Dublin Bus: Anyone else have trouble getting 'City Centre Fare' on Leap Card

mydarkstar

I bought a Leap Card this week and yesterday for the 1st time I asked for 'City Centre Fare' on the card - this was at a bus stop where it is a valid fare. The driver said the City Centre fare wasn't available on the Leap Card and that the machine shows €1.25 as the minimum Leap fare. He said I could pay €1.25 on the card or pay cash of €0.60. I argued that the dublinbus website says the CC Fare is €0.60 by cash and €0.50 on LeapCard. He said he didn't know about that but in the meantime I paid him cash.

Today I got the same bus - different driver - and asked for City Centre Fare and gave my Leap Card. The driver didn't say anything and I couldn't see what he charged me. I checked my balance when I got off the bus and my card was debited €1.25 for that journey.

I didn't mind the first driver cos he was polite about it, but the 2nd driver didn't have the decency to tell me what he was charging.

Is anyone else having trouble getting charged only €0.50 on the Leapcard?
I will ring Dublin Bus tomorrow and see what they have to say.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/City-Centre

Victor

I've got a city centre fare several times, so it is possible.

The driver needs to access it in the same way as usual.

mydarkstar

Victor wrote: »

I've got a city centre fare several times, so it is possible.

The driver needs to access it in the same way as usual.

Victor, can I ask - are you sure you were charged the City Centre fare on the card? I thought I only got charged 50c today but realised I was overcharged when I checked my balance.

goingnowhere

It works fine, poorly trained drivers are the problem

city centre fare.PNG

Victor

Definitely.

EDIT: LOL, those are only 20 minutes apart.

sitstill

I tried to get it 3 times. The first time it was grand but the other 2 times the drivers didn't know what to do and used excuses like "the card has no money on it". Very annoying.

The_Wrecker

goingnowhere wrote: »

It works fine, poorly trained drivers are the problem

city centre fare.PNG

Seems to be different buttons to the cash fare, i dont know how to access it on the machine either. Also make sure the driver has the correct stages set. Even with that i cant access the menu? The next time i see the man who held the course in Donnybrook i will seek more info.

goingnowhere

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Seems to be different buttons to the cash fare, i dont know how to access it on the machine either. Also make sure the driver has the correct stages set. Even with that i cant access the menu? The next time i see the man who held the course in Donnybrook i will seek more info.

Its easy

If the machine is at stage 24-26 / 74-76
Press the square button on the right side just below the screen
Now push the 3rd or 4th fare selection button on the right side of the screen (route dependent)
From there it should be as per normal

Its titled shopper fare not city centre fare which causes more confusion

AlekSmart

Goingnowhere:It works fine, poorly trained drivers are the problem

Asd the quick'n easy reaction guaranteed to get a loud cheer from the gallery,that's all true enough.

However for those looking for a somewhat more robust answer of sorts here goes.

The City Centre Fare,it's immediate predecessor the CentreLink Fare and the original of the species the Shoppers Fare all share a commonality of purpose.

Poor implementation and even poorer understanding of how to publicise and operate the things.

The situation worsened considerably when the Wayfarer TGX Machine was introduced and the previous location of that Fare Button was moved off the main screen onto a sub-menu.

To get to the CC Fare "button" requires 3 seperate pushes with a pause between each.

Added to this is the lack of an ability to issue a change ticket from that Menu,so such an action requires a further 2 botton pushes to return to the change ticket menu and a further two pushes to issue a change-ticket.

The situation with a Leap CC Fare is only improved to the extent that change-ticketing is no longer required,however the actual process to gain access to the CC Fare button still requires rooting about in a new sub-menu and further delving to find the CC Fare button.

A by the by on this is the total lack of clarity as to where the CC Fare zone begins and ends....now I always tend to recommend the Official Company Document from here.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/City-Centre/

The leaflet PDF is here....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/Global/CCF20Leaflet.pdf

Now that PDF has quite a well defined map with all the relevant routes (bar1) illustrated,plus a map with the relevant stops marked in yellow.

