Drop Out or Not?

LegacyUser

Going unreg for this and want to make sure no one from my institution knows about this so going to keep the field/ area of study completely to myself.

Basically... I started college at 17 and didn't know what to do so picked my subject at random (a general subject). I thought it was a good move. Turned out I got 500+ in my LC and could have done physio or something 'difficult' like that (even Medicine, if we had the HPAT in my days). I started my subject.. going to call it agricultural science just for the sake of it... in UCD (let's say). I was fantastic at it, it turned out, got top of the class every year and was then offered a funded masters. Did the masters in Ag. Science and then took a year out to travel around the place. Got a call from UCD asking me to do a PhD which would be partially funded by the college. I was thrilled and pretty flattered by the offer...

So I took on the PhD. I'm now in my final year. I've done nothing. My supervisor has been absent for most of my degree and the dept has done nothing to replace him. I have been on my own since the beginning of the PhD, only getting tid bits of advice from other lecturers over coffee/ hounding experts in my field over e-mail. I went to various centres in my college (academic advisors, counseling etc.) to try and sort out the supervisor but nothing. My area is a bit unique and the supervisor was very excited about it but hasn't given me ANY direction since the beginning. I don't know how to write a chapter, how to structure a thesis - NOTHING. I went to generic skills modules every year, I read books on methodologies and the like, I spoke at conferences, got published... but all by myself. Now that I'm getting to the crunch and have to write the actual blasted thesis I'm beginning to realise I hate it.

Every morning I'm in the lab after 12. I sit there, try to figure out what the hell I'm doing, get upset at the fact that I know nothing and am literally wasting my life on this with zero support or guidance. I realise PhDs are independent to a degree, but every other PhD student seems to have great guidance and support on tap.. Where as I am sitting there reading articles trying to sort it out.

Here I am. 24. Lecturing experience. Tutoring experience. An MA. And a failing PhD. I got so upset my mother sent me to the doctor to get me on medication. Been on it for almost a year now. So not worth it. My CV will look terrible now. I never liked ag science, but felt I was pushed into it through flattery. Doing another course would be great, but I've 3k in the bank.. that'd barely get me through my first year of my second undergrad. Nor would it be enough to pay for the fees for an MA.

I don't know even what I want to do.. but I'm going to literally explode.

LegacyUser

Hey there OP,
Don't panic! Was in similar situation a few years ago (overachiever, scholarship in area I wasn't sure about etc.) and got through it fine in the end.

The supervisor situation sounds desperate and you should make a formal complaint to the college about the fact that they never found you a replacement or co-supervisor. But that can come later...For now, concentrate on getting it finished, or if you have a few grand in the bank, like you say, accept that you should take another year to complete. 24 is extremely young to finish a PhD - most people take 4 years + to finish, despite scholarship funding usually lasting for 3 years.

Now, deep breath: you've done great so far - speaking at conferences and - the key thing - getting published. This shows that you have undertaken worthwhile work (it's passed peer-review, right?) and that you're well able to communicate your findings. I'm simplifying here, but the thesis is essentially that process magnified.

You need to insist that your department find you a supervisor. Does the head know exactly what he situation is? It's in their interest to make sure you complete, so don't be afraid to demand what you need. Go directly to the head or acting head and make sure they listen.

Best of luck!

LegacyUser

PhDbum wrote: »

Going unreg for this and want to make sure no one from my institution knows about this so going to keep the field/ area of study completely to myself.

Basically... I started college at 17 and didn't know what to do so picked my subject at random (a general subject). I thought it was a good move. Turned out I got 500+ in my LC and could have done physio or something 'difficult' like that (even Medicine, if we had the HPAT in my days). I started my subject.. going to call it agricultural science just for the sake of it... in UCD (let's say). I was fantastic at it, it turned out, got top of the class every year and was then offered a funded masters. Did the masters in Ag. Science and then took a year out to travel around the place. Got a call from UCD asking me to do a PhD which would be partially funded by the college. I was thrilled and pretty flattered by the offer...

So I took on the PhD. I'm now in my final year. I've done nothing. My supervisor has been absent for most of my degree and the dept has done nothing to replace him. I have been on my own since the beginning of the PhD, only getting tid bits of advice from other lecturers over coffee/ hounding experts in my field over e-mail. I went to various centres in my college (academic advisors, counseling etc.) to try and sort out the supervisor but nothing. My area is a bit unique and the supervisor was very excited about it but hasn't given me ANY direction since the beginning. I don't know how to write a chapter, how to structure a thesis - NOTHING. I went to generic skills modules every year, I read books on methodologies and the like, I spoke at conferences, got published... but all by myself. Now that I'm getting to the crunch and have to write the actual blasted thesis I'm beginning to realise I hate it.

