Up-and-coming Independent candidates

pog it

Just wondering if people can tell us about independent candidates they have heard of, be they in their own constituency or not, and who may have a chance in the next elections.

It's obvious that unless we have more strong independent candidates to choose from, people will just revert to the main parties again and nothing will ever change in this country.

Pride Fighter

pog it wrote: »

Just wondering if people can tell us about independent candidates they have heard of, be they in their own constituency or not, and who may have a chance in the next elections.

It's obvious that unless we have more strong independent candidates to choose from, people will just revert to the main parties again and nothing will ever change in this country.

There is too many independents in this country at the moment. We need less of them not more. Independents are at 20% in the last poll, but that also includes some smaller parties. Hopefully that number will shrink.

pog it

Pride Fighter wrote: »

There is too many independents in this country at the moment. We need less of them not more. Independents are at 20% in the last poll, but that also includes some smaller parties. Hopefully that number will shrink.

Feel free to start your own thread about the merits or not of independent candidates!

I started this particular thread to learn about independent candidates around the country that I wouldn't have heard of, so either stay on-topic or post elsewhere.

Lockstep

A Dáil of Independents would be entertaining.
A bypass, a hospital and an IT in every village.

I'm fairy dubious about a lot of Independents given the Irish tendency to vote in Gene Pool candidates.

brimal

I think John McGuirk might do better next time if he decides to run again.

Didn't do well in the last election but he is young and is getting plenty of air time on radio and TV over the last year.

Godge

pog it wrote: »

Feel free to start your own thread about the merits or not of independent candidates!

I started this particular thread to learn about independent candidates around the country that I wouldn't have heard of, so either stay on-topic or post elsewhere.

you say you started this thread to learn about independent candidates yet look below at the OP.

pog it wrote: »

Just wondering if people can tell us about independent candidates they have heard of, be they in their own constituency or not, and who may have a chance in the next elections.

It's obvious that unless we have more strong independent candidates to choose from, people will just revert to the main parties again and nothing will ever change in this country.

The bit in bold is a statement that strongly implies that it is a good idea to have independent candidates. As if forms part of your OP, surely it can be debated.

So let me add my little bit. I would never vote to elect an independent candidate as they represent the worst of the FF-type small-town gombeenism that has ruined this country. They are typically one-issue candidates that are only interested in their local area or one national topic. They rarely have any grasp of national politics and policies and where they do it is generally warped. There may be a place for them in local government but not on the national stage. That can be applied to independents of any hue, be they Tony Gregory, Jackie Healy-Rae, Michael O'Leary or the current darlings, intellectual giants such as Mick Wallace, Ming Flanagan or Tom Fleming.

mikemac1

Michael Lowry may well step down at the end of this Dáil. Take the pension and step into the background

Someone from "Team Lowry" to step up next time
Team Lowry has four county councillors, a former Mayor of Thurles and other members of Urban District Councils around Tipp North

It's a machine I tell ya :pac:

Though I could not say who will step up next time and I would not assume it will be young Michéal Lowry

hallelujajordan

Go take a look at Ming Flanagan on Prime Time this week arguing that the government should invest in improved rolling stock to be put in place on a rail line between Ennis and Athenry that carries an average of 8 passengers per journey (at a subsidy of E80,000 per paying passenger) if you want to see the true value of independent candidates. .

Or look at the value that Jackie Healy-Rae has offered us over the years. . . Or Tony Gregory, holding the country to ransom on behalf of his Dublin Central constituency because he had the balance of power and he could. Or Mick Wallace, a man who is bankrupt in all but the rubber stamp, who doesn't seem to think he needs to pay his employees pension contributions and who seems to have gotten elected on the back of Wexfor Youths FC and his pink shirts. . .

We need young, professional politicians within an effective system of political parties. We do not need a bigger ragbag of pointless independents.

pog it

Helpful..

Mod: feel free to lock thread if you wish.

invinciblePRSTV

Lockstep wrote: »

A Dáil of Independents would be entertaining.
A bypass, a hospital and an IT in every village.

I'm fairy dubious about a lot of Independents given the Irish tendency to vote in Gene Pool candidates.

