can you make money in cattle

celticburnout

Can you make money from a small amount of land with cattle. I have 12acres and was thinking of starting with a few cattle on it. What sort of return could you get against renting out the land . Am hoping to get advise on what breeds to keep and how long to hold on to them to make money. Not interested in calves as i know they need a lot more work. Please dont say not to bother, looking for advise if i was just to think about it. Thanks

dudara

Moved to Farming & Forestry

dudara

blue5000

12 acres is small scale for cattle. If you had pedigree cows eg hereford/angus or perhaps charolais you would be getting a high value output from smaller numbers. Do you have much experience of cattle?

bob charles

you could make a clean fortune:D:D, 12ac @ 150 an ac is €1800, doubt a novice (sorry) will make that of 12ac with no risk or headaches

Attie

Need to be as cute as a sh!t house rat to do this.

Its like the chap who asked old man on road directions to Dublin only to be told if it was him ( old man ) he would not start here but seeing as you’re here.

Not being smart here.
Yes you can get a few Es but you need to know what you are doing.
Do you have any experience in marts or buying cattle by hand this is where you will sink or swim its dog eat dog go easy and don’t barrow any money in this venture.
Start small and work up, best of luck.
attie
PS
As Blue says pedigree may be the road to go

whelan1

yup if you're thinking pedigree angus i know where you could get some stock:)

Attie

Missed this show tonight might be some interesting set ups shown.
Their is a piece on pedigree Herford bull's.
Also Ear to the ground tomarrow night.


http://www.u.tv/utvplayer/video/141888

celticburnout

bit of experience working on uncle's farm for years but its a long time ago now.
i agree bout the risk free option of renting out the land would be best, but want to have a look at the options.
i was thinking pedigree alright Angus being my first option. and starting very slow. can understand its a mind field for a novice.
thanks for all the comments so far. what time frame should i hold the cattle to turn a profit.

Birdnuts

celticburnout wrote: »

Can you make money from a small amount of land with cattle. I have 12acres and was thinking of starting with a few cattle on it. What sort of return could you get against renting out the land . Am hoping to get advise on what breeds to keep and how long to hold on to them to make money. Not interested in calves as i know they need a lot more work. Please dont say not to bother, looking for advise if i was just to think about it. Thanks

I'm attempting to do something similiar with a small plot in North Mayo - I work/live in Wicklow so depend on relatives to keep the show on the road. Only 2 years into the project but happy enough with things so far. Got a decent price for 2 calves recently but overall don't think I'll be able to retire on it just yet;)

PS: Where in the country are you and how good is the land??

cartonj

You will not make a sustainable income off cattle on 12 acres. Rent it out to make a bit of money or keep a few animals as a hobby.

lakill Farm

Will you make €s? No, but as the lads to say "twill keep a few pound together" :rolleyes:

I have 12 acres which came with the house i November 2009. Advantage , it had slatted shed and also a 40x40 workshop so i just had to stock. Because money was tight i went calf route and rear 20 a year and sell at 18/20 months. Nothing fancy its a hobby but last year we took another 19 acres and also a large garden of 2 acres and managed to cut silage and make a few euro

The lad before me in the house use to buy in 6 month old calves weaned and feed them on the grass for the summer and buy in silage (his brother sells silage so it was always available at the right price)

cartonj wrote: »

You will not make a sustainable income off cattle on 12 acres. Rent it out to make a bit of money or keep a few animals as a hobby.

celticburnout

thats what its going to be. a hobby that might pay a little and see what grows from there.My idea is similar to the person before ya lakill farm, stock pedigree weaned and keep sumer,winter,sumer then sell on. what ye think. The land would be good, in tipperary.

lakill Farm

I just wonder how hard and at what price will you buy pedigree weanlings? Dont they say pedigree have lower immute systems.

Id say to you, pick up a few char or lim weanlings, but thats just my idea and fatten for the fractory if the land is good. In on westmeath/meath border and lots of lads do that around me.

celticburnout wrote: »

thats what its going to be. a hobby that might pay a little and see what grows from there.My idea is similar to the person before ya lakill farm, stock pedigree weaned and keep sumer,winter,sumer then sell on. what ye think. The land would be good, in tipperary.

Tipp Man

Depends what you mean by making money - if you mean make a living then most definataly not - cattle lads with 10 times that amount of land can find it hard to make a living.

On the other hand if by making money you mean a couple of extra thousand to supplement your income then most definately.

couple of options open to you:

Summer grazing - buying cattle in spring sell in autumn, smaller cattle will put on more weight over summer and leave better margin on your money but risk of TB, bigger cattle to factory in autumn eliminate TB risk. This system is ideal if you don't want to be tied down to feeding cattle for winter. Very little work involved.

