Will TV3 and 3e join Saorsat, or are there rights issues preventing them?

liamtech

OK. I stated before in several other threads that i 'more than likely' will not bother with Saorsat, as i have a decent saorview reception where i am currently located -

But on a point of clarification, i would like to ask the following question.

TV3 get some license payer money every year - that is to say they get some of the cash raised with our TV license which is fairly high it has to be said...

Why then would they not be included in Saorsat, assuming they will pay for transmission of course? - If we are giving them money then surely ALL Irish people within the republic, are entitled to receive its stations - I understand that it is to do with overspill in Northern Ireland, where consumers obviously DONT pay the irish license.. But not transmitting because a few people in the north may receive these stations, is to be frank... ridiculous! We are not talking about a Massively wide coverage beam covering all of the north, with some more overspill in mainland UK... its a narrow beam... VERY narrow



It seems to cover less than half the north ... IF EVEN!

I understand that this map (Previously posted by the Cush - thanks! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055968485&page=87) probably doesnt fully show where saorsat will be receivable - overspill will undoubtedly be available outside it - otherwise northern donegal is going to be very unhappy! But in all honesty, surely they can work something out where by the stations can be added - with problematic material replaced with a banner saying "Due to licensing reasons, we are unable to" etc etc - If they are taking License Payer money then ALL LICENSE PAYERS should receive the service, should they not?

Id also like to immediately point out that this has nothing to do with whether you like TV3 or 3e - i know many people dont - its more to do with License payer money -

assume for a moment that Saorsat dont cover TV3 and 3e -

• Are people in NON Saorview areas going to have a reduction in their TV license? (I THINK NOT)

This reminds me of when i found out (thanks to Watty) that setanta Ireland get license payer money too! Disgraceful - but TV3 get EVEN MORE THAN THAT -

Peter Rhea

What makes you think TV3/3e won't be on Saorsat? Who has this kind of info?

watty

That's a very ill-informed and alarmist post.

• The signal doesn't stop at 2nd Contour
• Ka-Sat Saorsat will be used to back up feeds to TX sites.
• TV3 may have to pay extra for backup feed and/or for Saorsat.
• Saorsat is to give Irish TV to people with no terrestrial signal

There is NO formal start date, description of service, channels or ANYTHING.

Any extra "rights" cost for TV3 for NI would be negligable as large parts of Derry and Belfast get Analogue Terrestrial overspill of TV3 today.

The TV licence was brought in BEFORE RTE TV existed, and was proposed to start earlier. It's not related to how many channels there are. You have to pay it if you have a TV Receiver. Even if you can only get UK Satellite TV.

That spot is meaningless for TV, it shows the Tooway two-way Internet service area. NI is on the West Scotland Spot For Internet.

Service Areas (actually overlap).
Three contours for Saorsat shown in magenta /purple. My inner-most contour almost entirely covers the Island. There is a smooth gradual reduction in signal across the contours.

The red lines show points where the French Channel/Calais and East Scotland spots cause too much interference. Ballycastle, not Donegal is poorest signal.
See http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat-coverage

The coloured areas are NOT signal coverage, but the SERVICE area for each two-way Internet connection.

If there was no Interference from spots that are the same, i.e. only 4 really different spots rather than 82, you'd find that a larger dish would give about x4 the area of my 2nd contour.



Speculation about TV3 & Saorsat is indeed speculation.

All of N.I. will be able to get Saorsat.

I expect sometime between Spring and Summer the status of Saorsat will be clearer with official LNBs, official dish size for Saorsat alone and official size for dual Freesat/Sky and Saorsat dish.

It's likely that if Tv3 and 3E are on Saorsat, that they would not pay for carriage or DTT Site backup till 24th October 2012 or early November 2012.

watty

Peter Rhea wrote: »

What makes you think TV3/3e won't be on Saorsat? Who has this kind of info?

No-one has any info. Well, I've a little and published it over a year ago. There is no new info. Even the "Saorview" staff hardly know anything except that RTENL are happy with coverage and we might get more info in the Spring.

The "official line is"
1) It's tests only till there is an official announcement.
2) Content of Saorview and Saorsat is up to the Broadcasters, not RTENL.
3) Saorsat is to backup DTT site feeds and provide Fill-in for the 2% to 5% that can't receive Saorview.

No-one will know what TV3 is doing until after the service starts and they decide.

TV3 has 80% approx coverage on Analogue because they refused to pay for all the relays, even though they are in Breach of their licence. On Digital TV3 now has about 95% coverage (Somewhere between 93% and 97% anyway).

If TV3 are not on Saorsat (their decision, nothing to do with ANYONE else) it doesn't affect TV licence, but if a microwave link or fibre is lost to a DTT site, then TV3 and 3E would vanish on DTT, but the other channels would be as if nothing was changed.

watty

I've reported the OP to get the Thread title changed as it's total speculative guessing unless Liamtech owns TV3

The Cush

liamtech wrote: »

TV3 get some license payer money every year - that is to say they get some of the cash raised with our TV license which is fairly high it has to be said...

