Pre 1980's mini

Daniel S

If I got a pre 1980 mini and I stuck a 1 litre motorbike engine in it, would I get the cheap vintage tax and would I need an NCT? Also, would it still be insured as a 1 litre (albeit motorbike engine, not mini)? If that worked out this would be a really cool cheap way of having some fun :pac:

bonzodog2

I'd say that would take a good bit of engineering.

Daniel S

bonzodog2 wrote: »

I'd say that would take a good bit of engineering.

I'm doing mechanical engineering in UL :pac:

Daniel S

sugarman wrote: »

Why would you be bothered doing that? As in what advantage would it have over a regular 800/900cc pre 1980 mini?

But to answer your question, i believe you would get cheap Tax seeing as its over 30yrs old thus qualifiying as a vintage. But if your getting cheap tax sure you may aswell go for a bigger engine anyways no? Atleast something more efficiant.

Not sure about NCT tho, there was a proposed change to classic/vintage cars... No idea if that went ahead. As it was tho, vintage/classic cars were excempt from NCT all together.

If you were to do the engine swap tho you would need an engineers report on the car to try get it on the road legally. Not sure of the whole procudure exactly, but if you have a seach around here you'll find the answer.

Modern engine, more power and a few other advantages (I could setup paddle shifting if I wanted :pac:). I'm 18 so insurance is a big issue. The smaller the cc the better. I was hoping to get an engine with round 70-90hp. My family is full of qualified engineers (mechanical in particular) so maybe I could get a report off them?

Daniel S

Plus, imagine the sound out of a mini with a 600cc Honda engine at 15k RPM :pac:

Daniel S

sugarman wrote: »

Pretty sure you have to be atleast 25 with nearly/if not all insurers with a vintage or classic.. Could be wrong tho.

Prob better to ask the lads on the classic cars forum, they know there stuff & will be able to tell you everything you need.

Good point, could a mod please move the thread?

weeder

sure once you declare you have a 100bhp+ motorbike under the hood wont they tax you on that? cc isnt the be all and end all,

Daniel S

weeder wrote: »

sure once you declare you have a 100bhp+ motorbike under the hood wont they tax you on that? cc isnt the be all and end all,

But cars older than 1980 only pay 48 euro tax. I want to do everything legitimately aswell as cheaply.

mjquinno

check out z car minis and haybusha minis.

people also put VTEC civic engines into them makes them lethal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFK5L-qEmxA&feature=related

Daniel S

mjquinno wrote: »

check out z car minis and haybusha minis.

people also put VTEC civic engines into them makes them lethal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFK5L-qEmxA&feature=related

I'm 18, one of the reasons I'm doing it is if insurance is cheap. A VTEC is over twice the CC I was thinking about. I don't want too many horses

aujopimur

Minis with a motorcycle engine is a fairly popular mod, if you're in the Cork area I'll tell you where you can see one.

Daniel S

I'm in Clare

Owen

Friend in Cork has a Z car with the Honda Mugen setup, it's insane. Tax will be the least of your worries, under the utmost good faith clause of any Insurance policy, you'll need to tell them you've fitted a bike engine to your Mini, and I'd imagine most won't quote at that stage.

Feel free to have a nose on the site I run, http://miniclub.ie where the owner of the Z car is. He may be able to advise further on what you need to do.

Tea drinker

I think the big issue is insurance if you want it to be legit? Would it need an engineers report, dyno run anything like that?

But otherwise I support your madness ;-) and think it's a great idea to slap a bike engine in. I'm thinking of getting an old Renault 4 to fix up, always wanted to make a "jeep" out of one having seen similar years ago.

Owen

The odd thing is that there's nothing wrong with the stock A, or A+ engines. You can get serious power out of them by supercharging them, without the expense of sourcing a bike engine in good nick, modifying the subframe to take it, converting the chain drive to shaft drive, getting the electronics working, etc. A good 1380 with a decompression plate, a nice head, cam, maniflow manifold and supercharger should see you pushing 170bhp.

