VVW Passat 2.0 tdi

dave1969

Hi All
New to the forum. Have a major prob with my 2008 Passat 2.0 tdi. Oil pump balance shaft (gear type) has failed leaving me with a bill for €2600. Car has only done 55K. VW or dealer wont entertain covering any of the cost. Would love to know but no one can answer why did this fault occur on a 3½ year old car with only 55,000 miles. The car has always been serviced on time and with genuine VW parts. It has a full VW service history from new.

Hard to think that this was caused by general wear and tear, the car is not old enough or have enough mileage for that. I am trying to get them to accept that this balance shaft failure is a manufacturing/product defect and was not my fault/responsibility in any way, as I always had the car maintained according to VW’s specifications and used genuine parts at all times.

Has anyone else here come across this prob. I know it was a prob on older chain driven pumps on the passat and audi engine. I need evidence that this was a known prob on the 2.0 tdi engine.

George Dalton

Bad design pure and simple.

I have some pictures of the drive shaft that wears in them I will post them later on if I get a chance.

EPM

It's a well known problem with that engine in Passats and bigger Audis.

I'd try for a goodwill gesture. Find a dealer that will fight your corner. If not take it out of the dealer and straight to a vag specialist. It will be cheaper but still should not be happening.

taintabird

dave1969 wrote: »

Hi All
New to the forum. Have a major prob with my 2008 Passat 2.0 tdi. Oil pump balance shaft (gear type) has failed leaving me with a bill for €2600. Car has only done 55K. VW or dealer wont entertain covering any of the cost. Would love to know but no one can answer why did this fault occur on a 3½ year old car with only 55,000 miles. The car has always been serviced on time and with genuine VW parts. It has a full VW service history from new.

Hard to think that this was caused by general wear and tear, the car is not old enough or have enough mileage for that. I am trying to get them to accept that this balance shaft failure is a manufacturing/product defect and was not my fault/responsibility in any way, as I always had the car maintained according to VW’s specifications and used genuine parts at all times.

Has anyone else here come across this prob. I know it was a prob on older chain driven pumps on the passat and audi engine. I need evidence that this was a known prob on the 2.0 tdi engine.

Had the misfortune to have had to change an engine in one of those foe the exact same problem but it had higer milage on it from what I gather its a known fault on certin engine codes of the 2.0l

lomb

Whats your engine code?
Should be 3 or 4 letters on the inside of the service book.

George Dalton

Ok here we are, the way the system works is that the balance shaft is driven by gears from the crankshaft. The early 2.0TDI used a chain but it was troublesome so they changed to gear drive.

The oil pump is situated at the back of the balance shaft where it is in turn driven off the balance shaft by a hex shaped bar. About half of the total length of the bar is in the oil pump but it only extends into the end of the balance shaft by about 25mm. For some reason the bar is quite a loose fit in the balance shaft which means that over time the corners wear off until eventually it gets to the stage where the balance shaft is spinning as normal but the oil pump isn't being driven.

Pictures below of a worn drive bar. This was removed from a 2008 Audi A6 @ 129,000km as a preventative maintenance measure.

The wear on the end of the shaft is clear to see. This probably would have failed within a short space of time if it hadn't been removed.






The newer balance shaft assembly is slightly improved in that it features a longer drive bar which extends further into the balance shaft which should extend the mileage they do before wearing out. But it is just a modification of a sh1te design rather a proper cure for the problem.

-Corkie-

I know that shaft is only a fiver but what labour is involved in changing it George as in how much.

George Dalton

It depends on the car, on a Passat it is easy enough to drop the sump and remove the balance shaft but on the A4/A6 it is much more awkward as it involves lowering the front subframe.

dave1969

Thanks for that. I am at my wits end with the hassle of this. Dealer is totally f****** useless. I really don't know what side he is on. VW customer care dont give a ****e. You would think they would want to protect the reputation of their cars.

Really dont know what to do. Cant afford a bill like this. Have told them to go ahead and repair. Car in with main dealer since Dec 12th. They keep telling me part has to come from Germany and as of today (Jan 17th) it still hasnt been touched. Was on to a solicitor. He said its not enough to say this is a known fault. He needs hard evidence and examples, particularly of cases where VW or Audi paid to replace this themselves. Anyone out there please before I have a nervous breakdown.

dave1969

Sorry lomb cannot access engine code as car and all documents are in garage at the minute.

George Dalton

I don't know of anyone that has managed to get anywhere with the dealer on these. The best thing for you is to take it out of the dealer and get it repaired elsewhere. At least then it won't cost you quite as much.

Is your turbo ok by the way? €2600 sounds like it isn't included in the quote. Usually when the pump drive fails it takes the turbo with it in a matter of seconds. If that is the case €2600 isn't going to get you back on the road paying main dealer rates.

-Corkie-

-Corkie- wrote: »

I know that shaft is only a fiver but what labour is involved in changing it George as in how much.

Is this the shaft you were referring to for your car?, I really thought the 1.9s had a different set up.

dave1969

yeah the 2600 includes quote for turbo. 1459 for balance shaft and 1200 for turbo if required.

EPM

RoverJames wrote: »

Is this the shaft you were referring to for your car?, I really thought the 1.9s had a different set up.