Notwithstanding that the Map is now hopelessly out of date in relation to route numbers,the actual CC Fare Zone remains clearly marked out.....or so one would think......:rolleyes:

However....when the CC Fare went live in conjunction with the College Green Bus-Gate,it suddenly became apparent that it was impossible to issue a CC Fare from St Stephens Green North,as it was between Stages 73 and 74 thus rendering a CC Fare ticket impossible to issue.

The knee-jerk reaction was to enable the Ticket Machine to issue the CCF from Stage 73,which is actually either Leeson St or Earlsfort Tce depending on Route number.
(NB: The above has to be read in conjunction with the reality that there are NO visible on-street Fare Stage markings)


However it needs to be noted that neither location is within the CCF zone.

What happened then,is to me indicative of a total lack of managerial interest in the integrity of the service or of the revenue implications....

The web-site is equally clear on this point..

Look out for the City Centre Fare sign shown to the right, which indicates the start of the City Centre fare zone.

...beside a picture of the striking Pink Flag which reads,City Centre Fare (Note the absence of the words "Start of").

Bearing all of this clarity of purpose in mind,somebody of equal but opposing clarity of purpose erected "End of City Centre Fare Zone" Pink Plates on Stops at Dorset St/Eccles Place (No14) and Adelaide Road (No1015),both locations far from the minds of the CCF originators.

What this has now enabled is the potential for a canny,savvy commuter to cease paying a €1.90 cash fare and replace it with a .50c Leap CCF.....now thats customer friendly surely....??

Thats the long version,but at least one of Mydarkstar's events sounds like unfamiliarity/laziness so is inexcusable.

Having said that,it's perhaps worth having a customer march into head-office and remind the denizens there that there is a spare-button on the Ticket Machine doing nuttin at the minute,which,if allocated to the CCF would totally eliminate the need for all the pahlavah....:rolleyes:

Carawaystick

notwithstanding Alex's explanation for the shambles that the city centre fare is, it is a criminal offence to have misleading advertising, where there is an imprisonment punishment available should a cranky district court judge decide is warranted.

Dublin bus and the nta would appear to offer a 50cent city centre fare on busses. if a reasonable consumer would be induced to alter their behaviour as a result of this advertising, then a criminal offence has happened, so if you decided to wait at a bus stop to get the cheap fare, then you have suffered. Ask the useless National consumer agency first and when nothing happens look up articles 40-45 of the national consumer act 2008(i think) and then make a complaint at your local garda station.

You have as much chance of satisfaction by emailing dublin bus and cc-ing leapcard to complain, cos when they tell you to email t'other, you can again cc them and say 'I already did'

you'll still be 75 cents down though.....

The_Wrecker

goingnowhere wrote: »

Its easy

If the machine is at stage 24-26 / 74-76
Press the square button on the right side just below the screen
Now push the 3rd or 4th fare selection button on the right side of the screen (route dependent)
From there it should be as per normal

Its titled shopper fare not city centre fare which causes more confusion

The 05 Vts seem to 'black out' icons when the square button is selected? Ive been knocking out these tickets for a long time.

Dyr

Wait...do you have to swipe the leap card AND tell the driver to issue a fare? thats daft even by dublin bus standards...

AlekSmart

Carawaystick wrote: »

notwithstanding Alex's explanation for the shambles that the city centre fare is, it is a criminal offence to have misleading advertising, where there is an imprisonment punishment available should a cranky district court judge decide is warranted.

Dublin bus and the NTA would appear to offer a 50cent city centre fare on busses. if a reasonable consumer would be induced to alter their behaviour as a result of this advertising, then a criminal offence has happened, so if you decided to wait at a bus stop to get the cheap fare, then you have suffered. Ask the useless National consumer agency first and when nothing happens look up articles 40-45 of the national consumer act 2008(i think) and then make a complaint at your local garda station.

You have as much chance of satisfaction by emailing dublin bus and cc-ing leapcard to complain, cos when they tell you to email t'other, you can again cc them and say 'I already did'

you'll still be 75 cents down though.....