Autumn to Autumn - buy cattle around 450kg in Autumn and sell to factory following Autumn. A steady system as you are replacing stock as it is sold (disadvantage of summer grazing). more costs then summer grazing as you have to cut silage and have housing etc. Also need to feed in winter which could tie you down

Calf to beef (steers) - need to buy very little stock every year - 6 calves would probably do you per year - finish at 2.5 years. Advantage is not much time spent in marts and not rearing too many calves. Disadvantage is its a long time between buying a calf and getting a return on him - plenty of costs in between - need some kind of housing as well

Calf to beef (bulls) - similar to steers but you'd be getting rid of them at least 6 months earlier. Advantage could hold more stock but beware this is a high cost system - personally not a fan of this

Calf to 1.5 years - probably the easiest and most profitable system of the lot, small money spent on stock purchases, return is relatively fast at 1.5 years and expenses aren't too bad. Bit of work in calves but you wouldn't have many of them

Probably a million and 1 other systems - but your dealing with small acres so unfortunately cattle on this size won't make you rich - but they won't break you either

celticburnout

Thanks tipp man for your full account.Thats all i want few euro extra and fulltime work else where. Can you give me a little more on the spring autum option, what return per head could you make.what size to buy at and how many to keep on 12 acres. graet advise cheers.
was looking at char lakillfarm, what you stock yourself.

lakill Farm

Angusx and Herfordx heifers .

celticburnout wrote: »

Thanks tipp man for your full account.Thats all i want few euro extra and fulltime work else where. Can you give me a little more on the spring autum option, what return per head could you make.what size to buy at and how many to keep on 12 acres. graet advise cheers.
was looking at char lakillfarm, what you stock yourself.

Farmtrader

I'd buy weanlings in Spring, look out for hardy cattle that look like they have good breeding ie. Charolais/Limousin/Simmental/Belgian Blues and still have room for improvement stay away from cattle that look too good. Make sure they are weaned. I'd then sell them as forward stores in the Autumn for lads who like to finish cattle inside.

And remember;
Stay away from fast cars, fast women and fattening cattle in the winter.

But the reality is you won't make a cent. I am planning on buying a few cattle myself for a hobby but I am motivated entirely by love of cattle and am completely aware that I will never make a penny out of it. Probably buy a pair of pedigree Charolais heifers, I'd be better off if I burnt the money.

Good luck and enjoy. Keep us posted as to how you are getting on.

JohnBoy

might be hard to make money, but dont forget the tax advantages.

you'll be able to deduct costs of maintenance on machinery, land and various other things, so you mightnt make money as such, but you can get something back by way of spending it.

if that makes any sense.

Pharaoh1

celticburnout wrote: »

Thanks tipp man for your full account.Thats all i want few euro extra and fulltime work else where. Can you give me a little more on the spring autum option, what return per head could you make.what size to buy at and how many to keep on 12 acres. graet advise cheers.
was looking at char lakillfarm, what you stock yourself.

I farm 22 acres of grassland with no yard or sheds. I bought 31 continental bull/bullock weanlings avg weight 300kg last March. Sold as stores in Oct/November at 500kgs with a gross margin of a little over 400 euro per head. It was my best ever year mainly due to price rises through the year which was really a once off.
I hope to do something similar this year but obviously cattle will be more expensive. There is a small profit but even for such a simple operation there are significant costs and if you don't achieve decent weight gain there will not be any profit.
Also don't underestimate the amount of work involved and all the things that have to be looked after if results are to be achieved.

Farmtrader

JohnBoy wrote: »

might be hard to make money, but dont forget the tax advantages.

you'll be able to deduct costs of maintenance on machinery, land and various other things, so you mightnt make money as such, but you can get something back by way of spending it.

if that makes any sense.

But you're still losing, making less money by starting a loss making enterprise does reduce your tax liability, but purely on the basis that you are making less money. You end up paying less tax but you also end up with less in your back pocket.
As I said I would only keep cattle if 'keeping cattle' is your priority if your plan is to make extra income then do something else with your time.

Farmtrader

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

I farm 22 acres of grassland with no yard or sheds. I bought 31 continental bull/bullock weanlings avg weight 300kg last March. Sold as stores in Oct/November at 500kgs with a gross margin of a little over 400 euro per head. It was my best ever year mainly due to price rises through the year which was really a once off.
I hope to do something similar this year but obviously cattle will be more expensive. There is a small profit but even for such a simple operation there are significant costs and if you don't achieve decent weight gain there will not be any profit.
Also don't underestimate the amount of work involved and all the things that have to be looked after if results are to be achieved.

Sounds like the right way to do it. But don't underestimate the work involved.

