Do you have to do a language for LC?

Bella mamma

Filling in 5th year choices. Excluding Irish/English being told he has to pick French/Spanish/German etc. Why? Is this up to the individual school? He doesn't want to continue the JC one, or do a new one. Likes/much better at other subjects.

mcpaddington

Bella mamma wrote: »

Filling in 5th year choices. Excluding Irish/English being told he has to pick French/Spanish/German etc. Why? Is this up to the individual school? He doesn't want to continue the JC one, or do a new one. Likes/much better at other subjects.

You don't need a third language for most science courses. Most of the courses available do require a third language however.

Bella mamma

mcpaddington wrote: »

You don't need a third language for most science courses. Most of the courses available do require a third language however.

Thanks. Yes, he'll be heading the science direction. But the school is saying he has to do a 3rd langague. Of note, my friend has the exact same situation currently in her daughter's (different) school. Can we say "No (thank you)!", i.e. can schools insist these teens do a subject they neither like nor need, assuming there is room in other non language classes??

DeVore

I presume if its a private school they can insist (though I am not a lawyer!).

Always seemed kinda silly to force the issue , but also seems silly not to learn a third language.... </opinion>

I believe its the schools decision as there is certainly nothing in the LC to say you must sit a third language.

DeV.

Bella mamma

DeVore wrote: »

I presume if its a private school they can insist (though I am not a lawyer!).

Always seemed kinda silly to force the issue , but also seems silly not to learn a third language.... </opinion>

I believe its the schools decision as there is certainly nothing in the LC to say you must sit a third language.

DeV.

Both public schools. Ours is a big VEC community college, great school, bit surprised with the blanket "No, he has to do it". Will politely protest until they detract :cool:.

Disagree (vehemently!) that it seems silly not to learn a 3rd language thou appreciate opinions. Seeing the struggles here with Spanish; doing something he'll prob have little use of ever (OK, can say that about others too!); but the real point being he has a real interest in other subjects.

**Timbuk2**

You don't *have* to do a third language, but I would definitely recommend one, as not doing one can exclude you from a lot of third level courses (even ones that aren't relevant to languages).

From the NUI website:
A third language must be included among the other subjects for Arts, Human Sciences, Law, Social Science, Commerce, Medicine and Health Sciences and some other degrees.

Examples of NUI colleges include NUI Maynooth, NUI Galway, UCC and UCD - so as you can see, he would be ruling out a large chunk of courses just by not doing a third language. It doesn't even have to be higher level, as long as your son does a third language and passes it.

I personally didn't have a lot of time for languages, I wasn't good at them (much preferred maths and accounting), but did French just for matriculation purposes in universities. I'm in UCD now, which I couldn't be if I didn't do French, despite the fact I haven't used it once since the LC :P

Canard

One thing to keep in mind is that the Spanish, French and German classes might be on at the same time and maybe they cant accomodate someone not doing it.

Bella mamma

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

You don't *have* to do a third language, but I would definitely recommend one, as not doing one can exclude you from a lot of third level courses (even ones that aren't relevant to languages).

From the NUI website:
A third language must be included among the other subjects for Arts, Human Sciences, Law, Social Science, Commerce, Medicine and Health Sciences and some other degrees.

Examples of NUI colleges include NUI Maynooth, NUI Galway, UCC and UCD - so as you can see, he would be ruling out a large chunk of courses just by not doing a third language. It doesn't even have to be higher level, as long as your son does a third language and passes it.

I personally didn't have a lot of time for languages, I wasn't good at them (much preferred maths and accounting), but did French just for matriculation purposes in universities. I'm in UCD now, which I couldn't be if I didn't do French, despite the fact I haven't used it once since the LC :P

Wow! That's surprising (to me). His potential course choices (long road yet) aren't on that listing but I get it. The other girl is aiming for medicine so that's that so.

He's doing pass Irish and won't want to do a 7th subject. Will check out those "some other degrees" and put the whole picture to him.

I hated doin German. Used to put the same pile of phrases into every other answer, poor examiner . Hope your course going well. Thanks.

Bella mamma

Patchy~ wrote: »

One thing to keep in mind is that the Spanish, French and German classes might be on at the same time and maybe they cant accomodate someone not doing it.

:eek:

QueenOfLeon

Make sure you have researched which universities and ITs require a 3rd language, as every college has a set of requirements which you must meet to get into any course.

This Qualifax link lets you search for courses which do and do not need certain subjects. In the drop down menu for Leaving Cert Subjects use the "Third Language" option.

As regards the girl wanting to do medicine, Trinity is the only place which does not require a third language.

If he is only doing 6 subjects though, with one of them at pass level, he might want to consider picking an extra one anyway as a back up.

Bella mamma

QueenOfLeon wrote: »

Make sure you have researched which universities and ITs require a 3rd language, as every college has a set of requirements which you must meet to get into any course.

This Qualifax link lets you search for courses which do and do not need certain subjects. In the drop down menu for Leaving Cert Subjects use the "Third Language" option.

As regards the girl wanting to do medicine, Trinity is the only place which does not require a third language.