I don't offer the account as an explanation,as it's simply an account of a set of facts which all come together in a totally disjointed manner to the benefit of absolutely NOBODY.

I firmly believe that in order to be in a position to deliver ANY service,the provider must get the basics right before tasking some lowly sort to deliver it.

The CC Fare is inexorably linked to the Fare-Stage identification issue and is the ABC of the Bus Service we supposedly operate.

I would repeat that NO amount of hi-tech equipment or massively expensive Training Programmes can be successful if the very BASIC elements of the service,such as the ability of the Passenger to identify their boarding location immediately,are not in place.

As Carawaystick points out,a relatively innocious incident over .75c can (and has) rapidly escalate into a full blown Circuit Court Case costing substantial money and then perhaps end up in the High Court on an appeal or direction.

All of this added risk because somebody at the upper echelons of the Company resolutely refuses to back-down and erect perhaps 20 Steel Plates at the correct CC Zone boundaries and order a set of Letraset Figures and Numbers to affix to the Fare Stage Bustops.......It cannot be defined as anything other than disinterest...?

bk

Bambi wrote: »

Wait...do you have to swipe the leap card AND tell the driver to issue a fare? thats daft even by dublin bus standards...

Worse, you have to hold that card on the machine, tell the driver to issue the fare and only remove the card when he has done so.

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

Worse, you have to hold that card on the machine, tell the driver to issue the fare and only remove the card when he has done so.

The best approach I'm finding is for the Leaper to watch for the Green Light on the TIM just under the Display....now IF we could synch a nice audible BEEP ! to operate with that Green Light then we might save 2 seconds per person....sounds nothing but believe me it's the difference between crock o brown stuff and pure gold !!

schemingbohemia

AlekSmart wrote: »

Asd the quick'n easy reaction guaranteed to get a loud cheer from the gallery,that's all true enough.

However for those looking for a somewhat more robust answer of sorts here goes.

The City Centre Fare,it's immediate predecessor the CentreLink Fare and the original of the species the Shoppers Fare all share a commonality of purpose.

Poor implementation and even poorer understanding of how to publicise and operate the things.

The situation worsened considerably when the Wayfarer TGX Machine was introduced and the previous location of that Fare Button was moved off the main screen onto a sub-menu.

To get to the CC Fare "button" requires 3 seperate pushes with a pause between each.

Added to this is the lack of an ability to issue a change ticket from that Menu,so such an action requires a further 2 botton pushes to return to the change ticket menu and a further two pushes to issue a change-ticket.

The situation with a Leap CC Fare is only improved to the extent that change-ticketing is no longer required,however the actual process to gain access to the CC Fare button still requires rooting about in a new sub-menu and further delving to find the CC Fare button.

A by the by on this is the total lack of clarity as to where the CC Fare zone begins and ends....now I always tend to recommend the Official Company Document from here.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/City-Centre/

The leaflet PDF is here....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/Global/CCF20Leaflet.pdf

Now that PDF has quite a well defined map with all the relevant routes (bar1) illustrated,plus a map with the relevant stops marked in yellow.

Notwithstanding that the Map is now hopelessly out of date in relation to route numbers,the actual CC Fare Zone remains clearly marked out.....or so one would think......:rolleyes:

However....when the CC Fare went live in conjunction with the College Green Bus-Gate,it suddenly became apparent that it was impossible to issue a CC Fare from St Stephens Green North,as it was between Stages 73 and 74 thus rendering a CC Fare ticket impossible to issue.

The knee-jerk reaction was to enable the Ticket Machine to issue the CCF from Stage 73,which is actually either Leeson St or Earlsfort Tce depending on Route number.
(NB: The above has to be read in conjunction with the reality that there are NO visible on-street Fare Stage markings)


However it needs to be noted that neither location is within the CCF zone.

What happened then,is to me indicative of a total lack of managerial interest in the integrity of the service or of the revenue implications....

The web-site is equally clear on this point..