Every morning I'm in the lab after 12. I sit there, try to figure out what the hell I'm doing, get upset at the fact that I know nothing and am literally wasting my life on this with zero support or guidance. I realise PhDs are independent to a degree, but every other PhD student seems to have great guidance and support on tap.. Where as I am sitting there reading articles trying to sort it out.

Here I am. 24. Lecturing experience. Tutoring experience. An MA. And a failing PhD. I got so upset my mother sent me to the doctor to get me on medication. Been on it for almost a year now. So not worth it. My CV will look terrible now. I never liked ag science, but felt I was pushed into it through flattery. Doing another course would be great, but I've 3k in the bank.. that'd barely get me through my first year of my second undergrad. Nor would it be enough to pay for the fees for an MA.

I don't know even what I want to do.. but I'm going to literally explode.

OK, this was me. I crossed that line, finally. I hope that post inspires you somewhat. At the end of the day, I ended up researching and writing my PhD in slightly under two years. It was the best and most fulfilling two years of my life. I cannot emphasise that enough. It was like a rebirth after years of failure. After almost five years of not seeing light at the end of the tunnel, of having to change my thesis and of having my supervisor go abroad for two years on a scholarship it was make or break: I had to be desperate to finish it, or to leave the PhD. I knew I would be unable to live with myself if I walked away from it after all those years - I never walked away from anything. People, including the councillor, advised me that there's more to life than the PhD. I just knew myself well enough to know I had things to prove to myself. I was doing ridiculous hours for those two years, but they were super productive. I kept at it, out of desperation to protect my mental health, prove myself and move on with my life for once and for all. And it felt so much more satisfying at the end to have done it on my own. It is my work. I know it inside out. I know where I was sitting when I wrote each page of it. I've never felt so alive in isolation, the very thing which was my bane for years. But that struggle alone makes completion all the more satisfying.

Get desperate and put all that desperation into producing your thesis quickly. Expect your first draft to be fairly shíte. Get people, ordinary intelligent lay people around you, to read it and give you criticisms. As you go on you'll tighten it up and make it sharper with a developed argument. We all have to start with a blank page and make it into something. I guarantee you that if you keep at it you'll get into that 'zone'. When you do hold on to it and make sure nothing else in your life interferes with it and the completion of this thesis. My life has got so much better since coming out of the hellhole that is the isolation of a PhD. I empathise with your current feeling, but I also envy the great challenge which you're now facing and the great things it can inspire in your life.

I sincerely wish you all the best. It really is worth it.


PS: Your cv will not look terrible, unless you allow it to. It is totally up to you how you interpret these years of your life. I suspect that you have learnt much about yourself and have enough learnt to interpret them positively. None of us grow without pain, struggle or challenge. God bless.

Overheal

Here I am. 24. Lecturing experience. Tutoring experience. An MA. And a failing PhD.

Here *I* am, 24, Retail, Food and Bar Experience, Dropped out of a degree program once already, and on the freshman's end of another which has nothing to do with the first, and huge employment gaps all over the shop.

If you think your CV looks bad, you and I should do coffee sometime. Your CV is what you make it and there are about 4 thousand ways to skin that cat.

LegacyUser

Hi guys,

fantastic posts, particularly Dúlagar's. I've decided to cop on and try and get this friggin thing done by this Christmas. 11 months of LOTS of work. I'm going to try and do it! Thanks for all the great advice, guys. It was much appreciated.

Maga

1) I'd say a good number of PhD students could have written exactly the same post you did, especially if there are supervisor issues (absent PI/wacky PI etc)

2) 24 years old seems really old to you now cos you are a high achiever. Its hard for you to put things in perspective, but trust me, there are people starting PhD at their 30s, 40s. You might think, "ah, but I want to be the best". Well, tell you what. Sometimes the pressure we put upon ourselves to be the best is what keeps us away from actually doing our best. Or even doing our "as good as it gets"

3) Find a mentor. Someone older and more advanced in the career, with whom you can go have a coffee and chat about your feelings and maybe ever about your work. Find two if necessary, one for the emotions, one for the science.

4) Find a mentor.

5) Find a mentor.

6) You will be fine.

Best of luck

saa

The beginning of a thesis is the worst, it sounds like you're looking at the past and the future in a negative way without considering the present.

With the time you have and TASKS (not thesis, make lists) what can you do,
who can you talk to, it's okay to not know how to go about doing something it does not make you a lesser student for asking rather than staying quiet.

You CV will not look bad, you have achieved so much, don't worry if its not exactly where you'd like to be with a PhD at such a young age you will be able to access a lot of opportunities especially with the experience you have.

