Landlord pps!

Bigdaddykul

My ex landlord is threatening to find me over un-paid rent that we cant agree on through my pps number which He asked for when I moved into the accommodation. Is this true that he can do this? Also is there no data protection act stopping this type of bullying?

Ray Palmer

Bigdaddykul wrote: »

My ex landlord is threatening to find me over un-paid rent that we cant agree on through my pps number which He asked for when I moved into the accommodation. Is this true that he can do this? Also is there no data protection act stopping this type of bullying?

Unpaid rent, not bullying you asking for you to pay it. It is very easy to find somebody with their PPS. While there are laws that mean not everybody can do it many people know somebody who can track you down.

It would take me about 10 minutes to get through to somebody who would do it for me. I can also find if you have a criminal record and what your taxable income was last year.

He can also go to the PRTB to chase you too. It just takes longer

Doop

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Unpaid rent, not bullying you asking for you to pay it. It is very easy to find somebody with their PPS. While there are laws that mean not everybody can do it many people know somebody who can track you down.

It would take me about 10 minutes to get through to somebody who would do it for me. I can also find if you have a criminal record and what your taxable income was last year.

He can also go to the PRTB to chase you too. It just takes longer

sorry, what????

Op the landlord having your PPS number is useless, he cannot do anything with it.

He may of course pursue you through the PRTB.

The_Honeybadger

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Unpaid rent, not bullying you asking for you to pay it. It is very easy to find somebody with their PPS. While there are laws that mean not everybody can do it many people know somebody who can track you down.

It would take me about 10 minutes to get through to somebody who would do it for me. I can also find if you have a criminal record and what your taxable income was last year.

He can also go to the PRTB to chase you too. It just takes longer

LOL

toexpress

To be fair if he has the PPS number he can find where you work. He is entitled to ask for rent that you owe him but then there are a few issues.

Firstly, he cannot come to your place of employment, this could be construed as harassment.

Secondly if he wishes to pursue you for rent then his solicitors office is the place for him, not your place of employment.

It sounds as though he wants to intimidate you into paying this money, if you do owe it I suggest that you pay it, if you don't then he wont bother pursuing you any further beyond a threat he is just chancing his arm

To be fair to RayPalmer and disbelief of his comments he is right, we all know someone that can trace someone down and a phone call will usually sort that right out

ProudDUB

OP, what does does "find you" mean? What is he going to do when he finds you? Does he intend to come to your home and physically or verbal threaten you if you don't pay what he thinks you owe him? Is he going to sue you? Is he going to go after you via the PRTB? How much money are we talking about? Do you think that it is worth his while to engage a solicitor or a debt collector to come after you?

Perhaps if you tell us the circumstances that led to the rental dispute between you, it might make the matter clearer. For example, if you were in a fixed term lease for a year, and you left after 5 months, then he is entitled to use all the legal means that are at his disposal to come after you for his lost rent. That is not bullying, especially if you willingly gave him your PPS number.

We all know that there is a back door in finding out information on other people if need be. If he has a contact in the Dept of Social Protection, or Revenue or the HSE, it wouldn't be hard for him to find out where you currently live. Is it legal? Nope. Can you prove that he did it? Nope.

If you do not want to divulge here what is going in, give Threshold a call. Or avail of the free legal advice that your local citizens information office can give you. They can advise you on whether or not he has a case. If they feel that he does not, and you produce the opinion of an expert, a good hearty eff off may be all it takes to get rid of him.

toexpress

ProudDUB wrote: »

OP, what does does "find you" mean? What is he going to do when he finds you? Does he intend to come to your home and physically or verbal threaten you if you don't pay what he thinks you owe him? Is he going to sue you? Is he going to go after you via the PRTB? How much money are we talking about? Do you think that it is worth his while to engage a solicitor or a debt collector to come after you?

Perhaps if you tell us the circumstances that led to the rental dispute between you, it might make the matter clearer. For example, if you were in a fixed term lease for a year, and you left after 5 months, then he is entitled to use all the legal means that are at his disposal to come after you for his lost rent. That is not bullying, especially if you willingly gave him your PPS number.