Daniel S

Owen wrote: »

The odd thing is that there's nothing wrong with the stock A, or A+ engines. You can get serious power out of them by supercharging them, without the expense of sourcing a bike engine in good nick, modifying the subframe to take it, converting the chain drive to shaft drive, getting the electronics working, etc. A good 1380 with a decompression plate, a nice head, cam, maniflow manifold and supercharger should see you pushing 170bhp.

Yes, but that's a 1.4 litre. Motorbikes are half that. Also, I don't want anything near 170bhp

Owen

Putting CC's aside, what are you going to do for insurance?

Daniel S

Owen wrote: »

Putting CC's aside, what are you going to do for insurance?

If possible, insure as a normal mini. Tell them of course that it has had it's engine replaced. I'm thinking they'll either charge me insurance as a motorbike or as the same cc mini equivilant.

Owen

They won't. Trust me. I'm in a Mini Club, the car will be pretty much uninsurable unless you go down the proper route of having engineers certs, paying a fortune for insurance, and hoping a company will even cover you in the first place. Insurance companies aren't thick. Even by some stroke of luck if they insured you based on CC's (Which is unlikely as they know the Mini CC capacities, 850, 998, 1275, 1380, 1430, etc, etc) by not telling them it's a motorbike engine and declaring the mods to the subframe, chain to shaft mods, you are immediately uninsured. All it'll take is one savvy Gard with an ANPR system in the car to remove the vehicle from you and have it impounded.

Alfagtamini

my last mini had a 1380cc lump. twin inch & 3/4 carbs, racing cam and rockers.
expertly tuned by Ger O Leary in Ballincollig.

Was ran on a dyno at 113hp. The torque steer was insane but what a car!

A mini is not a mini without the A series engine.

sold it 3 years ago and have been trying to track down the owner to but it back ever since

Owen

paulryanmini wrote: »

sold it 3 years ago and have been trying to track down the owner to but it back ever since

I'm afraid that when I'm able to afford to buy my JCW back I won't be able to find it either ...:(

Daniel S

Owen wrote: »

They won't. Trust me. I'm in a Mini Club, the car will be pretty much uninsurable unless you go down the proper route of having engineers certs, paying a fortune for insurance, and hoping a company will even cover you in the first place. Insurance companies aren't thick. Even by some stroke of luck if they insured you based on CC's (Which is unlikely as they know the Mini CC capacities, 850, 998, 1275, 1380, 1430, etc, etc) by not telling them it's a motorbike engine and declaring the mods to the subframe, chain to shaft mods, you are immediately uninsured. All it'll take is one savvy Gard with an ANPR system in the car to remove the vehicle from you and have it impounded.

I've said it a few times (cos I knew this would happen), I want to do this legitimately. If I have to tune the standard engine, so be it.

Owen

Fair enough, but your last post did imply you wanted to hope the Insurance company wouldn't pick up on the fact that it's a bike engine.

Tuning the standard engine will be the least time consuming and probably least expensive option too.

Alfagtamini

Owen wrote: »

I'm afraid that when I'm able to afford to buy my JCW back I won't be able to find it either ...:(

I know the feeling, i had to sell mine as it needed a gearbox refurb and i couldn't afford it

langdang

Daniel S wrote: »

I've said it a few times (cos I knew this would happen), I want to do this legitimately. If I have to tune the standard engine, so be it.

Like Owen, I fail to see the connection between your post #24 and your previous post #20
Start small and standard and work up, not a hope you'd be legitimately insured on a motorbike engined mini at 18, even if it was a 50cc scooter engine! Kit car + 18yrs old is a no-no for insurers.

Daniel S

Daniel S wrote: »

If possible, insure as a normal mini. Tell them of course that it has had it's engine replaced. I'm thinking they'll either charge me insurance as a motorbike or as the same cc mini equivilant.