...beside a picture of the striking Pink Flag which reads,City Centre Fare (Note the absence of the words "Start of").

Bearing all of this clarity of purpose in mind,somebody of equal but opposing clarity of purpose erected "End of City Centre Fare Zone" Pink Plates on Stops at Dorset St/Eccles Place (No14) and Adelaide Road (No1015),both locations far from the minds of the CCF originators.

What this has now enabled is the potential for a canny,savvy commuter to cease paying a €1.90 cash fare and replace it with a .50c Leap CCF.....now thats customer friendly surely....??

Thats the long version,but at least one of Mydarkstar's events sounds like unfamiliarity/laziness so is inexcusable.

Having said that,it's perhaps worth having a customer march into head-office and remind the denizens there that there is a spare-button on the Ticket Machine doing nuttin at the minute,which,if allocated to the CCF would totally eliminate the need for all the pahlavah....:rolleyes:

The Adelaide Road sign has been removed and city centre fares refused by drivers to that stop - leading to much embarassment for a colleague of mine who stood her ground only to end up scarlet when the driver pointed out the lack of the aforementioned sign when they arrived at the stop.

Dyr

bk wrote: »

Worse, you have to hold that card on the machine, tell the driver to issue the fare and only remove the card when he has done so.

so they've taken up both boarding "lanes" for their fare? jesus wept, how do these people keep their jobs.

The_Wrecker

Right clarified with someone with Leap knowledge this morning.

1. DONT let the customer place their card on the machine
2. Press alternative ticket button
3. Tell the passenger to place and hold their card to be read
4. Press shoppers fare.

Press Alt button again to go back to cash fares.

If the card is present prior, the ALT (square) button wont work.

What a drama..........

PS There is a blank button on the ticket machine that could speed this up by 10 seconds per shopper..

bk

The_Wrecker that is absolutely awful, you literally couldn't come up with a worse design.

Leap Card users are just getting used to the idea of putting their card on the reader, leaving it there and then asking the driver for the fare. Now this!!

I've also noticed that even when I put my card on and ask for the 1.70 fare, most drivers hesitate and take a second or two looking at the screen before hitting the button.

In my experience Leap is definitely at least twice as slow as cash.

As a driver or you and Alex seeing the same?

This situation really can't be allowed to continue, it will only get worse as more people switch to LEAP.

foggy_lad

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Right clarified with someone with Leap knowledge this morning.

1. DONT let the customer place their card on the machine
2. Press alternative ticket button
3. Tell the passenger to place and hold their card to be read
4. Press shoppers fare.

Press Alt button again to go back to cash fares.

If the card is present prior, the ALT (square) button wont work.

What a drama..........

PS There is a blank button on the ticket machine that could speed this up by 10 seconds per shopper..

€55000000 and 12 years for so many backwards steps that several people within the NTA, CIE and DOT should be sacked without pensions or other bonus payments!

Dodge

Bambi wrote: »

so they've taken up both boarding "lanes" for their fare? jesus wept, how do these people keep their jobs.

Just to be clear, leap users would only use one "lane"

Either tagging on for maximum fare (right hand side) or using the machine at the driver to let him deduct the (hopefully) correct fare (left hand side)

You can read the main leap thread for page and pages on this issue

The_Wrecker

bk wrote: »

I've also noticed that even when I put my card on and ask for the 1.70 fare, most drivers hesitate and take a second or two looking at the screen before hitting the button.

In my experience Leap is definitely at least twice as slow as cash.

As a driver or you and Alex seeing the same?

.

On placing your card, depending on the machine. It could take upto 2 seconds to change over to leap fares and the same to revert back.

bk

The_Wrecker wrote: »

On placing your card, depending on the machine. It could take upto 2 seconds to change over to leap fares and the same to revert back.

Yikes!! It should be instantaneous.

I can see this turning into a disaster for Dublin Bus with much longer dwell times as more and more people use LEAP.

You have to wonder did anyone at DB/NTA management actually try LEAP on buses or think it through.

