to a thinner crown evident in an ivy “infested tree”, particularly hawthorn that has lots of adventitious buds. Willow too has loads where as mature beech has very few.

I also remembered that a friend has a few goats and they ring barked his lovely old apple tree so they might no be the best option for a woodland.

A mature hawthorn has an increased habitat value in an area where there are few trees of any sort around the field edges and slim pickings for a replacement. It is well known that older trees can support flora and fauna that only reside on trees of a certain age,

Pictures

Tree 1 shows a Hawthorn covered in ivy. The weight of the ivy will pull this roadside tree over. Notice the thin crown.
Tree 2 shows a Hawthorn already pulled over with the Ivy still happily growing away. This tree may regrow from its roots.
Tree 3a shows a veteran Ash where the ivy was cut at the base 4 years ago. The ivy is already up over 30 foot. I don’t think the ivy will damage this tree as the older Ash has a thick bark and the weight of the Ivy will not bother it. However the bark is being smothered and I believe damaged in that way so I will cut this ivy at the bottom every 4 years. Tree 3b is from the reverse side showing the ivy has surrounded the trunk.

Oldtree

Sycamore 1 and 2 show where the Ivy has been browsed in the past and settled down to one thick stem up to the browse line. I think that this ivy may well be as old as the tree, in this case about 60-70 years old (thin soil on a limestone pavement). Sycamore 2b shows where the ivy has split due to the growth and flexing of the tree.

Woodland 1, 2, 3 and 4 show the woodland is infested with ivy. Woodland 1 ivy is being left untouched for diversity reasons.

Oldtree

woodland 3 and 4

Oldtree

Ivy Ivy everywhere and not a drop to drink!

Oldtree

Have just found a book in my collection on the subject called "for the love of trees - trees, hedgerows, ivy and the environment" by risteard mulcahy 1996published by environmental publications dublin

One other point that I felt was vallid is that it may well be better for a tree if when ivy is cut at the base, if there is a lot of ivy in the tree, that the ivy is not pulled out of the tree. This will allow the tree to adjust over time to the reduction in crown weight as the ivy degrades away.