Daniel S wrote: »

I've said it a few times (cos I knew this would happen), I want to do this legitimately. If I have to tune the standard engine, so be it.

langdang wrote: »

Like Owen, I fail to see the connection between your post #24 and your previous post #20
Start small and standard and work up, not a hope you'd be legitimately insured on a motorbike engined mini at 18, even if it was a 50cc scooter engine! Kit car + 18yrs old is a no-no for insurers.

If possible, replace with a motorbike engine and insure. They'll either charge me motorbike insurance, normal insurance or just not quote.

If not, use standard engine, tune it and insure.

That's all I'm saying.

Now that you mention kit car, I could try the Irish Kit Car Club.

langdang

And what we're trying to tell you is insurance doesn't work like you think it does - you can't insure it legitimately as a normal mini if its far from a normal mini. And they certainly won't say "mini with a motorbike engine, oh we'll insure it as a Varadero for the craic, that'll be nice and cheap"

At 18, they'll put a saddle on you and ride you round the county for a boggo 75hp golf!

You'll also find that many insurers don't want cars (even standard ones) over 14years (wont quote or will apply a loading to anything over 10)

We all had great ideas for a cool car at that age, but the reality is that unless you have bags of cash or you are a lying skanger, you'll have to start small and standard for insurance.

Daniel S

langdang wrote: »

And what we're trying to tell you is insurance doesn't work like you think it does - you can't insure it legitimately as a normal mini if its far from a normal mini. And they certainly won't say "mini with a motorbike engine, oh we'll insure it as a Varadero for the craic, that'll be nice and cheap"

At 18, they'll put a saddle on you and ride you round the county for a boggo 75hp golf!

You'll also find that many insurers don't want cars (even standard ones) over 14years (wont quote or will apply a loading to anything over 10)

We all had great ideas for a cool car at that age, but the reality is that unless you have bags of cash or you are a lying skanger, you'll have to start small and standard for insurance.

Okay, fair enough. I still would like to restore a mini though.

If a car has to be older than the 1/1/80 this year, will that change to 1/1/81 next year with regard to tax and nct?

JP 1800

At 18 you will not get classic car insurance period, as mentioned you will need to be over 25 with 5 years experience. If you want to modify a mini the sensible route is to tune the A series engine or fit a V-Tec engine ( very expensive ). Any modifications will need to be declared to your insurance or you will invalidate your policy. The engineers report needs to be done by a qualified automotive engineer and not just an engineer, they will need to be registered as such and approved and recognised by the insurance company. Hope this helps

Daniel S

JP 1800 wrote: »

At 18 you will not get classic car insurance period, as mentioned you will need to be over 25 with 5 years experience. If you want to modify a mini the sensible route is to tune the A series engine or fit a V-Tec engine ( very expensive ). Any modifications will need to be declared to your insurance or you will invalidate your policy. The engineers report needs to be done by a qualified automotive engineer and not just an engineer, they will need to be registered as such and approved and recognised by the insurance company. Hope this helps

I was at lunch there with my dad and he's going to help now. He says I should just restore one to factory spec, or very close at least. He's been working as an engineer for over 35 years so he knows all about engineering reports. He said "Just don't even go there.".

I think I'll be restoring a Mini and driving mam's Yaris (as a named driver) for now :pac:.

weeder

weeder wrote: »

sure once you declare you have a 100bhp+ motorbike under the hood wont they tax you on that? cc isnt the be all and end all,

Daniel S wrote: »

But cars older than 1980 only pay 48 euro tax. I want to do everything legitimately aswell as cheaply.

i actually meant insurance, not tax, my bad. but yeah, cc doesnt matter a **** they will look at many factors.

langdang

Daniel S wrote: »

I think I'll be restoring a Mini

Cool, especially if your dad can help you out.

Daniel S wrote: »

and driving mam's Yaris (as a named driver) for now :pac:.

Unfortunately:o that's the best a lot of fella's your age can hope for. You'll have to suffer it a few years. Drive safe lad...