Here's my solution

Doc Ruby

To incompetent politicians: pay them the average industrial wage (€35,000 a year) while in office, with the difference between that and what they would otherwise get paid being held back.

When they finish their term in office hold a reward election at the same time as the normal election. If enough people are happy with their performance, they get to keep the rest of their pay as a lump sum. If not, they don't.

What do ye think.

i think we'd have even more short-term shortsighted measures like "free everything" being implemented just before the end of their terms

Latchy

Very genourous of you I think .Especially when many of them aren't worth the price of a stamp .

brandon_flowers

Doc Ruby wrote: »

To incompetent politicians: pay them the average industrial wage (€35,000 a year) while in office, with the difference between that and what they would otherwise get paid being held back.

When they finish their term in office hold a reward election at the same time as the normal election. If enough people are happy with their performance, they get to keep the rest of their pay as a lump sum. If not, they don't.

What do ye think.

This is not boards.lesotho - it is boards.ie

Fromthetrees

Doc Ruby wrote: »

To incompetent politicians: pay them the average industrial wage (€35,000 a year) while in office, with the difference between that and what they would otherwise get paid being held back.

When they finish their term in office hold a reward election at the same time as the normal election. If enough people are happy with their performance, they get to keep the rest of their pay as a lump sum. If not, they don't.

What do ye think.

No.

Sindri

Latchy wrote: »

Very genourous of you I think .Especially when many of them aren't worth the price of a stamp .

How much is it to stamp on them?

squod

Doc Ruby wrote: »

To incompetent politicians:.

You'll find very few ''incompetent'' politicians. They're all clever enough to screw people over.

Guill

Here's my solution

I think that's how Hitler started...

amacca

http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/1289112556.jpg

Latchy

Sindri wrote: »

How much is it to stamp on them?

12 months or more in the slammer .

Sindri

Latchy wrote: »

12 months or more in the slammer .

Oooooh I can slam things on them too?

Latchy

Sindri wrote: »

Oooooh I can slam things on them too?

What you do is your own buisness .Welcome to AH

EasyGame

bluewolf wrote: »

i think we'd have even more short-term shortsighted measures like "free everything" being implemented just before the end of their terms

Absolutely.

We already have a terrible culture in this country of politicians making vacuous promises that they're never held accountable for. FG/Lab were elected on many promises of which they haven't kept a single one. Giving the ruling party an incentive to create even more fancy yet baseless promises at election time would be a terrible idea.

I agree that politicians wages do need to come down. Not to the average industrial wage mind, but I see no reason that the Taoiseach get paid more than the leaders of significantly larger countries to the left and right of us.

That said, there are far bigger issues costing the country money than our politicians at the moment.

Doc Ruby

EasyGame wrote: »

We already have a terrible culture in this country of politicians making vacuous promises that they're never held accountable for.

Is this not a chance to hold them accountable since it would happen after their term in office. Break a load of promises, don't get paid.

shedweller

Wishful thinking. We have no say in how much they get paid. If we did, we'd have cut their wages by now. Anyway, its a drop in the ocean compared to how much we are being really shafted for.

Jimoslimos

No, sad though it is not paying them enough leads them further into the temptations of corruption. In essence what we do by paying them a generous wage is bribery not to take anyone else's money (or so it would be hoped!).

Certainly I don't agree with withholding pay based on populist decisions/mob rule dictating - sometimes the more successful a government "appears" the more damage they do overall - I'm sure there's an example somewhere in the world;)

But I do think TD wages should be linked to (note: not equal to) the average industrial wage.

Temptamperu

Jimoslimos wrote: »

No, sad though it is not paying them enough leads them further into the temptations of corruption. In essence what we do by paying them a generous wage is bribery not to take anyone else's money (or so it would be hoped!).

Certainly I don't agree with withholding pay based on populist decisions/mob rule dictating - sometimes the more successful a government "appears" the more damage they do overall - I'm sure there's an example somewhere in the world;)

But I do think TD wages should be linked to (note: not equal to) the average industrial wage.

I really hate the corruption excuse, Its to easy to say if we dont pay them x they will take bribes. You can tell if someone is living above theree means very easily and we could always have people in power audited every year to make sure they are on the up and up.
Politicians get way to much money and bonuses and credits for hotels and cars and drivers even there laundry bills paid. Why dont they have to dip into there wages for stuff everyone else in the country has to?

oppenheimer1

Doc Ruby wrote: »

To incompetent politicians: pay them the average industrial wage (€35,000 a year) while in office, with the difference between that and what they would otherwise get paid being held back.

