Pavilion Membership

FixdePitchmark

Met a lad today who said he was a pavilion member of a golf club , what is this ? Anybody hear of it in any club ?

Senna

Its basically between full membership and no membership. You get reduced green fees for a set amount of rounds during the year. Normally there are a few comps especially for Pavilion members and you can also make use of the clubs facilities, i.e. driving range, putting green, club house etc. No idea about handicap or what costs are likes, AFAIK most clubs don't offer its, mine doesn't anyway.

golfnut1

As far as I know it just mean you are a member of the club (have a drink in the bar) but without voting or playing rights. Not commonly used anymore but was popular with clubs in the past with high entrance fees. It was a way of keeping your place in the club if you weren't going to use full membership for that year. Open to correction on this.

J6P

Only course i have heard that does it is Dun Laoghaire

http://www.dunlaoghairegolfclub.ie/clubnews/view/pavilion_membership/

charlieIRL

Moate has it this year too for the first time...no idea what it is though

veetwin

I know a mate is a pavilion member in Royal Dublin. He has a good few friends who are members there so it's of some benefit to him but unless you know a good few members I'd say it's of limited use. As said it gives you accesss to the clubhouse and very limited access to the course with a reduced green fee. Usually seen as a step to full membership.

1916

Very common category of membership, see Grange GC details and report on it

http://www.grangegc.com/pavilion-news/pavilion-membership-report.2097.html

ShriekingSheet

Yes, very common in the old school clubs like Castle, Milltown and Grange. Personally, I find it extremely silly for a few reasons. I've quoted the Grange report a bit to keep it factual, obviously this goes for all the clubs though.

Pavilion Membership was "originally introduced to facilitate friends and relations of Members who wished to make use of the Clubhouse facilities but without having playing rights." So a full member who wished to bring his family/friends to the club for a meal, couldn't do so. However, with PM, he could pay a annual fee for each of them, meaning they'd be let in the door.

This was pretty dumb back then, and is a helluva lot dumber now, given that no member who wishes to bring guests to dinner, and (commendably) financially support the restaurant/bar/club would be turned away - of course their family & friends don't need to be PMs to dine in the club.

However, as we all know, PM developed to serve another function entirely, as the Grange report states; "becoming a Pavilion Member was seen as the route to full membership, and the cost of being a Pavilion Member increased significantly reflecting this."

Basically, committees/members of these clubs established a process where someone seeking to join is first given access to the bar and putting green, so they can suss you out over a (newly shortened) "minimum of 1 year". Then, if you're seen as full member material, and either people die or the club needs an injection of cash via your entry fee, you could be elevated to full member status. Alternatively, you might instead be offered a mini-promotion to 5-Day level for a lesser increase in fee. It's a bit like Scientology

However, if you know the right people, you can skip all of that and just join straight-up as a full member. There's also a lot of sh*t hot juniors who are welcomed into these clubs, with no parents or connections there, who will, in time, also progress to full membership. Similarly, non-elite juniors, sons/daughters of members who just enjoy a couple of games a month, will also progress to full membership virtually automatically.

The point is, you could spend years as a pavilion members, as people do, and all of these types of people are likely get full membership ahead of you. But from the club's point of view, "increasing the number of Pavilion Members will restore the Club to a position of strength by providing a bank of prospective Ordinary/Full Members into the future." So they'd like to have you there, just in case. And of course, take €800 per year off you in the meantime.

My bottom line - PM is pretty useless as a route to full membership, or at least will take years, and the notion of joining purely to use the bar and putting green... anyone who does that needs a swift injectection of cop-on.

As a side note, a social scientist might observe how old establishments have multi-layered hierarchies, with several tiers of membership with widely varying rights (Mens, Ladies, 5 Day, Artisan, Pavilion, Junior, Student) where as newer clubs have equal rights for men and women, and maybe a Junior or Student category, and pretty much every member in the club has exactly the same rights.
Old businesses or the civil service are the same, with lots of levels of seniority, as opposed to new multinationals that have a flat organisational structure, with relatively few levels from entry-level to CEO.

It may sound like the proverbial homophobe that starts with "some of my best are gay, but..., but I do actually like these clubs. I do like the traditional end of golf, and there's lots and lots of sound members of the clubs in question. The whole Pavilion Membership thing could be defended, to be fair, as people are willing to pay for it. But it could also be seen a systematically treating people like dirt, and tainting the game of golf in the process.

f22

I wont say what I feel about the whole thing for fear of more infractions

slumped

I'm a Pavillion member of a club next door to me. Just so I can have a pint there of a Friday night.

Play my golf out of a Distance club now cos I lost my job and can't afford full membership any more

Used to be an engineer for a company that made cruise ships in Italy.

whizbang

to expand this from 1916's post,
does any club currently GUI handicap to pavilion members?

thewobbler

If there is a demand for Pavilion membership in a club, and they don't offer it, then their committee shouldn't be running their business. It's that simple, and anyone who over analyses it beyond simple economics needs a gentle walk beside the sea. Clubs don't invent the need for it - people do.

FixdePitchmark

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Yes, very common in the old school clubs like Castle, Milltown and Grange. Personally, I find it extremely silly for a few reasons. I've quoted the Grange report a bit to keep it factual, obviously this goes for all the clubs though.

Pavilion Membership was "originally introduced to facilitate friends and relations of Members who wished to make use of the Clubhouse facilities but without having playing rights." So a full member who wished to bring his family/friends to the club for a meal, couldn't do so. However, with PM, he could pay a annual fee for each of them, meaning they'd be let in the door.

This was pretty dumb back then, and is a helluva lot dumber now, given that no member who wishes to bring guests to dinner, and (commendably) financially support the restaurant/bar/club would be turned away - of course their family & friends don't need to be PMs to dine in the club.