-Who can you talk to about your Thesis
- Who can you talk to about finances (educational supports or even the SVP support people in education if you are struggling)
-Take time out to relax
-make a time table
-list of tasks for this week not this year!

good luck you will be laughing soon enough.

phdgirl

Hi there, I'm usually a lurker but saw your post and felt compelled to reply! I too am a PhD student and have definitely felt the same way you have. I'm mid-way through my second year (of three funded years) and have found the process very challenging to say the least. I had a bit of a bump with my first year review. Had a very tough examination by people on a panel I'd never met before or communicated anything about my project to. They completely eviscerated me, one faculty member in particular almost seemed to get enjoyment out of it. All of last summer I spent every day re-drafting this chapter just to pass the review - meet the Uni requirements of where I was supposed to be.

As a result of that, my confidence got a serious knock and I had no idea what to do. My supervisor went on sick leave and I felt out to sea, like I wasn't smart enough (even though like you, I've always been a high achiever) and starting to panic over whether I would finish in time, how terrible my c.v. would look if I dropped out, etc.

After finally getting word I was passed to get into second year, I really tried to settle myself. But the niggling doubts that "oh they just passed me because I'm funded" kept interfering with my work. I'd sit at the desk and think how I didn't know as much as I needed to know about critical theory, or I couldn't even write a proper sentence. Stupid things that just built up into huge mountains where I would end up doing no work for two weeks but not sleeping with worry, grinding my teeth at night, panicking all the time! Horrible situation.

I can't tell you what changed for me, but just around November, things started to pick up. I browsed the Ethos website to look at similar theses to see how they were laid out, got myself "Introduction to...." books that I was able to breeze through and they helped me come to understand a lot of the things I had struggled with until that point. I was able to quickly advance after that. Now I'm doing days of 11-7pm in the library with minimal procrastination and even though sometimes a weeks' worth of work turns out not to be structured correctly, I don't freak out but just know how to amend it.

A PhD is as much about self-management as anything else, I think. If you look at all the mountain of things you have to do in a year, you'll freak yourself out. Take it on a week-by-week basis. Have CONFIDENCE in yourself - you can do this!

Dúlagar's advice was just brilliant, I think. These things are sent to test us. You've done excellently getting published, presenting at conferences etc. Just try and shift the focus a little onto your thesis. Don't think of it as "the thesis" - what I do is think of each chapter as an essay I ahve to write for my dream job. That keeps me motivated!

I'm not saying that I'm a model PhD student (I don't think there are any) but the whole process is a series of ups and downs. I have days where I'm still sick with worry over everything but just keep on going. Once you start finding things that hook into your thesis, you'll start having more confidence in your work and then you'll start enjoying it again! Good luck!


Dúlagar says..

Amtmann

I was doing a PhD, with a handsome four-year scholarship. From the outset, psychologically, it wasn't as I'd envisaged. It was making me miserable. Aimlessness and purposelessness are my abiding memories of it. Finally, after 16 months, a very unpleasant catalyst made me take stock and I realised that I needed to quit. It was an epiphany.

I was also worried about my CV, and about how I would tell people that I had dropped out, namely my family and friends. Throughout the PhD months, I typically evaded the questions that they would ask me about how it was progressing, because it wasn't. I had insufficient interest in the subject and my motivation was nil.

How would my withdrawal look to employers? I soon found out. It wasn't a problem. You would be amazed at the number of people who do not complete doctoral studies. We all have a story to tell. And people are very understanding. Since withdrawing, I completed an MA in an area that I love and walked into a good job.

I'm not a doctor, and I won't be a lecturer, as I once wished. But I now have a job that I really like. Things worked out pretty well in the end.

I'm not encouraging you to quit, but I feel the need to state that it's perfectly fine if you do. Life will go on, your worst fears will not come to pass, and you could end up a lot happier.

Feel free to send me a PM if you want to discuss it in more detail.

curlzy

Hey OP,

Nowhere near a PHD student here However, I work full time and I did a degree in the evenings & weekends. Best tip I can give you is to write lists and stick to them, stuff to get done etc. And also pat yourself on the back when you get stuff done, don't be all work work work without reward! Take the time to relax too!

Very best of luck.

LegacyUser

I'm in a relatively similar situation PhDbum. Like you I sometimes worry that I've invested years in this work. Its a constant worry and there is a never ending guilt associated with it!

Remember though, and I have to tell myself this very often, that you could walk away from this in the morning and still get an MSc (you have publications) at least. If its a scientific topic like mine then you have years of lab experience, data collection, publications, presentation skills and demonstrating experience similar to what you would have had if you had been working for those years. Plus you've still got a very good degree behind you. Reminding myself of this just gives me a little comfort when I tend to panic and freak out!!

Just take it one step at the time and be good to yourself!