When they finish their term in office hold a reward election at the same time as the normal election. If enough people are happy with their performance, they get to keep the rest of their pay as a lump sum. If not, they don't.

What do ye think.

Stupid idea... How about we don't elect incompetents in the first instance?

What is this nonsense I keep hearing about the AIW. Why shouldn't politicians get paid more than this? It is a very important job after all.

Jimoslimos

Temptamperu wrote: »

I really hate the corruption excuse, Its to easy to say if we dont pay them x they will take bribes. You can tell if someone is living above theree means very easily and we could always have people in power audited every year to make sure they are on the up and up.
Politicians get way to much money and bonuses and credits for hotels and cars and drivers even there laundry bills paid. Why dont they have to dip into there wages for stuff everyone else in the country has to?

You mightn't like the corruption excuse but that doesn't make it any less true. Also it applies across the board for all walks of life - who here wouldn't do an odd nixer on the side if they felt they weren't making enough from their basic wage?

Point is they're in an extremely important role for the country. Paying them the AIW is an insult to the importance of good government. If people really feel agrieved they should exercise their civic duty at the next election and vote them out.

Expenses, I agree are grossly abused - but that's not confined to Ireland, big scandals over the UK about it too.

Temptamperu

And who may I ask do we vote in Jim? The crowd we just voted out and then we will have the same bull**** and then vote in these again. We have been going in circles since this country got its own government and nothing changes.

Doc Ruby

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Stupid idea... How about we don't elect incompetents in the first instance?

Seeing as we don't have recall referendums in this country I can't think of a better way to light a fire under them. Might serve as a disincentive for this kind of malarky.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

What is this nonsense I keep hearing about the AIW. Why shouldn't politicians get paid more than this? It is a very important job after all.

Sure, let them keep their wage. But if they make a load of promises and break them, or fall asleep at the wheel, they better not expect to get paid. Call it a performance bonus if you like, common in most industries.

EasyGame

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Is this not a chance to hold them accountable since it would happen after their term in office. Break a load of promises, don't get paid.

The past two decades have proven that the average Irish voter has a very short memory and is easily bought with cheap promises. Fianna Fail still have more than 20% support and they knocked this country to its knees and stuck the barrel of an EU branded shotgun in its mouth. This 20% are still supporting them when the wounds are fresher than ever, the consequences of that party's actions are more apparent today than ever before. By the next general election that support will have risen once again, as the gobsh*te average Irish voter will wave his fist in anger at FF/Lab for the measures they had to implement, then off he'll go to vote for FF again on the back of more cheap promises.

It's a terrible cycle but it just serves as proof that the average electorate (not just in Ireland) is dumb and cheap.

The only thing such a bonus would do would be to perhaps prevent governments from making tough decisions that they have to make, in favour of staying popular to secure their end of term bonus. If the devastation that FF have brought can be forgotten about by more than 1/5 voters in this country, less than a year after we saw the country truly descend into crap, then you can bet the same short memories will be ripe for some cheap promises at the end of a relatively harmless government term.

Doc Ruby

EasyGame wrote: »

The past two decades have proven that the average Irish voter has a very short memory and is easily bought with cheap promises.

Ah but think about it - such a mechanism would mean the various politicians and parties would be killing one another to highlight the broken promises of one another. They'll do their best to remedy that short term memory problem...

...all by themselves.

shedweller

But can we do that? Actually force those we elect into power into a performance pay setup? Can we? If yes then do it now. If no, why not? That's what it boils down to.

Jimoslimos

Temptamperu wrote: »

And who may I ask do we vote in Jim? The crowd we just voted out and then we will have the same bull**** and then vote in these again. We have been going in circles since this country got its own government and nothing changes.

Six million dollar question that's very difficult to answer. I'll admit I'm as guilty as most of abusing politicians on here but overall I feel they're no better or worse than the constituents they represent.

We already have an adequate performance review system in the shape of elections - the problem is the performance metrics the electorate decide to apply, not the politicians themselves.

If people were prepared to look past the filling in of a few potholes in Kerry or the building of a school in Dublin things might change. Until then expect the current calibre of politician to continue.

We're lured by cheap election promises and hooked by not-so-cheap spending in our local constituency.