However, as we all know, PM developed to serve another function entirely, as the Grange report states; "becoming a Pavilion Member was seen as the route to full membership, and the cost of being a Pavilion Member increased significantly reflecting this."

Basically, committees/members of these clubs established a process where someone seeking to join is first given access to the bar and putting green, so they can suss you out over a (newly shortened) "minimum of 1 year". Then, if you're seen as full member material, and either people die or the club needs an injection of cash via your entry fee, you could be elevated to full member status. Alternatively, you might instead be offered a mini-promotion to 5-Day level for a lesser increase in fee. It's a bit like Scientology

However, if you know the right people, you can skip all of that and just join straight-up as a full member. There's also a lot of sh*t hot juniors who are welcomed into these clubs, with no parents or connections there, who will, in time, also progress to full membership. Similarly, non-elite juniors, sons/daughters of members who just enjoy a couple of games a month, will also progress to full membership virtually automatically.

The point is, you could spend years as a pavilion members, as people do, and all of these types of people are likely get full membership ahead of you. But from the club's point of view, "increasing the number of Pavilion Members will restore the Club to a position of strength by providing a bank of prospective Ordinary/Full Members into the future." So they'd like to have you there, just in case. And of course, take €800 per year off you in the meantime.

My bottom line - PM is pretty useless as a route to full membership, or at least will take years, and the notion of joining purely to use the bar and putting green... anyone who does that needs a swift injectection of cop-on.

As a side note, a social scientist might observe how old establishments have multi-layered hierarchies, with several tiers of membership with widely varying rights (Mens, Ladies, 5 Day, Artisan, Pavilion, Junior, Student) where as newer clubs have equal rights for men and women, and maybe a Junior or Student category, and pretty much every member in the club has exactly the same rights.
Old businesses or the civil service are the same, with lots of levels of seniority, as opposed to new multinationals that have a flat organisational structure, with relatively few levels from entry-level to CEO.

It may sound like the proverbial homophobe that starts with "some of my best are gay, but..., but I do actually like these clubs. I do like the traditional end of golf, and there's lots and lots of sound members of the clubs in question. The whole Pavilion Membership thing could be defended, to be fair, as people are willing to pay for it. But it could also be seen a systematically treating people like dirt, and tainting the game of golf in the process.

That is the most comprehensive answers I've seen, since some of the ones in "My Bag Is Smelly". Would your gay friends be allowed into these clubs ? .

But on a serious note , could you expand on why you like these types of clubs. I think it would anger me if a Pavilion Member was passed over for the local judge's son, or, perhaps it was the banker's son 4 years ago.

I think the clubs that have this type of structure are some of the older ones, and some of the best. I'd say most of the lads are sound , but it is my view, that it is not in Irish peoples nature to be subservient to others. It would do my head in. But if you want to play their game you must play by their rules. It just is not a feature of most other sports.

ShriekingSheet

thewobbler wrote: »

If there is a demand for Pavilion membership in a club, and they don't offer it, then their committee shouldn't be running their business. It's that simple, and anyone who over analyses it beyond simple economics needs a gentle walk beside the sea. Clubs don't invent the need for it - people do.

Of course, but that "demand" is for full membership. There's no actual demand for clubhouse admittance and use of the putting green!

And as anyone who's seen this process over the years in action knows, it is in no way a real stepping-stone to full membership for most of these pavilion members. In reality, they're just joining a bank of potential members, which acts as financial comfort for the club - as Grange says themselves.

People are being sold a false notion, and I wouldn't want anyone running my business in such a way.

Demand far outweighs suppply, and what they're doing is sucking money out of the demand group, without really supplying them with anything. That's the economics of it.

A big HOWEVER though. I agree with you. I think people need to cop on, as much as the clubs. A fool and his money, and all that...

JD Dublin

I have pavillion membership of a local club. It's handy from a few perspectves:
1. I don't have to pay Hello Money
2. I don't have to pay 2,000 or what ever the full sub is for 30 games a year
3. I have a young family and the chances of me getting to play 30 times a year are low, so now you're really talking about expensive golf where you don't use the course.

Having said that, the times can be restricted in that there are competitions on over the weekends, but if you can work around that it's okay.

On top of that, I generally have some ignorant gobsite up my behind trying to hurry me along, and they generally assume I'm paying green fees and that it's their right to be ignorant. I often let them through ( I'm slow because I'm a high scorer! ), but I make a point of introducing myself as a Pavillion Member to soften their cough.

Other advantages
4. Restaurant is generally ok and there is no problem getting a Sunday lunch booking.
5. Green fees are cheaper than if I walked in off the street - half price.
6. Practise facilities are available - I tend to practise on the weeks I'm not playing, so factor in a tenner per week for practise maybe 20 times a year.

Overall I think - why would I bother joining a club when I can have all the above without the cost of full membership???

Major drawback - if you want to enter competitions then all the good points count for nothing. Having said that the club organises a few comps every for the Pav members... so you can get a bit of that too.

ShriekingSheet

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

But on a serious note , could you expand on why you like these types of clubs.

They have a proper sense of "club".

When the snow hit hard last year, a group of middle-aged members of one of the clubs in question called each other and arrange to travel around the area in 4x4s with shovels, calling on elderly members of the club, ensuring they were ok and clearing their drive-way.

During the initial bite of the recession, the same club sent a letter to all members, saying that if your livelihood is badly affected, contact the club in strict confidence. The club itself was prepared to make certain considerations, but members who also had the relevent financial skills were also on hand to advise their fellow members.

So yeah, I like the clubs. Just when you take everything into account, they wouldn't be my first choice of golf club.