If he is only doing 6 subjects though, with one of them at pass level, he might want to consider picking an extra one anyway as a back up.

Apologies, that should have been 8th subject, not 7th. So he's doing the 6Hs and pass Irish. It'll be computer science.........something science (not human or social), thou I know some options are computer science with business, so will research and also he case he wants to add the business options.

Thanks for the link, excellent.

It's great to get such prompt, knowledgeable, thought-out and interested answers from everyone. Thanks guys!

thisisadamh

I am in 6th year now and I too like/much better at non language subjects. But I still chose a third language to be safe as I did not want to rule myself out of courses. I am doing French and Irish on pass and I am doing Applied Maths outside of school so I have 8 subjects and the two pass languages wont be counted, but I still have the third language if the college requires it.

So my opinion is to do the third language on the pass and do an 8th subject like applied maths or some other sciencey subject outside of school.

Adam

spurious

Patchy~ wrote: »

One thing to keep in mind is that the Spanish, French and German classes might be on at the same time and maybe they cant accomodate someone not doing it.

This. There has to be some order in schools.

You can't have people taking whatever class they want whenever they want. The school can't change the whole timetable just because one student doesn't want to do one subject (or one in a band of subjects, e.g. languages). There really is enough difficulty for schools at the moment trying to offer languages at two levels without also having to offer an alternative subject or supervise someone who decided they didn't want to do a particular subject.

Bella mamma

thisisadamh wrote: »

I am in 6th year now and I too like/much better at non language subjects. But I still chose a third language to be safe as I did not want to rule myself out of courses. I am doing French and Irish on pass and I am doing Applied Maths outside of school so I have 8 subjects and the two pass languages wont be counted, but I still have the third language if the college requires it.

So my opinion is to do the third language on the pass and do an 8th subject like applied maths or some other sciencey subject outside of school.

Adam

Thanks Adam. Would it not have been easier to do the honours Applied Maths IN school and the pass French outside, assuming this combination was allowed and the teaching was (somewhat) equivalent? Am thinking that there are more classes (teaching)/exams/support generally (well, depends!) etc. IN school, and would be less cost? His school does not offer Applied Maths. That seems usual?

Would be looking at a Computer Science/technology degree, I need to make sure that we don't out rule him from any of these courses should he chose to apply for one with a Business combo, and that combo needs a 3rd language. Very much leaning towards NOT doing the 3rd language. He has no enjoyment/aptitude for it.

He's thinking of Physics + Chemistry + Biology + Business + either Economics or Geography. Can anyone help on the latter choice pls? (was gonna put it on another current 'subject choice' thread but yez know him now!).

Bella mamma

spurious wrote: »

This. There has to be some order in schools.

You can't have people taking whatever class they want whenever they want. The school can't change the whole timetable just because one student doesn't want to do one subject (or one in a band of subjects, e.g. languages). There really is enough difficulty for schools at the moment trying to offer languages at two levels without also having to offer an alternative subject or supervise someone who decided they didn't want to do a particular subject.

Thanks! It looks like they want him to keep his options open v. timetable issues, as you pick from groups and there are more groups than number of subject choices. Also, I do have some cop-on and would not expect what you are suggesting. I don't know why you wrote that, even the tone is off kilter.

itsyuranan

Well if you count english

spurious

Bella mamma wrote: »

Thanks! It looks like they want him to keep his options open v. timetable issues, as you pick from groups and there are more groups than number of subject choices. Also, I do have some cop-on and would not expect what you are suggesting. I don't know why you wrote that, even the tone is off kilter.

They may find, as many schools are finding, that because of the latest cuts and the flood of retirements, they may need to adjust the 'choices' available in the school and make some more subjects or subject ranges compulsory.

Timetabling in schools today is a nightmare. It's like trying to juggle with one hand, while the Department keep hitting that hand.

itsyuranan

Its down to the collage course entry requirements no?

Bella mamma

spurious wrote: »

They may find, as many schools are finding, that because of the latest cuts and the flood of retirements, they may need to adjust the 'choices' available in the school and make some more subjects or subject ranges compulsory.

Timetabling in schools today is a nightmare. It's like trying to juggle with one hand, while the Department keep hitting that hand.

I absolutely accept those constraints exist and will, of course, be constrained by that should that be the "no, he has to do it" reason. Not looking to be treated any differently, this is a big school, 6 classes in each year and, in fairness to them, they do think of each student.

Bella mamma

itsyuranan wrote: »

Well if you count english

Went up to Tallaght library to get some book for his Irish (language) class and couldn't find the 'Irish Literature' section. It's was in the 'Foreign Languages' section. Amazing!

Bella mamma

itsyuranan wrote: »

Its down to the collage course entry requirements no?

Yes. Nothing he has looked at requires a 3rd language.

I made an error earlier - included biology by accident. My question should have been "He's thinking of Physics + Chemistry + Business + either Economics or Geography. Can anyone help on the latter choice pls?"

Danny93

Bella mamma wrote: »

Yes. Nothing he has looked at requires a 3rd language.