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Sure, let them keep their wage. But if they make a load of promises and break them, or fall asleep at the wheel, they better not expect to get paid. Call it a performance bonus if you like, common in most industries.

Common in most industries? Well it has proved most effective in banking.........

Also, I daresay Healy-Raes, Lowry, etc., would fufill most, if not all of their pre-election promises.

Doc Ruby

Jimoslimos wrote: »

We already have an adequate performance review system in the shape of elections - the problem is the performance metrics the electorate decide to apply, not the politicians themselves.

Its clearly not adequate though, and it would prevent performances like Cowen's in his disgraceful last term in office. Or just link the pay held back to the list of election promises made, if a promise was kept, the pay goes up a notch.

Enforcing honesty and competence by financial means isn't unusual, the guards do it all the time. Sure you can say, ah but isn't the law itself enough of a threat to keep them honest - maybe in a perfect world.

dxhound2005

EasyGame wrote: »

Absolutely.

We already have a terrible culture in this country of politicians making vacuous promises that they're never held accountable for. FG/Lab were elected on many promises of which they haven't kept a single one. Giving the ruling party an incentive to create even more fancy yet baseless promises at election time would be a terrible idea.

I agree that politicians wages do need to come down. Not to the average industrial wage mind, but I see no reason that the Taoiseach get paid more than the leaders of significantly larger countries to the left and right of us.

That said, there are far bigger issues costing the country money than our politicians at the moment.

Maybe if we put the politicians wages up to what private sector people like Michael O'Leary are able to earn then we could attract that sort of talent to run the country. Another example would be the people at the top of Paddy Powers paying themselves 5 or 7 times as much as the Taoiseach. These people are obviously much more talented than the types who put themselves forward for election and they would solve our problems in no time. O'Leary certainly has lots of bright ideas.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/kfgbcwmhkfkf/rss2/

doomsday

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Maybe if we put the politicians wages up to what private sector people like Michael O'Leary are able to earn then we could attract that sort of talent to run the country. Another example would be the people at the top of Paddy Powers paying themselves 5 or 7 times as much as the Taoiseach. These people are obviously much more talented than the types who put themselves forward for election and they would solve our problems in no time. O'Leary certainly has lots of bright ideas.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/kfgbcwmhkfkf/rss2/

thats the point isn't , most people who would be good at running the country are not interested in the job because they can earn more in private industry.
Why would Mick O'Leary or Willie Walsh or their like want to run for office, just to take a huge pay cut and a load of abuse when those who elected them decide they don't like their polocies after all.

juan.kerr

Doc Ruby wrote: »

To incompetent politicians: pay them the average industrial wage (€35,000 a year) while in office, with the difference between that and what they would otherwise get paid being held back.

When they finish their term in office hold a reward election at the same time as the normal election. If enough people are happy with their performance, they get to keep the rest of their pay as a lump sum. If not, they don't.

What do ye think.

Not that much of an incentive. Spend 20 or 30 years living on average industrial wage than have a decent retirement?

ilovesleep

Thread over in politics section and politics.ie:

There won't be any debt forgiveness while our establishment overpays themselves.

Here is hoping to god all christ all mighty this official from the EU. Our political class have been far too greedy in which many people woke up to during the bust. Here we are sinking deeper and deeper in a recession with a huge deficit and piling debt and all they care about is riding on the backs of the irish and eu taxpayers to fill up their own fcuking pockets while they create a system where by the ordinary people ignore the elephant in the room (the establishments bulging pockets) and begrudges and lays the blame upon others eg. the unemployed, single mothers, the private vs public sector, young vs old; happy to create such divisions to that people will spend their time nagging and ignoring the celtic tiger wage and lifestyle of the politicians.

Here's hoping they get a huge chop in their pay checks soon and very, very soon.

Doc Ruby

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Maybe if we put the politicians wages up to what private sector people like Michael O'Leary are able to earn then we could attract that sort of talent to run the country.

Nah, then you just get people who only want the money running for the position, you can pay too much. Its people who care about the country more that are ideal.

So lets say each politician makes a list of ten goals before every election. Anyone can see them, its in the public record.

For each goal they successfully achieve, they get a €20,000 bonus. Achieving all ten goals would bring them up approximately to their current wage, on top of the average industrial wage.

This means no nonsense promises, no going back on promises, and no end of term spending sprees in their constituencies.

I like it.