Outwintering on Kale

just do it

So as not to clog up the pictures thread (and to avoid repramand from the mods;)), I'll post this here.

Leg wax's photos has triggered my interest in this and thanks to google I came across the following relating to legal allowable stocking rate so as not to fall foul of cross complaince:
http://www.farmersjournal.ie/site/farming-How-many-animals-can-you-legally-carry-this-winter--9636.html

Stock outwintered
Less storage capacity may be required if suckler cows, beef cattle or sheep are outwintered. No allowance is made for dairy cows, even if grazed on crops like kale - each dairy cow still requires 0.33m3 of slurry storage per week in the yard.

Suckler cows or beef cattle over 24 months can be outwintered at a stocking rate of up to 1.3 cows per hectare - and then don’t require slurry storage capacity in the yard.

•Cattle up to 12 months can outwinter at 3.54 head per hectare.

•Cattle of 12 to 24 months can outwinter at 1.49 head per hectare.
There are some conditions, including:

•The farm must not be stocked at more than 140kg per hectare average through the year - 100,000 farms are stocked under this threshold.

•No poaching.

•Cattle must be on the land on the day of an inspection, and must have access to all relevant land.

just do it

Old thread: what to feed weanlings on rape

blue5000

Have you the full article, can't view the table?

There is supposed to be a lieback area equal to the area of the kale, I think this has to be grass, it can't be stubble ground. Is there anymore up to date info on this? I had a X compliance insp last nov while cattle were on kale and had no hassle about it.

HTF are you supposed to stop poaching on kale if it is raining?

just do it

blue5000 wrote: »

Have you the full article, can't view the table?

There is supposed to be a lieback area equal to the area of the kale, I think this has to be grass, it can't be stubble ground. Is there anymore up to date info on this? I had a X compliance insp last nov while cattle were on kale and had no hassle about it.

HTF are you supposed to stop poaching on kale if it is raining?

I only have what was available at that link and am starting from a base of knowing nothing about this topic. It's debatable whether it's an option at all on the west coast where I'm based, but worth looking at out of interest if for no other reason.

Good to hear you've had a cross compliance inspection and had no hassle with it. As for the poaching, you'd have to laugh at that. Depending on the weather I can have poaching in any month of the year! It's a very subjective measure and unfortunately leaves you open to the man doing the inspection.

The stocking rates mentioned in the IFJ article look uneconomical. Going on dar31's calculations in the other post a HA of kale alone without silage would feed 14 weanlings for a 90 day winter. Allowing for a 120 day winter a hectare would feed 10 weanlings. The 3.54 head/ HA quoted in the IFJ article is a long way shy of that.

Teagasc should have some decent stuff on this. I'll post up other stuff of merit if and when I find it. Input from others would be welcome too, particularly those with experience of it.

keep going

wintering weanlings on kale and would like to add my tuppence worth.if your winter for weanlings is 3+months its probaly not a good option,our winter for weanlings is 1dec to 10approx of feb and i never had good in calf heifers until i started doing it.the dept stocking rates and lie backs are unworkable and there is no need for them but them are the rules.if your winter is only 9 or 10 weeks and dept dont inspect around christmas (5weeks)it only leaves a month to get caught and from what i have been told as long as the round feeder is kept on the move you will be ok.as far as i m aware its under 140 for each day of the closed period not the whole year

stanflt

keep going wrote: »

wintering weanlings on kale and would like to add my tuppence worth.if your winter for weanlings is 3+months its probaly not a good option,our winter for weanlings is 1dec to 10approx of feb and i never had good in calf heifers until i started doing it.the dept stocking rates and lie backs are unworkable and there is no need for them but them are the rules.if your winter is only 9 or 10 weeks and dept dont inspect around christmas (5weeks)it only leaves a month to get caught and from what i have been told as long as the round feeder is kept on the move you will be ok.as far as i m aware its under 140 for each day of the closed period not the whole year

are these dairy heifers
what age are they calving down
what daily live weight gain are they achieving

