Can I just say...

royalcarlowgc

Well done to our favourite member 'Tones' who finished 4up for 11 Holes in a competition in Carlow yesterday.. finished 3rd I think.

k.p.h

A step in the right direction anyway, Fair play.

Well we all know my position on this, so here's a tune for all the ambitious out there. From the soundtrack from The Harder They Come,never seen the movie but it's one of the best soundtracks ever. Sweet ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18EAqHx2lMk

Redzah

royalcarlowgc wrote: »

Well done to our favourite member 'Tones' who finished 4up for 11 Holes in a competition in Carlow yesterday.. finished 3rd I think.

By my estimations thats around +7 for 11 holes on a winter course with placing on a calm day. Bearing in mind that to get to 9 he has to consistently beat +9 for 18 holes on a summer course, he has a long way to go. You can call me negative but i'm a realist and don't buy into all this u can do it if u believe etc. etc.

peepee

Bearing in mind that to get to 9 he has to consistently beat +9 for 18 holes on a summer course,

No, that would be the case to stay at 9. Not reach 9. No?

Redzah

peepee wrote: »

No, that would be the case to stay at 9. Not reach 9. No?

While your point above is possible (although confusing, see my 2nd point), it is extremely unlikely that he will get to 9 without consistently beating +9. There will definately be .1's that will halt his progress and that will require better scores than +9.

Also your point above regarding the scoring to stay at 9 but not to reach it does not make sense, in fact an arguement can be made that its easier to stay at 9 than reach it as he will have a 2 shot buffer zone once he reaches 9 but in order to reach 9 he must consistently beat his handicap.

Anyways it prob won't matter come August:D

TheGrump

Redzah wrote: »

By my estimations thats around +7 for 11 holes on a winter course with placing on a calm day. Bearing in mind that to get to 9 he has to consistently beat +9 for 18 holes on a summer course, he has a long way to go. You can call me negative but i'm a realist and don't buy into all this u can do it if u believe etc. etc.

Ah come one, give the guy a break. He was out of line in his previous thread but credit where its due. He finished 3rd in the comp, if he keeps that up all year his handicap will plummet.

Redzah

TheGrump wrote: »

Ah come one, give the guy a break. He was out of line in his previous thread but credit where its due. He finished 3rd in the comp, if he keeps that up all year his handicap will plummet.

Based on his scoring above, it appears that he may have a 12 handicap in him whjch i believe is a lot more possible than single digits but still hard to achieve. There is a huge difference between 12 and 9 and so far he has not shown ability to reach a 9 handicap so i'll play the waiting game and eat virtual humble pie in the unlikely scenario that i am proved wrong.

Kid Charlemagne

Redzah wrote: »

By my estimations thats around +7 for 11 holes on a winter course with placing on a calm day. Bearing in mind that to get to 9 he has to consistently beat +9 for 18 holes on a summer course, he has a long way to go. You can call me negative but i'm a realist and don't buy into all this u can do it if u believe etc. etc.

I dont either Redzah and infact i would agree with most of what you said recently on the dan plan thread.
Nonetheless - he shot a decent score and showed a bit of progress so lets say well done to the lad n leave it at that.

BigChap1759

Let it go lads........let it go :cool:

Myksyk

I think there's a little misapprehension about what it takes to make relatively large drops in handicap and how this is reflected in anyone's handicap sheets at the end of the year. Consistently beating your handicap is actually not a prerequisite and I would say rarely actually happens. I think what is required include the following:

1. Play a lot of competitions - say >50
2. Beat your handicap by good margins in about 20-25% of these competitions.
3. Try to get 0.1s in only about 30-40% of these competitions.
4. Score within your buffer zone in perhaps 30-40% of competitions.

I'll take my own year last year as an example as I had a decent year, falling from 11 to 6.

48 competitions
21 0.1s (2.1) [44%]
18 buffers [c.35%]
8 cuts ranging from 0.4 to 1.2 totaling -6.6 [cut in c. 16% of comps]
Overall drop of 4.5 (5 shots) in cat 2
10.8 >> 6.3

This is only an example and I'm not saying it universally applies. I'm just saying you can get down while still having the vast majority of your competition scores in or below your buffer [in my case ... nearly 80%]. What I had to do was play very well on the times I beat my handicap. I suggest is a likely scenario too for someone like Tones who not only will get bigger cuts in cat3 but may likely see bigger improvements dropping from 18/19 initially. I was still able to manage a comparable, large drop in the more difficult cat2.

Just had a quick check on another guy who fell from 14 to 6 in our club last year.
40 comps
27 buffers or 0.1s [68%]
13 cuts ranging 0.4 to 2.0. [cut in 30%]

There's lots of way but I think beating your handicap consistently is not absolutely necessary.

Myksyk

Playing exceptionally well in a relatively small number of competitions seems definitely the way to go for large cuts with CONGU's introduction this year of the "Exceptional Scoring Reduction" (ESR) which will add extra cuts on top of automatic cuts for players who return two good low scores.

"When a player returns a qualifying score with a nett differential of -4 or below, in a calendar year, this triggers the ESR algorithm, setting an initial marker. An ESR calculation will be initiated the next time a nett differential of -4 or lower is returned by the player. The second qualifying score will also set a new trigger for any subsequent return of another low score when the count within the ESR process would be repeated. The average nett differential of the two scores is then compared to the number of rounds in the sequence to the establish the ESR."

It adds that
"The application of the ESR is at the discretion of the Handicap Committee and would be applied over and above any handicap decrease already automatically applied by the system."

However, it also states that
"Ireland directs that Handicap Committees MUST, following submission of two low qualifying scores by a member, within a calendar year, apply the ESR"

Could mean significant cuts for players who play well above their handicap on any two occasions. Under this system it is possible (perhaps not probable) for a player to be cut as much as 6 strokes in relation to two competitions (taking into account the automatic cuts combined with the ESR), depending on the average nett differential and the number of competitions between each of the good returns. Interesting stuff.

k.p.h

Sounds like a plan Myksyk

irish bloke

Myksyk wrote: »

Could mean significant cuts for players who play well above their handicap on any two occasions. Under this system it is possible (perhaps not probable) for a player to be cut as much as 6 strokes in relation to two competitions (taking into account the automatic cuts combined with the ESR), depending on the average nett differential and the number of competitions between each of the good returns. Interesting stuff.

Good news for Tones!!!;)