Cattle as side line - mad or what?

kingstown

Maybe someone who knows about keeping a few cattle may advise me.

I work full time 60km away from the farm so gone early and home late, but would love to keep a few cattle as an interest maybe a Spring to late Autumn type system.Wouldn't be able to winter & feed cattle with work.

One of my reasons doing this would be to see if my youngest son (15 year old) would take an interest in cattle. He is very into farming and tending to show more of an interest than the older lads.
I always had a interest in having a few ''black cattle'' around the place and was thinking of buying in 8 /10 Aberdeen Angus and see how we get on.

I normally rent out the land but thinking of keeping say 10 acres, I have a crush, sheds & yards etc and will have to apply for a herd number so that should be OK.

Its just some advice on what the best type cattle & system would work best. I now we wont make a lot but also I cant afford to lose either.

Am I mad - am I too late to buy in and should I just forget it and carry on as is??

InchicoreDude

but would love to keep a few cattle as an interest maybe a Spring to late Autumn type system.Wouldn't be able to winter & feed cattle with work.

Not a whole lot of effort required for this really. Not a whole lot of profit either though. So if you are doing it for money, dont! If you are doing it as a hobby, why not!

I couldnt imagine you will lose much; Cattle are not expensive to keep during the Summer. But just dont be expecting a big profit [Any profit really].

kingstown

while i wouldn't be expecting a huge profit i thought i might make the price of the loss of the rental back i.e. 200 per acre = 200 per animal?

any thoughts on keeping some Angus cattle or should we stick to some cheaper whiteheads.

6480

angus whiteheads or even a few british freisean could leave as much money behind them , i dont think you could go wrong and the young lad could would get some some respobailty out of it , best of luck with it

reilig

kingstown wrote: »

while i wouldn't be expecting a huge profit i thought i might make the price of the loss of the rental back i.e. 200 per acre = 200 per animal?

any thoughts on keeping some Angus cattle or should we stick to some cheaper whiteheads.

You should be able to make €200 per animal back. Also, it will be a great interest for both you and the young lad, ye will learn a lot from it and get great satisfaction.

I always advise people to start small, buy what you can afford, and keep what you realistically have time to keep.
I'm working over 60km from the farm and we keep 60 suckler cows (with the help of my father and my wife). Life is what you make it. So is your farm. If I wanted a life of going on the beer a couple of nights a week or going away with my family for long weekends on a regular basis, then farming wouldn't be for me. I put time into it, but i get it back!!

PatQfarmer

Even if you don't make a "real" profit, the fun you and the young fella will have should more than make up for it.
Cheaper than a lot of other hobbies...
Just get good (trustworthy!!!) advice when buying in.

djmc

Just one word of warning cattle prices are high at the moment if prices collapse
you could make a loss but thats the gamble you take if the price stays as it is you could make a profit
As said start small and go from there

kingstown

Thanks Lads - really appreciate the advice and encouragement

I've spoke to lot's of lads about what i should do over the last couple of months and got so many different answers - but most were that we're too late buying and that prices are gone so hight that there's bound to be a price drop in the back end this year and it would be a pity to have a big loss the first year we tried a few cattle
Crystal ball job really...

PatQ - you might know this herd.
I travel through Clonmel every day and always enjoy looking at the small herd of Angus cattle (about 12/16) on the farm opposite the large Est that Clonmel County Council bought, (Gortmore, I think).
Its on the left hand side as you drive passed the last roundabout on the Cahir rd and before Condon's Cross. That man keeps a fine bunch of cattle and many's the evening i thought of having a few like them -- Maybe this year.......:)

Thanks lads

PatQfarmer

kingstown wrote: »

PatQ - you might know this herd.
I travel through Clonmel every day and always enjoy looking at the small herd of Angus cattle (about 12/16) on the farm opposite the large Est that Clonmel County Council bought, (Gortmore, I think).
Its on the left hand side as you drive passed the last roundabout on the Cahir rd and before Condon's Cross. That man keeps a fine bunch of cattle and many's the evening i thought of having a few like them -- Maybe this year.......:)

Thanks lads

Ballingarrane Estate, bought by Council 6/7 years ago.
Yes they are always fabulous cattle and that man has a great little set-up there. Nice paddocks and a handy shed. He seems to stick to the Angus, and the quality is the same every year.
I'm part-time farming, my kids love it too (10, 12, 14) so can attest to the family benefits. Just don't expect to make money! Covering costs is a good achievement.Best of luck!