Why then would they not be included in Saorsat, assuming they will pay for transmission of course?

TV3 don't receive any TV licence money directly like TG4 does (€10m). They do receive money indirectly via the BAI's Sound & Vision Fund as do UTV and Setanta Sports who I guess won't be on Saorsat either.

As Watty says the service is only testing and they have never said that they will/won't be there. I assume if they decide to go the Saorsat route and pay their share of the costs they'll be there.

liamtech

watty wrote: »

I've reported the OP to get the Thread title changed as it's total speculative guessing unless Liamtech owns TV3

I wish i did -

Seriously though i am only responding to speculation voiced in one of the other threads

Ciaran999 wrote: »

I understand it is unlikely TV3 or 3e will ever go on Saorsat as it covers NI. Too many programm rights issues with UTV.

There is obviously rights issue's with some of TV3's and 3e's programs - Obviously we are talking about X Factor, Coronation Street etc...

Also i did state in the post that i understood the limitations of footprints, but you have clarified this for use Watty, thanks again:)

I obviously should have titled the thread differently - perhaps 'Will TV3 and 3e join Saorsat, or are there rights issues preventing them' - If the moderator reads this, i would ask that he consider this title as an alternative -

And i apologize if you believe that the post is attempting to be alarmist - it genuinely wasnt my intention to cause trouble Genuinely folks sorry - its been a long one:D

As to the license, i would have to disagree with you slightly - I like everyone pay the license year in, year out - and firmly believe that if that money is being provided to a station, i and other license payers should be entitled to receive that station - period

If TV3 and 3e are not going to be on Saorsat, then i would genuinely object, and so too would Saorsat users i suspect -

I do believe that the topic warrants discussion but acknowledge that i could have broached it better - i intended to start a thread when the idea was first posited by Ciaran999, but im studying hard for exams in the last week and didnt get around to it... In truth i should have waited until i was a little bit less stressed:o

sorry again, please rename or remove as you feel, but i do think these possible licensing issues with TV3 and 3e in relation to saorsat are worthy of discussion:o

watty

As to the license, i would have to disagree with you slightly - I like everyone pay the license year in, year out - and firmly believe that if that money is being provided to a station, i and other license payers should be entitled to receive that station - period

You are not disagreeing with me. I didn't voice an opinion. The law is unfortunately black and white. If you have TV reception apparatus you need a TV licence. This is the case since August 1961. RTE TV started 31st Dec 1961. Prior to that, a TV needed a Radio licence, even if you had no Radio and discovered you could not pick up the BBC in 1955.

It's amendments to the 1926 law!

The "rights" issues are worth discussing. But ITV plans to absorb UTV's TV operation and the extra "rights" costs for N.I. are likely insignificant compared with Transmission costs.
After all virtually everyone in NI gets ITV on an Aerial, and those needing Satellite are using an incompatible Dish and LNBF pointed in a different direction.

There will be some N.I. Takeup of Saorsat, but most will use the Terrestrial Aerial signals including Irish DVB-T2 mini-mux in the North. About 55% to 70% will be able to get full Saorview direct from transmitters in the Republic (depending how much they spend on an aerial).

Sky N.I. Subs on the other hand work fine in London.

liamtech

I would imagine TV3 and 3e wont be on the min mux for obvious reasons...

Thanks for renaming the thread btw:)

watty

Like that you have to pay money.

They are broke. Like Eircom the victim of a Leveraged buyout. It's time such a thing along with Shorting, naked shorting and buy & selling shares same day or hour should be illegal. If people had to hold shares for a year we would see more stability. Rapid trading isn't investment, it's speculation.

Rick_

I thought one of the reasons why Saorsat is on 9E and not 28.2E is so that they could broadcast all their channels FTA over Ireland and there would be no rights issues as the beam is narrow and reception anywhere further than the island of Ireland is minimal compared to how it would be on 28.2E? For that reason alone I have no doubt that TV 3 and 3e will [eventually] appear on Saorsat. Sure look at how long it took them to get on Saorview and there were no rights issues to worry about there!

MarkK

There were/are no rights issues preventing TV3 going on the more of the smaller analogue transmitters, but they choose not to presumably because of what RTENL wanted to charge them.

So I think it will depend on what RTENL want to charge TV3, and what value TV3 put Saorsat.

Johnboy1951

If TV3 and 3e are not going to be on Saorsat, then i would genuinely object, and so too would Saorsat users i suspect

I would say that if I were in the 2% or so not able to receive Saorview, and (at least up to now) Saorsat being promoted as the alternative for that 2%, I would be quite shocked and upset to find that I could not get all of the same channels as the other 98%.

Unfortunately those 2% will not be large enough numbers to create any sort of 'stink' should the worst fears, as expressed above, about transmitted channels pan out.

.

watty

On Analogue nearly 20% of those that can get TG4 can not get TV3. It was in breach of TV3 licence. They did it to save money.

So, no neither TV3 or BCI will worry about 2%. Only RTE & TG4 seem to worry about coverage.