We all know that there is a back door in finding out information on other people if need be. If he has a contact in the Dept of Social Protection, or Revenue or the HSE, it wouldn't be hard for him to find out where you currently live. Is it legal? Nope. Can you prove that he did it? Nope.

If you do not want to divulge here what is going in, give Threshold a call. Or avail of the free legal advice that your local citizens information office can give you. They can advise you on whether or not he has a case. If they feel that he does not, and you produce the opinion of an expert, a good hearty eff off may be all it takes to get rid of him.

Starting with what is emboldened, they can only find out where he is living assuming he has updated his address with the Revenue. Otherwise it's where the person works based on their employer.

In regards to the Citizens Advice Centre giving advice in regards to the Landlord having a case I think this is just a nonsense really. We all know that each story has three sides. Therefore based on the side that the OP provides the Citizens Advice Centre cannot provide such an opinion and it is not their place to provide legal opinion

ProudDUB

The same can be said of any dispute between two parties on an given matter under the sun. If the landlord goes to see his solicitor, he is only getting one side of the story too. If there is legal advice on offer and it is free, why should the OP not take it?

Dyr

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Unpaid rent, not bullying you asking for you to pay it. It is very easy to find somebody with their PPS. While there are laws that mean not everybody can do it many people know somebody who can track you down.

It would take me about 10 minutes to get through to somebody who would do it for me. I can also find if you have a criminal record and what your taxable income was last year.

He can also go to the PRTB to chase you too. It just takes longer

You should put that in your sig so everyone can know exactly what you are straight away.

User Friendly

Bambi wrote: »

You should put that in your sig so everyone can know exactly what you are straight away.

someone like this?:D

gurramok

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It would take me about 10 minutes to get through to somebody who would do it for me. I can also find if you have a criminal record and what your taxable income was last year.

Admitting to a criminal offence are we?

The landlord can track you down through illegal means, he cannot force you to pay unless he had a gun in your face if you know what I mean.

relax carry on

Bigdaddykul wrote: »

My ex landlord is threatening to find me over un-paid rent that we cant agree on through my pps number which He asked for when I moved into the accommodation. Is this true that he can do this? Also is there no data protection act stopping this type of bullying?

I am not sure how by having you PPS, the landlord will track you down. I know of no government agency which will give your personal information (address, work details etc) to a third party to allow them to track you down.
Having said that, if there was a dispute between you and your landlord, contact the PRTB, to get your version on record.

Bigdaddykul

Lol. Thanks for the interesting comments.

It's a dispute over unpaid rents which he knowingly is adding on more money eg he never deducted the deposit and there is about 400 euros unaccounted for that I paid on his records. Unfortunately with moving I have misplaced receipts etc so there is around 900 euro more he is adding to the arrears. Hes been constantly phoning and harassing me. Then in a last text he said he is taking legal action- (this guy is a manager of a rental company that rents out apartments to students). I'm not a student but when I moved in I remember him telling me that he needed to use a students name to say they were 'living' in the apt with me to make it within his rules etc. So he might have done something illegal anyways. But in the text he said he has my pps number which will be 'passed on to obtain my address! I'm not really comfortable that someone can find out that information so easily in this day and age. In the north if you were caught at that ****e you were breaking the data protection act that could lead to conviction etc.

Ray Palmer

gurramok wrote: »

Admitting to a criminal offence are we?

The landlord can track you down through illegal means, he cannot force you to pay unless he had a gun in your face if you know what I mean.

It is actually funnier that people think it is difficult. Not sure how illegal it is to ask a friend can they tell you something not sure exactly how they get the information.:cool: They may be breaking their terms of employment but not essentially illegal.

I'm sure if somebody stole money from you that would be fine with you and you wouldn't bother trying to find them.

not even wrong

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is actually funnier that people think it is difficult. Not sure how illegal it is to ask a friend can they tell you something not sure exactly how they get the information.:cool: They may be breaking their terms of employment but not essentially illegal.

Under the Data Protection Act it is a criminal offence "for any employee [...] to knowingly disclose personal data without the prior authority of the data controller on whose behalf the data were processed."

Your "friend" is a criminal and you are soliciting criminal behaviour.

cafecreme

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is actually funnier that people think it is difficult. Not sure how illegal it is to ask a friend can they tell you something not sure exactly how they get the information.:cool: They may be breaking their terms of employment but not essentially illegal.