Tipp Man

Just something that we have noticed over the last year

Last spring i know a few fellas who said cattle were too dear, they wouldn't buy any and would wait until they fell. They'd cut round bales instead and would make just as much money

Guess what, cattle are a lot more expensive now than they were last spring when they were suppossed to be dear, and now the guys who held off last spring are in a dilema as their money will buy significantly less cattle this spring than it would have last spring. And to top it all off they all have money tied up in a load of round bales they can't give away

It is a very expensive time to be getting into stock - however there is absolutely nothing which says that prices are going to fall (dramatically) - either in the near or medium future. Conversely there is nothing to guarantee the current strong prices - but world demand is high, and world output is falling - make of that what you will

Also I often see, on here and elsewhere, the comparison of cattle to the irish housing market. There is a couple of fundamental differences, beef is a consumable, houses aren't. When a bullock is eaten, then the people want another bullock. When a house is bought, the people don't buy another house (bar speculation). Secondly the Irish property boom occurred in Ireland, we built too many houses for Irish use - houses built here can't be exported to UK or whereever, cattle/beef are on the world market and they are determining the price now, not Irish buyers. And cattle/beef are sold abroad, the Irish market isn't that important to the price of Irish cattle. I think it is foolish to compare both to be honest

PatQfarmer

Good point, Tipp Man.
I am Auctioneer and agree that the "fundamentals" are entirely different.
There is a bubble brewing in relation to Calf prices, IMO, but that is caused by quota.
Otherwise, barring major international financial shocks, or a disease outbreak in the Irish beef herd, the only way for beef is upwards in the short-medium term.
As for the property market, let's not talk about that...

jay gatsby

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Good point, Tipp Man.
I am Auctioneer and agree that the "fundamentals" are entirely different.
There is a bubble brewing in relation to Calf prices, IMO, but that is caused by quota.
Otherwise, barring major international financial shocks, or a disease outbreak in the Irish beef herd, the only way for beef is upwards in the short-medium term.
As for the property market, let's not talk about that...

I wouldn't agree that current calf bubble is caused by quota levy. I firmly believe if every dairy calf in the country was released onto the market lads would still fight over them at the moment.

theaceofspies

Current Prices are being driven by the supply vs demand fundamental.

A couple of years back farming was bad and fellas reduced their stocks; now the tide has turned there is a deficit in the lead-in-time for finished cattle... hence the increase in prices.

The old saying "be careful what you wish" for applies to all the fellas complaining about high prices now;)

The key now is that the Irish farmer has the upper hand on the factories.

jay gatsby

The key now is that the Irish farmer has the upper hand on the factories.[/QUOTE]


I don't know if I'd agree with that either. The next 9 months will tell a lot I guess. If the high prices last over 2 years maybe it's not exactly a bubble.

PatQfarmer

jay gatsby wrote: »

I wouldn't agree that current calf bubble is caused by quota levy. I firmly believe if every dairy calf in the country was released onto the market lads would still fight over them at the moment.

Probably true! That said, I've given up any plan to buy calves this Spring at current prices. Will be interesting to see what happens in April.

pakalasa

Anyone see the front of the Journal, I think it was only last week. Potatoe growers are facing losses this year, with prices below the cost of production. :rolleyes:
Supply and demand, simple as that. Beef is no different.

theaceofspies

It's not just a case of increased demand but the supply is lower thereby putting pressure on the price from both elements of the curve.

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

Anyone see the front of the Journal, I think it was only last week. Potatoe growers are facing losses this year, with prices below the cost of production. :rolleyes:
Supply and demand, simple as that. Beef is no different.

I'm still hopeful that higher oil prices is going to keep beef at a profitable price into the future. I have been doing some reading on it over the last few months. The big players in beef production have all reduced their beef herds in order to increase acerage for biofuel crops such as ethanol and bio diesel. Our biggest beef competitor in the recent years, Brazil, has had a 25% beef herd decrease from 2006 - 2011. Argentina has had a 20% herd decrease. Overall beef herd in the USA has been reduced by almost 30% in the last 5 years - most of this has been because of drought, but farmers are increasingly turning towards more profitable biofuel crops and beef is being imported to replace this. We know how the Americans value their cheap fuel.