limo_100

whats the benefit of doing this as opposed to a slatted shed

keep going

cant say what weight are they gaining but would be able to get them up to 330 or so around bulling.iwould say they are no farther a head of weanlings inside at the moment the real benifit is when they go back out to grass as they take off and you dont have this lost month(2weeks when they go in and 2 weeks when they go out) . a friend who does beef reckons cattle will weigh the same by august but if you want them 330 by may 1 out wintering is ahead.not feeding any ration to them at the mo as im not panicing about getting the weaker ones in calf this year(must admit i have given up trying to get late april may heifers up to bulling weight at may 1 and have too many anyway).used rape for a couple of years but know think its not worth putting in the ground and found the kale outstanding this year

stanflt

keep going wrote: »

not feeding any ration to them at the mo as im not panicing about getting the weaker ones in calf this year(must admit i have given up trying to get late april may heifers up to bulling weight at may 1 and have too many anyway).used rape for a couple of years but know think its not worth putting in the ground and found the kale outstanding this year

what age are you calving down-hardly 1y 9months

keep going

well my point exactly.these late heifers dont do as well as the early ones and then they dont have enough time before the the start of bulling to be strong enough so will run them on to next year.have moved to an angus bull for moping up so as to avoid these late heifer calves and considering using fr ai for three weeks on the heifers to give me a few extra heifers.thats strong grass on the journal,starting to wonder who lives in the south and who lives in the north;)

blue5000

limo_100 wrote: »

whats the benefit of doing this as opposed to a slatted shed

Costs about 30 cent/day to keep a weanling on kale, anyone know what it costs to keep one in a shed?

limo_100

blue5000 wrote: »

Costs about 30 cent/day to keep a weanling on kale, anyone know what it costs to keep one in a shed?

30cents is that including the ploughing and all??
29cents for the shed but would you not around 10acres for grazing each year?

blue5000

Jazes limo its late, haven't all the exact costs for mine in yet but here goes for 3 acres of kale

1. 140 SEED
2. 22O, fert 2 BAGS 50% k 3 1/3 BAGS can/ACRE
3. 120 dung spread
4. 320 for 24 bales silage @15 each
5. 150 for 15 bales [EMAIL="straw@10"]straw@10[/EMAIL] each
6. 120 discing
7. 60 sowing
8. 15 rolling
9. 20 iodine
10. 30 for 5L roundup
11. 25 sprayer

1220e /42 cattle (21 cows+21 weanlings)=29e per head. They got about 80 days off it. So 29/80 is 36 cent per head per day. And the slurry is already spread:)

These figures are rough estimate, still have to pay the contractor so I could be out a few quid for the discing.

I should also put in a trace sure bolus at 4.50 head.

It was sown first wk of July, I'd like to get in earlier this year and hopefully could cut back on the fert.

limo_100

blue5000 wrote: »

Jazes limo its late, haven't all the exact costs for mine in yet but here goes for 3 acres of kale

1. 140 SEED
2. 22O, fert 2 BAGS 50% k 3 1/3 BAGS can/ACRE
3. 120 dung spread
4. 320 for 24 bales silage @15 each
5. 150 for 15 bales [EMAIL="straw@10"]straw@10[/EMAIL] each
6. 120 discing
7. 60 sowing
8. 15 rolling
9. 20 iodine
10. 30 for 5L roundup
11. 25 sprayer

1220e /42 cattle (21 cows+21 weanlings)=29e per head. They got about 80 days off it. So 29/80 is 36 cent per head per day. And the slurry is already spread:)

These figures are rough estimate, still have to pay the contractor so I could be out a few quid for the discing.

I should also put in a trace sure bolus at 4.50 head.