I'm sure if somebody stole money from you that would be fine with you and you wouldn't bother trying to find them.

If somebody steals from me I would use the normal channels to make a complaint. I dont think owning a piece of property makes anyone entitled to break the law. Your "contacts" are working for the state and as such it is illegal for them to abuse citizens personal data in this way, I suppose the moral of this story is dont give landlords your PPS number as some of them are unscrupulous criminals.
If your landlord tracks you down you should complain to the Data Protection Commissioners-if your landlord is a Garda you should complain to the Garda Ombudsman, same for DSP or Revenue employees. try and remember if he has boasted about contacts in any of these areas. If you have no idea which state sevice he and/or his cronies abused to find you contact the broadsheets, I'm sure they'd love to do another public service bashing/big brother type abuse article and would easily discover who his contact is. I work in the public service and any abuse of data protection laws is taken very seriously in my area (education).
I suspect your landlord is bluffing, most jokers acting the hard man are. If he could track you down he'd hardly warn you about it, would he? He'd be on your doorstep by now. Do the right thing and register with the PRTB BigDaddy, if nothing else it will ease your mind.

The_Honeybadger

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is actually funnier that people think it is difficult. Not sure how illegal it is to ask a friend can they tell you something not sure exactly how they get the information.:cool: They may be breaking their terms of employment but not essentially illegal.

I'm sure if somebody stole money from you that would be fine with you and you wouldn't bother trying to find them.

In fairness we don't know the full story, it's not for you to say that the OP stole anything. PTRB is the way forward for something like this, not going off on some sort of Jason Bourne-esque quest to find and intimidate former tenants.

In any case OP I would guess your ex LL is bluffing about coming to your home to threaten you or whatever, most people know the implications of this type of behavior.

OP if you acknowledge that you owe something why not sit down with the guy and see where the misunderstanding arose, and pay what you owe. From your posts I get the feeling that you know you owe some money, this is wrong IMO, and you should settle up, however much of a pr**k the guy is.

toexpress

ProudDUB wrote: »

The same can be said of any dispute between two parties on an given matter under the sun. If the landlord goes to see his solicitor, he is only getting one side of the story too. If there is legal advice on offer and it is free, why should the OP not take it?

Indeed, and that is why the solicitor who would be engaged would write to the other side or their solicitor as the case may be, try to reach an arrangement and if this fails they bring it before a judge and let him/her decide on the situation.

It's why we have a court system and as I say it is not the place of the Citizens Advice Centre to be offering legal opinion, they are not a legal service and are not trained in law so therefore they cannot provide anything other than a laymans perspective on the situation which can often be more dangerous and damaging than just going to a solicitor in the first place.

Aside from anything else, if the OP feels that he/she is in some way under a threat or at risk then the place for him/her is their nearest Garda Station

User Friendly

toexpress wrote: »

It's why we have a court system and as I say it is not the place of the Citizens Advice Centre to be offering legal opinion, they are not a legal service and are not trained in law so therefore they cannot provide anything other than a laymans perspective on the situation which can often be more dangerous and damaging than just going to a solicitor in the first place.

The citizens advice centre in Ennis has a solicitor:)

toexpress

User Friendly wrote: »

The citizens advice centre in Ennis has a solicitor:)

I'm sure they have, but when you no doubt have to make an appointment to see this solicitor, who may be connected to the FLAC crowd just taking legal opinion from Monica or Maggie who mans the phones while the kids are at school and can tell you about her friend Martha who had a problem with her landlord, Mick and what she did is not really the way to approach it

ProudDUB

Any chance of you repeating that, in English next time?

If the OP is in arrears on rent, I doubt if he/she can afford to engage a solicitor to sort this matter out for them. My local citizens info office also has a solicitor available on Wednesdays. Getting free legal aid from them is not the best way to handle it. Going to a solicitor who specialized in this field is. But if the OP can not afford that, why not take advantage of the next best thing? What is the alternative. Sit back and do nothing and worry him/herself to death?

User Friendly

ProudDUB wrote: »

Any chance of you repeating that, in English next time?