Not all indo's are gene pool candidates and/or are primarily concerned with local issues. For instance in the last GE we had the likes of Stephen Donnelly & Shane Ross elected, for my money they are 2 TD's who've performed quite well in the national interest imo even if if I don't share their specific ideology.

In addition, let's not forget that parochial interests are in no way confined to indo candidates. All of your criticisms of indo's can be be applied to the main parties as well, indeed party TD's have traditionally been as bad if not worse for localism then many indo's.

It's Irish political culture, rather then party affiliation or otherwise which fosters clientelism/localism.

Pride Fighter

pog it wrote: »

Helpful..

Mod: feel free to lock thread if you wish.

Why would a mod lock the thread? In your OP you stated....

pog it wrote: »

Just wondering if people can tell us about independent candidates they have heard of, be they in their own constituency or not, and who may have a chance in the next elections.

It's obvious that unless we have more strong independent candidates to choose from, people will just revert to the main parties again and nothing will ever change in this country.

The bit in bold was not quite so clear. I and others brought you to account on it, as you started a debate on independent candidates. I dont believe more independent candidates will improve things, and the bit in bold I felt left it open for debate.

Also others have answered your OP. Someone mentioned John McGuirk who ran in Cavan-Monaghan. Just cause you dont like how a debate is going, does not mean you should ask for the thread closed.

Pride Fighter

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Not all indo's are gene pool candidates and/or are primarily concerned with local issues. For instance in the last GE we had the likes of Stephen Donnelly & Shane Ross elected, for my money they are 2 TD's who've performed quite well in the national interest imo even if if I don't share their specific ideology.

In addition, let's not forget that parochial interests are in no way confined to indo candidates. All of your criticisms of indo's can be be applied to the main parties as well, indeed party TD's have traditionally been as bad if not worse for localism then many indo's.

It's Irish political culture, rather then party affiliation or otherwise which fosters clientelism/localism.

Shane Ross is FG gene pool, just FYI.

hallelujajordan

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Not all indo's are gene pool candidates and/or are primarily concerned with local issues. For instance in the last GE we had the likes of Stephen Donnelly & Shane Ross elected, for my money they are 2 TD's who've performed quite well in the national interest imo even if if I don't share their specific ideology.

In addition, let's not forget that parochial interests are in no way confined to indo candidates. All of your criticisms of indo's can be be applied to the main parties as well, indeed party TD's have traditionally been as bad if not worse for localism then many indo's.

It's Irish political culture, rather then party affiliation or otherwise which fosters clientelism/localism.

I hear this quite a lot . . and it baffles me.

What specifically has Shane Ross done in the past year that earns him the ranking of 'performed quite well' . .

Also, does no-one else think it is somewhat inappropriate that he should continue as the Business Editor of a national newspaper while he is a TD ? Isn't there a conflict of interest there somewhere ?

View

pog it wrote: »

It's obvious that unless we have more strong independent candidates to choose from, people will just revert to the main parties again and nothing will ever change in this country.

And what evidence is there that independents will ever change anything? What are you looking for? An Irish revolution with Jackie Healy-Rae standing in for Marianne leading the people in their struggle for Liberty?

Lockstep

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Not all indo's are gene pool candidates and/or are primarily concerned with local issues. For instance in the last GE we had the likes of Stephen Donnelly & Shane Ross elected, for my money they are 2 TD's who've performed quite well in the national interest imo even if if I don't share their specific ideology.

In addition, let's not forget that parochial interests are in no way confined to indo candidates. All of your criticisms of indo's can be be applied to the main parties as well, indeed party TD's have traditionally been as bad if not worse for localism then many indo's.

It's Irish political culture, rather then party affiliation or otherwise which fosters clientelism/localism.

At least the party whip system means they have to act outside of parocial interests at times. Healy-Rae holding the government to ransom is a good example of what Independents can do.

If you want to picture a government of Independents, look at the US system with its weak whip system and Congressmen and women require constant porkbarrel spending before agreeing to vote.

brimal

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I hear this quite a lot . . and it baffles me.