The_Wrecker

Another simple task delaying for process is dropped cards. If you dont hold it there it vibrates off, resetting the machine back to cash fares. Back to step 1 again......

efb

I have issues getting the city centre fare from Merrion Sq (Holles St) the stop says it's city centre fare but a few drivers disagree!!!

mydarkstar

efb wrote: »

I have issues getting the city centre fare from Merrion Sq (Holles St) the stop says it's city centre fare but a few drivers disagree!!!

I also had trouble with that on the 7 and 4 for a while. One or two Drivers said the citycentre fare didnt start until Clare St/art gallery, until I pointed out the pink circle on the bus stop and also that I had got it a hundred times before. Problem was that he hadn't updated the stages, or something like that. No problems with the cash cc fare from there in ages.

mydarkstar

Update:
I rang Dublin Bus customer service today, explained the problem I had getting the CC Fare. They said they would pass the message on to the particular garage, so hopefully i'll have more luck next week getting the correct fare. She said to call into head office and i'd get my 75cent back too, which I did. No arguments from either DB staff member, just showed me my travel history and refunded me the difference. So, i'm a happy camper.

Sorry for starting up such a debate about Dublin Bus, it was just an innocent query on a fare!

The_Wrecker

efb wrote: »

I have issues getting the city centre fare from Merrion Sq (Holles St) the stop says it's city centre fare but a few drivers disagree!!!

According to the people who claim to run the show its Clare st.;)
http://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/City-Centre/

mydarkstar

There is a sign on the Merrion Sq/holles st bus shelter, on the 'inbound' side of the road saying its the start of city centre fare.

AlekSmart

mydarkstar wrote: »

There is a sign on the Merrion Sq/holles st bus shelter, on the 'inbound' side of the road saying its the start of city centre fare.

The sign is on the wrong stop.
It has been thus since the CC fare was introduced.
Drivers have been reporting it,reporting it and re-rep[orting it since day 1.

Depending upon the Manager involved the response varies from"I'll get right on it straight-away" to "Just give them whatever they ask for".....It seems the Irish Management Institute has'nt yet come up with a module which would allow for a rather simple error to be rectified when it's flagged up....:(

The actual Hard-Copy documentation provided by the company is VERY specific on where the CC Zone starts for these routes..

Routes 4 & 7 Towards O Connell St- Clare St,Outside Café Sol.

And just for clarity coming the opposite way,the CCF zone ENDS at .....

Routes 4 & 7 Towards Merrion Sq- Merrion Square North,(Appropriately enough) Outside the School of Cosmic Physics


Hopefully the same Manager who finally got the incorrectly placed CC Sign removed from Adelaide Road will attend to the Holles St one as well....unless he/she's been sacked in the interim !!

The_Wrecker

They also havent updated the northside ~ Mountjoy sq for rte 7. There once was a time when the shoppers fare operated from there in the 145/46a days...

efb

DB rang me this morning - operations will look into it

AlekSmart

efb wrote: »

DB rang me this morning - operations will look into it

At the risk of being branded a "Resurrectionist" here,but did you ever get any more on the "Operations looking into it" response.

The City Centre Fare mallarkey persists......but for those who want the ACTUAL gen...here it is....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/Global/CCF20Leaflet.pdf

For example,St Stephens Green - Parnell Square is the CCF zone but TWO "End of City Fare Zone" plates sit proudly atop the Bus Shelter at Stop 14 (Dorset St/Eccles Place).

Reported so many times,yet the chaos continues....why ?

The_Wrecker

AlekSmart wrote: »

At the risk of being branded a "Resurrectionist" here,but did you ever get any more on the "Operations looking into it" response.

The City Centre Fare mallarkey persists......but for those who want the ACTUAL gen...here it is....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/Global/CCF20Leaflet.pdf

For example,St Stephens Green - Parnell Square is the CCF zone but TWO "End of City Fare Zone" plates sit proudly atop the Bus Shelter at Stop 14 (Dorset St/Eccles Place).

Reported so many times,yet the chaos continues....why ?

Blessington st is marked too, i dont argue!