If the OP is in arrears on rent, I doubt if he/she can afford to engage a solicitor to sort this matter out for them. My local citizens info office also has a solicitor available on Wednesdays. Getting free legal aid from them is not the best way to handle it. Going to a solicitor who specialized in this field is. But if the OP can not afford that, why not take advantage of the next best thing? What is the alternative. Sit back and do nothing and worry him/herself to death?

i couldnt make head nor tail of it either

CricketDude

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Unpaid rent, not bullying you asking for you to pay it. It is very easy to find somebody with their PPS. While there are laws that mean not everybody can do it many people know somebody who can track you down.

It would take me about 10 minutes to get through to somebody who would do it for me. I can also find if you have a criminal record and what your taxable income was last year.

He can also go to the PRTB to chase you too. It just takes longer

LOL. We must work in the same place. Amazing how easy it is to find someone with very little info when you know how to use that info. People just wouldnt believeit.

steddyeddy

CricketDude wrote: »

LOL. We must work in the same place. Amazing how easy it is to find someone with very little info when you know how to use that info. People just wouldnt believeit.

You would be amazed at the amount of criminal behaviour that is easy I think the point isnt how difficult it may be to do but the legality of passing on information to a third party so said third party can then track that person down.

CricketDude

steddyeddy wrote: »

You would be amazed at the amount of criminal behaviour that is illegal I think the point isnt how difficult it may be to do but the legality of passing on information to a third party so said third party can then track that person down.

I know. I see it done at work every day.

The_Conductor

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is actually funnier that people think it is difficult. Not sure how illegal it is to ask a friend can they tell you something not sure exactly how they get the information.:cool: They may be breaking their terms of employment but not essentially illegal.

I'm sure if somebody stole money from you that would be fine with you and you wouldn't bother trying to find them.

Its very illegal to ask a friend in Revenue (or where-ever) to find out this information for you- they risk getting fired alongside criminal sanctions. Contrary to what you read in the newspapers- civil servants loose their jobs every year for a lot less than you are suggesting your friend do..........

shangri la

not even wrong wrote: »

Under the Data Protection Act it is a criminal offence "for any employee [...] to knowingly disclose personal data without the prior authority of the data controller on whose behalf the data were processed." Your "friend" is a criminal and you are soliciting criminal behaviour.

if that ever happened to me I would have the full extent of the law on both of them although it would be difficult to prove.

shangri la

Out of curiosity if someone showed up on my doorstep having got that information from a state employee how do I go about doing them to the full extent?

Ray Palmer

shangri la wrote: »

Out of curiosity if someone showed up on my doorstep having got that information from a state employee how do I go about doing them to the full extent?

How would you know where they got the information?

The OP asked could it be done and the answer is yes. How you prove they tracked you down is actually more difficult. People want to bang on how this is illegal to obtian the information but unprovable thus not much help.

A lot of the ways they catch employees looking information they shouldn't is on the live systems which have audit trails. Most place have test and training systems that have generic users. Which effectively mean they don't have audit trails. Others have direct acces to the DBs which means a simply query without any audit trail. You would need to know their contac and also how they looked up the information.

BostonB

http://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-use-database-to-check-up-on-daughters-boyfriends-196134-Aug2011/

Indeed.

Kinda off the subject though. I would have thought they way forward here is to lodge a dispute with the PRTB

odds_on

BostonB wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-use-database-to-check-up-on-daughters-boyfriends-196134-Aug2011/

Indeed.

Kinda off the subject though. I would have thought they way forward here is to lodge a dispute with the PRTB

Unfortunately, the PRTB is amazingly slow in most cases and people (tenants or landlords) do not want to wait a year or more for an adjudication.

Originally posted by Ray Palmer
How would you know where they got the information?

The OP asked could it be done and the answer is yes. How you prove they tracked you down is actually more difficult. People want to bang on how this is illegal to obtain the information but unprovable thus not much help.

A lot of the ways they catch employees looking information they shouldn't is on the live systems which have audit trails. Most place have test and training systems that have generic users. Which effectively mean they don't have audit trails. Others have direct access to the DBs which means a simply query without any audit trail. You would need to know their contact and also how they looked up the information.