What specifically has Shane Ross done in the past year that earns him the ranking of 'performed quite well' . .

Also, does no-one else think it is somewhat inappropriate that he should continue as the Business Editor of a national newspaper while he is a TD ? Isn't there a conflict of interest there somewhere ?

I actually think Shane Ross has been a disappointment.

I have been impressed with Stephen Donnelly however.

Godge

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Not all indo's are gene pool candidates and/or are primarily concerned with local issues. For instance in the last GE we had the likes of Stephen Donnelly & Shane Ross elected, for my money they are 2 TD's who've performed quite well in the national interest imo even if if I don't share their specific ideology.

.

Stephen Donnelly fits my profile of issue-specific candidates (Mildred Fox was a previous Wicklow one). He ran on the bail-out and the economy. Beyond that, who knows what his views are? How developed are they? His policy on health on the website relates only to mental health. Does he favour a woman's right to choose.


http://www.stephendonnelly.ie/from-the-chamber/priority-questions-on-the-hiring-moratorium/

http://www.stephendonnelly.ie/from-the-chamber/priority-questions-on-the-hiring-moratorium/

Even then, as you can see from the attached, since being elected he has moved towards being a locally-focussed TD describing the budget as anti-Wicklow is as parochial as you can get before asking questions about St. Colman's Hospital in Rathdrum. Truly a man of the nation.

Shane Ross is a FG gene-pool candidate, previously a failed candidate for them.

invinciblePRSTV

Godge wrote: »

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Not all indo's are gene pool candidates and/or are primarily concerned with local issues. For instance in the last GE we had the likes of Stephen Donnelly & Shane Ross elected, for my money they are 2 TD's who've performed quite well in the national interest imo even if if I don't share their specific ideology.

.

Stephen Donnelly fits my profile of issue-specific candidates (Mildred Fox was a previous Wicklow one). He ran on the bail-out and the economy. Beyond that, who knows what his views are? How developed are they? His policy on health on the website relates only to mental health. Does he favour a woman's right to choose.

On Donnelly, running on an anti- bailout and economy platform hardly marks him out as a politician pre-occupied with local issues does it? This is in marked contrast to Mildred Fox who was very much local only in her political concerns.

As for what his views on abortion are, does it matter? I certainly wouldn't judge a candidate on the basis of one issue as trivial as that one is.

As for Ross, he puts on a good show. That's enough for me.

Biggins

Just on the point of independents and their validity/usefulness, I don't think a Dail full of independents is a good thing - but I DO feel that always a few are needed if (a) to only keep the rest of the mob in touch with reality and honest and (b) to remind us that as the end of the day, for all the numbers we might quote about people, we are dealing with single individual lives.

A single independent might be less prone to lobbying pressure too from the big boys who hint at parties about pulling funding and other support?

invinciblePRSTV

Lockstep wrote: »

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Not all indo's are gene pool candidates and/or are primarily concerned with local issues. For instance in the last GE we had the likes of Stephen Donnelly & Shane Ross elected, for my money they are 2 TD's who've performed quite well in the national interest imo even if if I don't share their specific ideology.

In addition, let's not forget that parochial interests are in no way confined to indo candidates. All of your criticisms of indo's can be be applied to the main parties as well, indeed party TD's have traditionally been as bad if not worse for localism then many indo's.

It's Irish political culture, rather then party affiliation or otherwise which fosters clientelism/localism.

At least the party whip system means they have to act outside of parocial interests at times. Healy-Rae holding the government to ransom is a good example of what Independents can do.

.

On JHR, along with a group of other indo's, Let's recall he had a specific agreement in place to vote with the governments of the day throughout their existence so while it can be portrayed that he held the country to ransom, what he was really doing was making sure they (FF\Green) held up their end of the agreement.

As for the party whip system, it has its plusses and minuses. Bad as American politics is with a weak whip system, given Ireland is an economic basketcase (again) gombeenarchy with a strong whip system,I don't know if a weak whip would be such a bad thing.

hallelujajordan

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

On Donnelly, running on an anti- bailout and economy platform hardly marks him out as a politician pre-occupied with local issues does it? This is in marked contrast to Mildred Fox who was very much local only in her political concerns.

