notification of hazard

gdavis

was wondering if anyoine can shed some light on this for me,was called out to house who was issued with noh when bg were installing new meter.on the noh it said that the valve to the gas fire had to be changed,it was the old brass type ones,but was functioning perfectly,also had that the hob had to be hard piped and this hob had bayonet and hose,it had no oven below it.I asked lady if she had manufacturers instructions of hob which she hadnt.lady told me the bg fella told her u cant have hose on any hob.This is news to me..... anyone??

anuprising

where was the bayonet located and did it have a wall plate secured to the wall ?

don't forget , if using a hose it must form a ' u ' from connection to appliance
any I come across don't , they are stretched and in a line from the next press or connected from floor level to appliance .

gdavis

it was below hob and yes had wall plate fixed to wall.

gdavis

and yes it went down and then up if u know what i mean,forming the u

Billy Bunting

Did it have a seperate isolation valve.

gdavis

nope,but that was not his "issue".

Billy Bunting

You need to check the MI's but some hobs can use bayonets. A bayonet connection is not classed as a permanent means of isolation, so a isolation valve is always required.

anuprising

it is a permanent isolation valve , can't actually get more permanent than disconnecting a bayonet fitting , gas bord and regs allow also , nothing to do with mi's as its upstream of the appliance , but I never use hose and bayonet always hard pipe it in.


edit - mi's want a service valve , is813 wants an isolation valve but it allows bayonets as its an auto shut off valve to the appliance

Billy Bunting

anuprising wrote: »

it is a permanent isolation valve , can't actually get more permanent than disconnecting a bayonet fitting , gas bord and regs allow also , nothing to do with mi's as its upstream of the appliance , but I never use hose and bayonet always hard pipe it in.

A bayonet can let-by and cannot be capped, as for fitting a hob on a bayonet IMHO you would need to be a right numpty, but some MI's do give the option, so i'm very reliably informed..

DGOBS

A bayonet IS classed as an isolation valve according to 813, but wouldn't be deemed 'best practice'

Best practice would be to always pipe to a hob in copper, as for the valve on the fire, the brass are tapered plug valves and not allowed on pipework unless an integrated part of an appliance such as a hob.

RGII had told me in the past if they were in situ and in good working order, that is me leakage and no letby as long as a NOH was issued it was ok, but IMHO by the time you'd have it tested you'd have changed it! And it will leak at some point they are renounced for it

Whoever issued the NOH was spot on, would agree with the lot!

Also, re bayonet, yes it's an isolation valve 'service valve' not ECV, but if the appliance was to be permanently removed it would be considered open ended pipework and require capping

gdavis

dgobs,im hearing u with the brass valve now,i didnt realise they were tapered valves,but why the hob?surely as u say it may not be best practice but not against regs either?

Billy Bunting

DGOBS wrote: »

A bayonet IS classed as an isolation valve according to 813,

As always, lots of confusion and contridiction when it comes down to how we perseve IS813.

Good practice and common sense is always the way to do.

RGII are ****e.

JohnnieK

All of us should be doing best practice. I always pipe hobs in copper and the main reason for this is because I have been trained well in pipe fitting as part of an apprenticeship I served and why any properly trained plumber/gas fitter would install it any other way is beyond me

Wouldn't it be fabulous if we had a book we could go to when we have a question about safety, and wouldn't it be lovely if the information was precise, clear and gave a definitive answer that left no confusion. I can dream:)

DGOBS

Would be a wet dream if we actually had a regulator & registration body who were actually interested in such things!

DGOBS

DGOBS wrote: »

Would be a wet dream if we actually had a regulator & registration body who were actually interested in such things!

That's a fantasy, not a dream;)

Billy Bunting

gary71 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be fabulous if we had a book we could go to when we have a question about safety, and wouldn't it be lovely if the information was precise, clear and gave a definitive answer that left no confusion. I can dream:)

On the occasions I find I need to refer to regs I find myself floating from IS, BS, Vipergas, The complete technical guide and even my old Gas Technology books, on the few occasions I need clarification I resort to the RGII inspector, make a note of the wise words, store it, and then operate to the safest practice I can and take no chances.

gdavis

just to clarify,i did change the pipe to copper and fit an isolation valve at hob and replaced valve at fire.was just curious what ur opinions were

DGOBS

Problem is, the CTG and Vipergas are books written for the UK regs (which I would love us to adopt) so be careful, things such as ventilation calculations are very different from the Irish standard and you may end up with too little according to 813

Billy Bunting

DGOBS wrote: »

Problem is, the CTG and Vipergas are books written for the UK regs (which I would love us to adopt) so be careful, things such as ventilation calculations are very different from the Irish standard and you may end up with too little according to 813

Yes I realise Viper are the British standard, but don’t think you can overdo the reading, the complete technical guide I have are actually MI’s, Gas and Oil, all 10+ GB in pdf format, I only ever refer to Viper and the BS if I can’t find what I’m looking for, when it comes to ventilation I haven’t had issues with IS813 but I also always check with the MI’s..