Tipp Man

To be fair there is very very little work (none really) in summer grazing cattle

Buy em, dose em, sell em

Weight gain is the key to making money in summer grazing so you need decent grass and you need to be able to manage it. buy as early as you can and sell as late as you can and you'll do ok

JohnBoy

Farmtrader wrote: »

But you're still losing, making less money by starting a loss making enterprise does reduce your tax liability, but purely on the basis that you are making less money. You end up paying less tax but you also end up with less in your back pocket.
As I said I would only keep cattle if 'keeping cattle' is your priority if your plan is to make extra income then do something else with your time.

yes and no.

and doesnt apply to all situations.

we have assets, land and buildings. they're in a poor state of repair.

we have two basic choices, do something about it or dont.

we have chosen to do something about it, and are working on improving the state of the place.

Now if we were not farming we couldnt offset any of those costs against tax, but we are so we can offset it.


we're not making money, but we're improving our asset in a very cost effective manner.

MfMan

Tipp Man wrote: »

Summer grazing - buying cattle in spring sell in autumn, smaller cattle will put on more weight over summer and leave better margin on your money but risk of TB, bigger cattle to factory in autumn eliminate TB risk. This system is ideal if you don't want to be tied down to feeding cattle for winter. Very little work involved.

Not entirely. Cattle can and do show lesions when slaughtered, thus rendering the seller's herd restricted or locked up, pending clear tests.

Re; the OP, he/she hasn't said if the land is in one block or divided up, a must for keeping cattle in order to graze rotationally and give the grazed portion time to re-grow. Easiest way to go IMHO would be to buy lightish stores in Spring, c. 350 - 400kg, let them graze away all summer, introduce a bit of meal feeding in September/October and sell them through the marts coming near to November. If they're of good type, there'll always be buyers for them. They wouldn't need much in the way of maintenance , maybe a worm drench if they're a bit soft and a fluke dose, particularly if the ground is wettish. Alternatively, buy stronger stores, +500Kg, let them graze and start finishing them in August/Sept., i.e. start feeding them progressively larger amounts of meal until fit to kill. Slight problem is that they mightn't all be fit together and you may have to sell them in smaller lots. Also bear in mind that you probably will have to have an annual herd test at some stage if keeping cattle every year.

Tipp Man

MfMan wrote: »

Not entirely. Cattle can and do show lesions when slaughtered, thus rendering the seller's herd restricted or locked up, pending clear tests.

.

If all your cattle are factory cattle then it doesn't matter as you are not going to the mart. If a bullock does show lessions then it doesn't matter as the OP won't have any stock to have locked up - and even if they do have a couple they are factory stock which can still be killed - regardless of being locked up

MfMan

Tipp Man wrote: »

If all your cattle are factory cattle then it doesn't matter as you are not going to the mart. If a bullock does show lessions then it doesn't matter as the OP won't have any stock to have locked up - and even if they do have a couple they are factory stock which can still be killed - regardless of being locked up

Yes, but if he wants to stock up again the following year, he may have to have a herd test then, or else get a letter from his vet stating that he was out of cattle over winter. The Dept. are fussy / thorough about herds that are restricted and I don't know if anyone keeping cattle for even part of every year can avoid having a test indefinitely.

Tipp Man

MfMan wrote: »

Yes, but if he wants to stock up again the following year, he may have to have a herd test then, or else get a letter from his vet stating that he was out of cattle over winter. The Dept. are fussy / thorough about herds that are restricted and I don't know if anyone keeping cattle for even part of every year can avoid having a test indefinitely.

My point is not that he can avoid having a herd test (he probably can't)

My point is that if you are going to the factory with all your stock then the herd test doesn't matter as you have an outlet for your animals. They can be fussy all they want but if you have no animals then how can they restrict you from selling no animals??

thus having factory cattle eliminates the TB risk (not of getting TB but of having to deal with the consequences)

MfMan

Tipp Man wrote: »

My point is not that he can avoid having a herd test (he probably can't)

My point is that if you are going to the factory with all your stock then the herd test doesn't matter as you have an outlet for your animals. They can be fussy all they want but if you have no animals then how can they restrict you from selling no animals??

thus having factory cattle eliminates the TB risk (not of getting TB but of having to deal with the consequences)

aaah I see. It's hasslesome being restricted though, having to buy and sell under permit, though acquiring these permits can now be done via email instead of having to call to your local DVO. Also having to have 2 clear tests in order to be free again.

Attie

In all this my experience of grazing beef all summer sell in autumn the beef barons round the ring can be counted on your two hands.

Take a good cold store 400k out in march and the ring will have many hands sticking out looking them.

Now I know this is expensive but with good management eg make the best silage you can and make enough of it as buying in sh!t will set all your good work back, keep their backs dry and out of drought's I've got 1/2 to 3/4k on silage alone.

Have your silage tested lets ye know how little/much meals and minerals to feed to keep them right.
Good luck attie.

celticburnout

thanks for all help got good advise here and the positive look i think i needed. going to do more research this year and be ready for next spring. think it will turn out to be a great hobby for me and my young son. hopefully we might make a little. will get back next spring for final advise before i start. best of look everybody. got some good advise on kingstown thread as well for anyone following or in the same boat as me. see ye in the mart!!!