As for what his views on abortion are, does it matter? I certainly wouldn't judge a candidate on the basis of one issue as trivial as that one is.

As for Ross, he puts on a good show. That's enough for me.

Interesting that you consider a politicians views on abortion to be 'trivial' . . Clearly, you have a much higher standard against which you judge . . i.e. how well they 'put on a show' . .

Lockstep

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

On JHR, along with a group of other indo's, Let's recall he had a specific agreement in place to vote with the governments of the day throughout their existence so while it can be portrayed that he held the country to ransom, what he was really doing was making sure they (FF\Green) held up their end of the agreement.

Which was to feather Kerry at the expense of the rest of country. Upholding a shoddy agreement,

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

As for the party whip system, it has its plusses and minuses. Bad as American politics is with a weak whip system, given Ireland is an economic basketcase (again) gombeenarchy with a strong whip system,I don't know if a weak whip would be such a bad thing.

Given how deep rooted our gombeenism is, I'd hazard a guess it would be much worse in Ireland, given the closeness of TDs to the electorate.

invinciblePRSTV

hallelujajordan wrote: »

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

On Donnelly, running on an anti- bailout and economy platform hardly marks him out as a politician pre-occupied with local issues does it? This is in marked contrast to Mildred Fox who was very much local only in her political concerns.

As for what his views on abortion are, does it matter? I certainly wouldn't judge a candidate on the basis of one issue as trivial as that one is.

As for Ross, he puts on a good show. That's enough for me.

Interesting that you consider a politicians views on abortion to be 'trivial' . . Clearly, you have a much higher standard against which you judge . . i.e. how well they 'put on a show' . .

Of course its trivial, are you telling me that you vote on the basis of what a GE candidate's views are on as narrow a topic as abortion above other issues like the economy or potholes? only wingnuts from either side of the divide would consider it as such for my money.

Lockstep

You view parish pump issues like potholes as more important for TDs than national issues like abortion?
Good lord.

Cardinal Richelieu

The Dermot Mulqueen for President website is still active.:D Perhaps he will run for the Dail. Reading his latest ramblings about the phony global war on AIDS I suspect he may be a poster on the conspiracy theory forum here.

invinciblePRSTV

Lockstep wrote: »

You view parish pump issues like potholes as more important for TDs than national issues like abortion?
Good lord.

I mentioning potholes was obviously tongue in cheek.

bleg

Lockstep wrote: »

A Dáil of Independents would be entertaining.
A bypass, a hospital and an IT in every village.

Parish pump politics occurs without independents. Look at the proposal for a university in the south east just because Hogan and Howlin are from the area.

goose2005

Lockstep wrote: »

You view parish pump issues like potholes as more important for TDs than national issues like abortion?
Good lord.

Unfortunately, the money allocated for potholes etc is largely in the hands of the Dail, so it actually does make sense to lobby TDs over it. Until control of minor stuff is given to local govt this will continue.

hallelujajordan

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Of course its trivial, are you telling me that you vote on the basis of what a GE candidate's views are on as narrow a topic as abortion above other issues like the economy or potholes? only wingnuts from either side of the divide would consider it as such for my money.

Of course I don't but I also wouldn't describe the abortion issue as trivial . .

It's a bit rich describing others as wingnuts when you have already acknowledged that you measure Shane Ross' performance based on how well he puts on a show !!

Gloomtastic!

Back on topic....

Finian McGrath's Independent Councillor side-kick, Damien O'Farrell, will probably make a play for the Labour Seat in Dublin North Central next time around. He's jumping on every bandwagon going and the two of them are quite good at publicising the fact.

Whether he is any good or not, i'm still waiting to find out!

Chucky the tree

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Of course I don't but I also wouldn't describe the abortion issue as trivial . .

It's a bit rich describing others as wingnuts when you have already acknowledged that you measure Shane Ross' performance based on how well he puts on a show !!

How else would you rate the performance of an independent candidate in opposition?

hallelujajordan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

How else would you rate the performance of an independent candidate in opposition?