I know that higher oil prices mean higher input costs for farmers all round, but it is predicted that Oil is going to reach a maximum price that people can afford in the not too distant future. When it does, alternatives will have to be found. This will see an even greater emphasis on biofuels. A lot more land will be used for fuel production and food will be in much less supply.

Maybe this is just a happy/nice model of production to be looking at, but I think its a realistic one?

kingstown

You make a very good point and its a impressive argument, but i just hope that as its inevitable that as beef / cattle prices fluctuate due to whatever outside pressures, that i don't get caught when prices are down when i have to sell my 'few cattle'.

I hope that buying in a few strong calves ready to go out on grass in April and keep them on good grass ''on good dry limestone land'' and hopefully sell in October and cover the cost of lost rental and maybe a bit more.

I am determined to try it and with my 16 year old with me, we should be both wiser 'chappies' by autumn.;)

Next job for the weekend is to finish trimming the ditches and then in February to get a local lad in with a post driver to do a little fencing. Then a load of trunking for two gateways which have gone a little mucky in the last year or two and we should be fine for now.

Thanks for all your replies and advice and i am glad to know that there are a few more guys out there who are in a similar situation or about to do the same kind of ''small cattle set up / summer grazing'' as myself.
Hope to keep in contact with you all as i come closer to the day we start to buy in a few.

cj maxx

hi all
i dont want to butt in on this thread but apart from the 16 yo helper im in the same position as kingston.
im hoping to summer graze and recoup the lost revenue from holding the land for myself so i'll keep up with this thread!
one lad said a slightly cheaper way to build up numbers would be to buy fresian cross bull weanlings. not great stock but would help to get a couple more head.
what crosses would be best and would this mean id have to winter them to finish next yearas i dont imagine they'd be great sellers. that would rule it out as i dont have adequate sheds etc.
any opinions on this ?

PatQfarmer

kingstown wrote: »

I hope that buying in a few strong calves ready to go out on grass in April and keep them on good grass ''on good dry limestone land'' and hopefully sell in October and cover the cost of lost rental and maybe a bit more.

I am determined to try it and with my 16 year old with me, we should be both wiser 'chappies' by autumn.;)

Best of luck! I'll be letting the Autumn-born, bucket-reared calves that I have out onto grass soon (I hope!). Will graze on and sell bulls in Autumn, so we'll all be hoping for the price to hold.:)

PatQfarmer

cjmc wrote: »

hi all
i dont want to butt in on this thread but apart from the 16 yo helper im in the same position as kingston.
im hoping to summer graze and recoup the lost revenue from holding the land for myself so i'll keep up with this thread!
one lad said a slightly cheaper way to build up numbers would be to buy fresian cross bull weanlings. not great stock but would help to get a couple more head.
what crosses would be best and would this mean id have to winter them to finish next yearas i dont imagine they'd be great sellers. that would rule it out as i dont have adequate sheds etc.
any opinions on this ?

Might be just me, but I don't like looking at the FR bulls. AA or HEX better. More expensive to buy, but will sell better, irrespective of the market.
Easier to handle than continental breeds, imo.

cj maxx

i know fr's wouldnt be ideal and i hear they can be hard to handle but i was thinking of exploring it as an option just to get a couple more than a dearer breed. however if i'd to winter them to finish them to a factory it would rule it out. ah what to do ??

aidanki

reilig wrote: »

I'm still hopeful that higher oil prices is going to keep beef at a profitable price into the future. I have been doing some reading on it over the last few months. The big players in beef production have all reduced their beef herds in order to increase acerage for biofuel crops such as ethanol and bio diesel. Our biggest beef competitor in the recent years, Brazil, has had a 25% beef herd decrease from 2006 - 2011. Argentina has had a 20% herd decrease. Overall beef herd in the USA has been reduced by almost 30% in the last 5 years - most of this has been because of drought, but farmers are increasingly turning towards more profitable biofuel crops and beef is being imported to replace this. We know how the Americans value their cheap fuel.

I know that higher oil prices mean higher input costs for farmers all round, but it is predicted that Oil is going to reach a maximum price that people can afford in the not too distant future. When it does, alternatives will have to be found. This will see an even greater emphasis on biofuels. A lot more land will be used for fuel production and food will be in much less supply.

Maybe this is just a happy/nice model of production to be looking at, but I think its a realistic one?

I think you have a v valid point here how many times have we heard the food or oil question

don't the americans have a certain percentage of biodiesel in their fuel