It was sown first wk of July, I'd like to get in earlier this year and hopefully could cut back on the fert.

jesus and just 3acres that thats unreal i cant tell how much it costs ta shed them suppose silage is the main 500bales at i think at €10 plus at the rest. its to late to go into but i'd say your winning. Will we wrap it up for the night...:)

High bike

blue5000 wrote: »

Jazes limo its late, haven't all the exact costs for mine in yet but here goes for 3 acres of kale

1. 140 SEED
2. 22O, fert 2 BAGS 50% k 3 1/3 BAGS can/ACRE
3. 120 dung spread
4. 320 for 24 bales silage @15 each
5. 150 for 15 bales [EMAIL="straw@10"]straw@10[/EMAIL] each
6. 120 discing
7. 60 sowing
8. 15 rolling
9. 20 iodine
10. 30 for 5L roundup
11. 25 sprayer

1220e /42 cattle (21 cows+21 weanlings)=29e per head. They got about 80 days off it. So 29/80 is 36 cent per head per day. And the slurry is already spread:)

These figures are rough estimate, still have to pay the contractor so I could be out a few quid for the discing.

I should also put in a trace sure bolus at 4.50 head.

It was sown first wk of July, I'd like to get in earlier this year and hopefully could cut back on the fert.

Am I reading this right 21 cows and 21 weanlings and only 15 bales of silage over an 80 day period??

Reggie.

High bike wrote: »

Am I reading this right 21 cows and 21 weanlings and only 15 bales of silage over an 80 day period??

No. 24 bales of silage and must be 15 bales of straw

dar31

Roughly a bale a head for 120 days.
Weanling heifers.

High bike

I’m wintering 14 weanling heifers on 3 1/2 acres of kale so how long should that do em and how many bales.Its my first time trying it, should they get meal too?

Water John

Minerals and roughage are important. You should get a good run out of that for that number of stock. Be aware of frost and keep stock away until it thaws.

Bass Reeves

High bike wrote: »

I’m wintering 14 weanling heifers on 3 1/2 acres of kale so how long should that do em and how many bales.Its my first time trying it, should they get meal too?

If it is a good crop they will struggle to finish it before March. No need for ration. They will need iodine. Cannot remember exact amount vet will tell you. Put it inti a squeezy bottle and put it into water trough every day.

Feed minimum roughage if you are willing to pike it a bale of hay or straw 8-10 would be adequate. Believe it or not the poorer quality hay(as long as it is well saved) the better as it has a higher fibre content.

High bike

Water John wrote: »

Minerals and roughage are important. You should get a good run out of that for that number of stock. Be aware of frost and keep stock away until it thaws.

does it depend if it’s a heavy frost ,or just any frost?

Water John

Used to have beet tops, wouldn't let cows to them until about 11 o'clock on a winters frosty day.

High bike

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If it is a good crop they will struggle to finish it before March. No need for ration. They will need iodine. Cannot remember exact amount vet will tell you. Put it inti a squeezy bottle and put it into water trough every day.

Feed minimum roughage if you are willing to pike it a bale of hay or straw 8-10 would be adequate. Believe it or not the poorer quality hay(as long as it is well saved) the better as it has a higher fibre content.

was mid July when it was planted and slow enough to get going but there’s a good crop on it now suppose with Oct being so mild.Might throw a few in calf heifers in there too if that’s the case.Would 30 bales of silage with the hay get me out to Feb?

Water John

You know the way some have bales already in the field, most would have maybe 12/15 across a field such as yours. They only need a bit of roughage for the gut.
Hay or a silage/straw mix would be ideal. Just stop them being too scuttery.

High bike

Water John wrote: »

Used to have beet tops, wouldn't let cows to them until about 11 o'clock on a winters frosty day.

ok thanks for that , how much of a strip should they get per day?

High bike

Water John wrote: »

You know the way some have bales already in the field, most would have maybe 12/15 across a field such as yours. They only need a bit of roughage for the gut.
Hay or a silage/straw mix would be ideal. Just stop them being too scuttery.

have the bales in the yard so they can go in and out themselves

Water John

Ah, divide the field by 100 as in days. If its 150yds long give them 1.5 yds/day. Adjust then as you see how the clean it out. Make the move each day after frost clears.

High bike

Sound thanks for the tips lads