By what they achieve in the Dail. . by their contribution to debates . . by the ideas / suggestions / draft legislations they put forward. . by how they conduct themselves in public debates . . there is a real job behind the show.

Godge

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

As for Ross, he puts on a good show. That's enough for me.

Billy Connolly puts on a good show, maybe you should ask him to run for the Dail.

Chucky the tree

hallelujajordan wrote: »

By what they achieve in the Dail. . by their contribution to debates . . by the ideas / suggestions / draft legislations they put forward. . by how they conduct themselves in public debates . . there is a real job behind the show.

What can an independent candidate achieve in the Dail? The real job behind the show is looking after your constituents and unless you live that area it's not going to be easy to see what they can do. Also, coming up with ideas/suggestions and how they conducting themselves in public must fall under the "putting on a good show".

raymon

You don't have to go to Kerry to see a parish pump being polished.
Shockingly Finian McGrath submitted a parliamentary question regarding a perspex smoking shelter at his local pub.

The country is in a ruin because of the FF he supported and all he is worried about is whether his local pub has a roof on its smoking shelter.

Having said that , I would rather have a bad independent , than anyone from FF

hallelujajordan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What can an independent candidate achieve in the Dail? The real job behind the show is looking after your constituents and unless you live that area it's not going to be easy to see what they can do. Also, coming up with ideas/suggestions and how they conducting themselves in public must fall under the "putting on a good show".

No .. absolutely not . . we have local politicians whose job it is to look after the local area, fill the potholes etc. . The job of our 166 TDs is to legislate.

Coming up with ideas and suggestions might be part of the show but the show can and often does exist independent of any concrete political action. . .

hallelujajordan

raymon wrote: »

You don't have to go to Kerry to see a parish pump being polished.
Shockingly Finian McGrath submitted a parliamentary question regarding a perspex smoking shelter at his local pub.

The country is in a ruin because of the FF he supported and all he is worried about is whether his local pub has a roof on its smoking shelter.

Having said that , I would rather have a bad independent , than anyone from FF

No thread is too good to be dragged into an anti-FF rant eh ?? And you wonder why I question your objectivity . . .

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

No thread is too good to be dragged into an anti-FF rant eh ?? And you wonder why I question your objectivity . . .

I refuse to engage with you on another off topic "objectivity" rant that goes on for page after page, in this thread, out of respect for other posters

I have had my say in relation to the op .

Sierra Oscar

Peter Matthews - because the way things are going he will not last as a FG deputy much longer.

dublinman1990

There is one independent in my constituency of Dun Laoghaire called Richard Boyd Barrett.

He works as the finance and education with the ULA.

Now, you have think he is good, but bloody hell he is so bad. He keeps linking his talks about the sale of Dun Laoghaire Harbour with the general view of the bankers and the economy. He keeps lagging on with the same rubbish over and over, it drives me mad.

He is very often seen in the Irish Media.

For arguments sake, I don't even know what his other form of employment or his 'Trade' as it is described.

Cardinal Richelieu

A few candidates might try out in the local elections first before making a run for the Dail if this government makes it past 2013. Certainly a stint in local government might have shown voters what a spoofer candidates like Wallace were without the added expense to the taxpayer of a Dail pension when he gets chucked out.

FF are doing a rebuild in Dublin North by appointing local party reps in each Ward who obviously will then make a run at the next local election. Not a major surprise that the rep in my Ward is the PRO of the local GAAAAA Club. Every local newspaper since his selection as rep has been calling him a "local man" even do he is from Cork.:rolleyes: Maybe Mehole Martin Grand plan is to Corkify the country by selecting exiled Corkonian candidates.

goose2005

Also look out for male candidates who lose out under the quota law to run as indo's.

pog it

goose2005 wrote: »

Also look out for male candidates who lose out under the quota law to run as indo's.

Only a problem if Good male candidates lose out. If it's more of the Brian Hayes make then bring it on, good bloody riddance. These guys have had their day.

goose2005

pog it wrote: »

Only a problem if Good male candidates lose out. If it's more of the Brian Hayes make then bring it on, good bloody riddance. These guys have had their day.

So Brian Hayes' sister/daughter/wife/niece, then?