I made an error earlier - included biology by accident. My question should have been "He's thinking of Physics + Chemistry + Business + either Economics or Geography. Can anyone help on the latter choice pls?"

Well, it's hard for other people to choose between economics and geography, as it really is up to your son's preferences. I studied geography all through 5th year, and at the start of 6th year I gave it up and took up physics instead, because geography involved too much rote learning, and it wasn't all rocks/volcanoes/earthquakes etc. like I had hoped (there's quite a bit of socioeconomic stuff). I can't say too much about economics, although my friends that do it all expect to get A's and will be very disappointed otherwise, though it does have the same percentage of A1s as geography in the LC.

Keep in mind also that the biology, business and geography are all long courses, and, in my opinion, involve a lot more rote learning than most, not too sure about economics, though I think it involves more applying principles as opposed to just seeing a topic and vomiting out an essay.

It's a pity that the school doesn't do Applied Maths, it's a great subject, especially if he's doing physics and higher maths, and the course is quite short. Good luck to him anyway!

Oh, and there was a few people in my year that took up economics quite late and seem to do quite well, though the two teachers that do it here are brilliant. It might be possible to try one of the subjects for a few weeks then switch, dunno how the school would feel about that though.

Bella mamma

Danny93 wrote: »

Well, it's hard for other people to choose between economics and geography, as it really is up to your son's preferences. I studied geography all through 5th year, and at the start of 6th year I gave it up and took up physics instead, because geography involved too much rote learning, and it wasn't all rocks/volcanoes/earthquakes etc. like I had hoped (there's quite a bit of socioeconomic stuff). I can't say too much about economics, although my friends that do it all expect to get A's and will be very disappointed otherwise, though it does have the same percentage of A1s as geography in the LC.

Keep in mind also that the biology, business and geography are all long courses, and, in my opinion, involve a lot more rote learning than most, not too sure about economics, though I think it involves more applying principles as opposed to just seeing a topic and vomiting out an essay.

It's a pity that the school doesn't do Applied Maths, it's a great subject, especially if he's doing physics and higher maths, and the course is quite short. Good luck to him anyway!

Oh, and there was a few people in my year that took up economics quite late and seem to do quite well, though the two teachers that do it here are brilliant. It might be possible to try one of the subjects for a few weeks then switch, dunno how the school would feel about that though.

Thanks for that. Brave, thou probably smart move after an entire yr of Geography. Hope the Physics ended up much better for you.

He would defo be better at critical thinking than purely memorization, and he's not into bluffing/waffling essays as such and wouldn't be interested in the socioeconomic stuff (as in he'd get lost in it), but the volcanoes etc. would be great! I'll get the ecomonics syllabus and give him a look.

Re the Applied Maths - yeah, sounds like his thing, however being such a big school I guess there can't be everything, with resources limited and more in-demand subjects needing to be covered first.

**Timbuk2**

If you think he'd enjoy Applied Maths, definitely consider it outside of school. I did it outside of school, for two hours a week, during 5th and 6th year, and had the course completely finished by Christmas of 6th year (and we did exam papers from then on), some have even finished it quicker - it isn't a big course, there isn't nearly as much to be covered as, say, Mathematics in school.

Bella mamma

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

If you think he'd enjoy Applied Maths, definitely consider it outside of school. I did it outside of school, for two hours a week, during 5th and 6th year, and had the course completely finished by Christmas of 6th year (and we did exam papers from then on), some have even finished it quicker - it isn't a big course, there isn't nearly as much to be covered as, say, Mathematics in school.

Cool, will get the info for him and he can decide. Does seem like that may be the way to go from 3 of the replies. Thanks.

thisisadamh

Bella mamma wrote: »

Thanks Adam. Would it not have been easier to do the honours Applied Maths IN school and the pass French outside, assuming this combination was allowed and the teaching was (somewhat) equivalent? Am thinking that there are more classes (teaching)/exams/support generally (well, depends!) etc. IN school, and would be less cost? His school does not offer Applied Maths. That seems usual?

Would be looking at a Computer Science/technology degree, I need to make sure that we don't out rule him from any of these courses should he chose to apply for one with a Business combo, and that combo needs a 3rd language. Very much leaning towards NOT doing the 3rd language. He has no enjoyment/aptitude for it.

He's thinking of Physics + Chemistry + Biology + Business + either Economics or Geography. Can anyone help on the latter choice pls? (was gonna put it on another current 'subject choice' thread but yez know him now!).

Applied Maths was not offered in school as there is not a lot of interest in it. My school principal teaches applied maths thursday evenings and about 30 people attend form the Athlone Area which contains 5 secondary schools! So it is not a very popular subject. If you have Eircom you can do applied maths via study hub which your son could try, no cost so no loss to give it a shot.

It is the norm in school to do a third language and the school has to accomodate the majority of people.

He could always just put down french and then not take the exam and do his own work in the class. A few people did that in my year as they are doing subjects outside school. Use it as a free class.

If you live anywhere near Athlone I would definitely recommend coming to the applied maths classes, unless there are ones closer to you, ask around!

Adam