Corkie has a 170 highline.

EPM

EPM wrote: »

Corkie has a 170 highline.

Oh :cool:
Thought he had a 1.9 for some reason, cheers.

George Dalton

dave1969 wrote: »

yeah the 2600 includes quote for turbo. 1459 for balance shaft and 1200 for turbo if required.

Does that include labour? It sounds too cheap to me.

lomb

George Dalton wrote: »

Ok here we are, the way the system works is that the balance shaft is driven by gears from the crankshaft. The early 2.0TDI used a chain but it was troublesome so they changed to gear drive.

The oil pump is situated at the back of the balance shaft where it is in turn driven off the balance shaft by a hex shaped bar. About half of the total length of the bar is in the oil pump but it only extends into the end of the balance shaft by about 25mm. For some reason the bar is quite a loose fit in the balance shaft which means that over time the corners wear off until eventually it gets to the stage where the balance shaft is spinning as normal but the oil pump isn't being driven.

Pictures below of a worn drive bar. This was removed from a 2008 Audi A6 @ 129,000km as a preventative maintenance measure.

The wear on the end of the shaft is clear to see. This probably would have failed within a short space of time if it hadn't been removed.






The newer balance shaft assembly is slightly improved in that it features a longer drive bar which extends further into the balance shaft which should extend the mileage they do before wearing out. But it is just a modification of a sh1te design rather a proper cure for the problem.

Hiya George interesting, can I ask if the 09 on common rail 2l tdi fixes the problem overall or should I be worried?
Also if the oil pump fails slowly? then surely the engine has been running down on oil pressure and it may not be worth repairing? How to know what damage is done?

George Dalton

I don't know for certain about the common rail engines. I haven't seen one have this trouble or heard of one for that matter but most of them are still in the dealer network for servicing or whatever so I wouldn't be in a position to tell you one way or the other.

The engine is generally fine once the owner pulls over and stops when the oil pressure warning comes on. Unfortunately by then it is usually already too late for the turbo, it will run its bearings in a matter of seconds running without oil supply. But the engine should be ok. You have to remember that there is nothing wrong with the actual pump just that the drive to it fails. So the engine should be running correct oil pressure pretty much up until the moment the drive fails.

-Corkie-

EPM wrote: »

Corkie has a 170 highline.

This one is 140 only until Joe Power gets it.. The last black one was 170.

@George what sort of money are you talking to change the shaft on a 08 Passat. Do they wear on all 2.0 units even with frequent servicing. I am just thinking the op's car had roughly 90k KMS. I wonder how often he serviced it...

George Dalton

Corkie, about €225 including new oil and filter.

I don't think servicing makes any great difference to the wear on these shafts. It seems to be hit and miss, have seen them fail at 100,000km, the picture of the one I posted was worn but not to the point of failure at 129,000km, I had a 06 A6 in last year with 230,000km on it for major engine work unrelated to the oil pump and the drive bar was original in that one and had never caused problems. We changed it anyway as we had the engine totally stripped down for new pistons.

-Corkie-

I might change it myself.. I will chat u saturday about it..

George Dalton

It is easy enough to do if you are handy with the spanners, the balance shaft has to be timed but setting it up is straightforward.

The replacement shaft you get from the dealer is the newer longer type so won't fit your balance shaft. You can either buy one of those and shorten it or else you can re-use the old shaft by turning it around so that the unworn end is now in the balance shaft.

Feel free to interrogate me on Saturday

taintabird

George Dalton wrote: »

Ok here we are, the way the system works is that the balance shaft is driven by gears from the crankshaft. The early 2.0TDI used a chain but it was troublesome so they changed to gear drive.

The oil pump is situated at the back of the balance shaft where it is in turn driven off the balance shaft by a hex shaped bar. About half of the total length of the bar is in the oil pump but it only extends into the end of the balance shaft by about 25mm. For some reason the bar is quite a loose fit in the balance shaft which means that over time the corners wear off until eventually it gets to the stage where the balance shaft is spinning as normal but the oil pump isn't being driven.

Pictures below of a worn drive bar. This was removed from a 2008 Audi A6 @ 129,000km as a preventative maintenance measure.

The wear on the end of the shaft is clear to see. This probably would have failed within a short space of time if it hadn't been removed.






The newer balance shaft assembly is slightly improved in that it features a longer drive bar which extends further into the balance shaft which should extend the mileage they do before wearing out. But it is just a modification of a sh1te design rather a proper cure for the problem.

Ford tractor engines had a similar shaft driving the oil pump and they suffered the same ware as these

George Dalton

So my dad told me the first time we had one of these apart

dave1969

George have you any idea when the shaft was changed to the longer drive bar. I am going to write to VW customer care (prob a waste of time) but if i can identify that the shaft was modified it indicates that they knew there was a fault with them

George Dalton

I don't know exactly when they changed it. The newest 2.0TDI I have had the balance shaft out of would be 2008 and they have the shorter bar. Any new balance shaft units I bought going back to 2010 have had the longer bar. So the changeover was somewhere around 2009/2010 I reckon. I reckon you are wasting your time writing to customer care about this issue. You are far from the first person to do it.

dave1969

I know that but at least it will allow me to let off a bit of steam and tell them what I think