This is Ireland, let it be known that this does happen here. Don't kid yourself that it doesn't. There are many things that are illegal but happen. Some are easier to find out others no so easy.

Dyr

Ray Palmer wrote: »

How would you know where they got the information?

The OP asked could it be done and the answer is yes. How you prove they tracked you down is actually more difficult. People want to bang on how this is illegal to obtian the information but unprovable thus not much help.

A lot of the ways they catch employees looking information they shouldn't is on the live systems which have audit trails. Most place have test and training systems that have generic users. Which effectively mean they don't have audit trails. Others have direct acces to the DBs which means a simply query without any audit trail. You would need to know their contac and also how they looked up the information.

Theoretically I would imagine the first step would be having the gardas take all that yummy data boards.ie will have recorded about a landlord who bragged about breaking the law on their forums, once they figure out who that landlords tenants are/were then the audit trail for who accessed their data in revenue or wherever is usually fairly straightforward. Once they have the culprit.. happy ending for society

Ray Palmer

Bambi wrote: »

Theoretically I would imagine the first step would be having the gardas take all that yummy data boards.ie will have recorded about a landlord who bragged about breaking the law on their forums, once they figure out who that landlords tenants are/were then the audit trail for who accessed their data in revenue or wherever is usually fairly straightforward. Once they have the culprit.. happy ending for society

That is even funnier. Who do you think is going to spend their time getting court orders to track people down based on a claim on the internet?

If you look back you will also see I stated I can not that I did :cool:

Never bragged about commiting a crime just said it was possible. Wonder which of the many source that this data can be kept are they going to check and the connection to me or others. Histerically funny and absent of actual thought

Mance Rayder

That is totally illegal and threatening behaviour. It's also BS!

So the landlord is just going to call up Social welfare or revenue and demand contact details from them by quoting your pps?

I suppose they have a special "Landlord hunting rent evader" Hotline for this. :rolleyes:

Tell him to F*** off or you will report him.:cool:

BostonB

I don't think anyone was suggesting they could get the information a legal route.

shangri la

Ray Palmer wrote: »

How would you know where they got the information?

The OP asked could it be done and the answer is yes. How you prove they tracked you down is actually more difficult. People want to bang on how this is illegal to obtian the information but unprovable thus not much help.

A lot of the ways they catch employees looking information they shouldn't is on the live systems which have audit trails. Most place have test and training systems that have generic users. Which effectively mean they don't have audit trails. Others have direct acces to the DBs which means a simply query without any audit trail. You would need to know their contac and also how they looked up the information.

Possibly get the guards to question them because they are "harassing me" at my home/place of work and hope they crack under pressure and give up their friend.

Turn around and ask for compensation for invasion of privacy and emotional distress / state employee loses their job.

Have the last laugh.









Seriously though, having been hit, bruised, fallen down and been hurt in businesses I have never even considered sueing anybody but if someone illegally obtained any of my information from the revenue or any other state agency I would crucify them as much as possible through the courts and the ombudsmen and I wouldn't stop until I had done them as much as I possibly could so you would want to be careful how you use any information you get on someone.

Ray Palmer

shangri la wrote: »

Possibly get the guards to question them because they are "harassing me" at my home/place of work and hope they crack under pressure and give up their friend.

Turn around and ask for compensation for invasion of privacy and emotional distress / state employee loses their job.

Have the last laugh.

If he harrases him. If the guards get involved (they won't). If he cracks

Living in a dream world about what is likely to happen. All the op has stated is the LL said they would be able to find him. The answer to this is yes he can. LL never threatened to harrase him just that he could find him and would pursue him. Other people have said this is harrasement I don't think it is. Contacting somebody about unpaid rent isn't harrasment. LL has not claimed they will do anything more

Ravenid

I'm not a student but when I moved in I remember him telling me that he needed to use a students name to say they were 'living' in the apt with me to make it within his rules etc.

If he has put down anyone but you as the tenant he cannot go to any government body as he's illegally declared the tenant to the government. The PPS threat is just that, a threat. He can't use that against you in anyway. Go to the PRTB yourself and log a complaint, explain the situation to them and get your record registered with them, then tell him you have done so. From then on he has to go through the PRTB as the issue is in arbitration.

If you have issues like this dont wait and see before going to the PRTB just go. 90% of these sort of cases are dropped before anything comes back from the PRTB. Unless the landlords complaint is valid then well should have paid your rent.

shangri la

You know what OP, I don't agree with running out on rent owed, lost dockets and the other bullsh1t you mentioned.

You owe money, simple as that.

He can easily get your information (illegally) but the flip side of that coin is that if he does not have you registered with the PRTB/paid tax on the rent that puts you in a bargaining position so drop all the lost lodgment slips bollocks and make a compromise with him and move on.

shangri la

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If he harrases him. If the guards get involved (they won't). If he cracks

A lot of people that would obtain this info would be someone with a cousin/brother working in the social department ect that would have heard them brag in the pub they can find anyone and wouldnt know how much trouble they can find themselves and their friend in and would drop the goods at the first sign of a garda calling to the door.

If you claim someone is harassing you at your home/place of work the guards will make an appearance which is all it might take.

Ray Palmer

shangri la wrote: »

A lot of people that would obtain this info would be someone with a cousin/brother working in the social department ect that would have heard them brag in the pub they can find anyone and wouldnt know how much trouble they can find themselves and their friend in and would drop the goods at the first sign of a garda calling to the door.

If you claim someone is harassing you at your home/place of work the guards will make an appearance which is all it might take.

LOL
Becasue the Guards really will put in hours of investigation to find somebody who will stand up in a witness block saying how the LL bragged about getting the information.

Guards usually don't get involved in civil matters and are extremely unlikely to go looking for a LL for contacting somebody at their job for not paying rent.

Seriously gus have a bit of copon about what is likely and not what is possible.

shangri la

Ray Palmer wrote: »

LOL
Becasue the Guards really will put in hours of investigation to find somebody who will stand up in a witness block saying how the LL bragged about getting the information.

Guards usually don't get involved in civil matters and are extremely unlikely to go looking for a LL for contacting somebody at their job for not paying rent.

Seriously gus have a bit of copon about what is likely and not what is possible.

I have a feeling some day you are going to find out if that is true.

Ray Palmer

shangri la wrote: »

I have a feeling some day you are going to find out if that is true.

ROFL
The assumptions are hysterical.
Lets be clear I have never harrased anybody in my life and I have never got somebody to look up information for me illegally or otherwise.

Just pointed out it is easily within the capabilities of many people. People are dreaming if they think it is easy to get caught if you do gather such information. I have had complete access to national DBs and many can easily be circumvented on audit trails by many users and even with the audits you really have to know what you are looking for.

shangri la

Are you saying that should someone get a persons new address/place of work/tax details there is no recourse to finding out how they got these details?

I would assume my solicitor could make someone give a statement to the guards if I said they harrased me at my home and demanded to know how they got my address.

I know of an IT consultant that was fired from the guards for accessing the pulse system and gossiping in the pub. As far as I know he can't work in a state organisation again.

There are also criminal implications I am unaware of.

I will leave it at this, it would be difficult to prove but if someone wants to risk their state job/pension let them roll the dice.

steddyeddy

Ray Palmer wrote: »

shangri la wrote: »

I have a feeling some day you are going to find out if that is true.

ROFL
The assumptions are hysterical.
Lets be clear I have never harrased anybody in my life and I have never got somebody to look up information for me illegally or otherwise.

Just pointed out it is easily within the capabilities of many people. People are dreaming if they think it is easy to get caught if you do gather such information. I have had complete access to national DBs and many can easily be circumvented on audit trails by many users and even with the audits you really have to know what you are looking for.

You'll have to forgive me if I dont find that credible. Your posts consisted of how easy it is to illegally track people down without getting caught.

Ray Palmer

shangri la wrote: »

Are you saying that should someone get a persons new address/place of work/tax details there is no recourse to finding out how they got these details?
.

I am saying it is next to impossible to prove where the information came from. Simply saying a friend spotted him, they left a payslip behind or a letter covers it.

I leave it with unless you work with this information you are under the false impression it is very secure from abuse. Those of us who have dealt with it know much better.

I assure you it is done and people don't get caught, those that do get caught tend to be a bit on the dim side or very low on the access level.