Length of time between raw & cooked

Zapperzy

How long should I wait between feeding raw food and dry/wet food? For both a cat and a dog. For the dog raw is usually chicken wings or legs, for the cat raw is usually chicken without the bones (also looking into giving her quail and frozen mice). I know they both digest at different rates but is it alright to feed cooked in the morning and raw in the evening time, or should I be doing it on alternate days?

The dogs been getting chicken wings/legs on and off the last 2 years, while the cats only been getting bits of raw chicken the past few weeks, have never passed a thought to mixing the two up to now (only the odd time when I thought the wing was a bit small) and have had no ill effects but maybe I shouldn't be.

DBB

Oooh! Zapperzy, I hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread, but it's not unrelated!
I wonder would dogsfirst (who I'm guessing will see this thread, seeing as there's a bit of a raw food revolution going on around here of late:D) pleeeease answer a question I have yet to get a clear answer on, because nobody seems to know for sure:
Is there a problem feeding raw and dry in the one meal?


Zapperzy, I'll be interested to know what the wisdom is on your question, because again there is mixed advice on this. I originally put my dogs on a home-made diet some time ago on advice from a certain supervet in West Cork who specialises in alternative treatments and diets, and his advice was that you can change them over pretty much immediately (at least, I hope I didn't pick him up wrong...:o).
However, whilst I haven't had any problem with it, some here have posted they've had problems with an immediate change. So, I'm interested to know the rationale behind an immediate vs a gradual change (to a raw diet, as opposed to changing from one dry food to another).

TooManyDogs

I changed mine over cold turkey because I was told they're unlikely to have adverse reactions going to a raw food because it's mostly the additives/grains etc in the dry food can give them change-of-food diahorrea (sp?) but it was much later I heard other people talking about doing it gradually. Mine were grand changing suddenly but then mine are knackers and regularily try to eat well dead and honking rats up the fields :eek:

As regards the feeding raw and dry together, my understanding is that yes they have different digestion rates so the dry food takes much longer to digest than the raw and can hold the raw in the stomach/gut longer than it should be. Apparently not a problem in most cases but if your dog doesn't have good gut flora or has stomach issues they can be affected by the natural bacteria present on raw meat. I would have thought if you fed raw in the morning it'd be well digested by evening time so the dry could have plenty of time to digest overnight.

I'd say as DBB said DogsFirst will be able to give the far more technical answer

Zapperzy

DBB wrote: »

Oooh! Zapperzy, I hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread, but it's not unrelated! a bit of a raw food revolution going on around here of late:D)

Not at all! I love all this raw stuff, find it very interesting. Thinking of basing my research project on it next year and using my fella as a guinea pig! I'v never heard so much about it on here than in the last few weeks, everyone seems to be changing over.

Whispered

Ours are on a base diet of dry biscuits, but I'd often give a half feed and maybe a raw chicken breast a few hours later. The have a pretty constant supply of raw bones too.

They also get cooked liver on occasion, tinned tuna, eggs both raw and cooked, cooked veggies, raw veggies, cheese and some leftovers.

We avoid feeding things like dentastixs and cheaper dog foods (although if in a bind we do feed tinned food too) we don't allow sugars or dried fruits, onions or garlic or anything too salty. But otherwise we're pretty casual about feeding.

Would this be a problem?

planetX

Zapperzy wrote: »

Not at all! I love all this raw stuff, find it very interesting. Thinking of basing my research project on it next year and using my fella as a guinea pig! I'v never heard so much about it on here than in the last few weeks, everyone seems to be changing over.

at first glance I read that as 'using my guinea pig' :eek:
I'd be interested to hear how the frozen mice go, I've been thinking about that too but I have a feeling they won't be touched if not 'fresh'

home from home pets

Can I just ask ... not having heard much about this topic ... by raw food, do you mean "cooked" raw food?

ISDW

home from home pets wrote: »

Can I just ask ... not having heard much about this topic ... by raw food, do you mean "cooked" raw food?

No, raw food, uncooked. If it was cooked, it wouldn't be raw.:)

Zapperzy

home from home pets wrote: »

Can I just ask ... not having heard much about this topic ... by raw food, do you mean "cooked" raw food?

Raw meat and bones! Chicken wings, legs, whole carcasses, lamb ribs, liver, hearts, some even feed whole prey (ie. whole rabbits, fur and all)! If you stick around you'l hear a lot about it.

home from home pets

Zapperzy wrote: »

Raw meat and bones! Chicken wings, legs, whole carcasses, lamb ribs, liver, hearts, some even feed whole prey (ie. whole rabbits, fur and all)! If you stick around you'l hear a lot about it.

wow really? Do you guys not worry about salmonella etc?

Shanao

home from home pets wrote: »

wow really? Do you guys not worry about salmonella etc?

Might as well worry about my salmonella carrying lizards while i'm at it. Though I haven't died yet miraculously. Feeding raw meat is the same as getting meat for ourselves, just be hygienic about it and you'll be fine.

DogsFirst

DBB wrote: »

Oooh! Zapperzy, I hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread, but it's not unrelated!
I wonder would dogsfirst (who I'm guessing will see this thread, seeing as there's a bit of a raw food revolution going on around here of late:D) pleeeease answer a question I have yet to get a clear answer on, because nobody seems to know for sure:
Is there a problem feeding raw and dry in the one meal?


Zapperzy, I'll be interested to know what the wisdom is on your question, because again there is mixed advice on this. I originally put my dogs on a home-made diet some time ago on advice from a certain supervet in West Cork who specialises in alternative treatments and diets, and his advice was that you can change them over pretty much immediately (at least, I hope I didn't pick him up wrong...:o).
However, whilst I haven't had any problem with it, some here have posted they've had problems with an immediate change. So, I'm interested to know the rationale behind an immediate vs a gradual change (to a raw diet, as opposed to changing from one dry food to another).

Re mixing dry and fresh food: no major problem digestively if the dog has already been exposed to both previously. If dry fed only some barfing can arise which I put down to the "nutrient rush" (like a parched man drinking too much water) or simply as the raw meat was too unusual for the dry system, which freaked out. Lot of truth in the second but i think stomach acids have a lot to do with it. Dry systems aren't prepared, the meat doesn't digest and the dog barfs. Likely a mix.

Raw fed dogs not used to dry could react to any one if s vast amount of antigens that is dry food - novel proteins, all denatured by twice heavy cooking, gluten, chemicals, salt, stale rancid fats, whatever. I honestly think its s miracle it stays down!

But mixing it up should be ok if it has been the norm from young. Essentially variety while young (amniotic fluid, mothers milk, food in first 3mths) is proven to reduce pickiness. People think that if the dog turns his nose up at it (or bards) that he doesn't like it. It's very usually a survival thing to avoid new proteins.

And don't listen to the "over dose" on some element rubbish, all you're doing is boosting a nutrient deficient cracker with power ingredients.

If the dog isn't experienced then prob best to do very slowly (2wks) to keep the good carpet, just in case.

So no don't see a problem mixing fresh and dry EXCEPT if you're mixing fresh with a dry containing gluten (wheat/barley/rye) which will block all the absorbtion of the good stuff!

Zapperzy

planetX wrote: »

I'd be interested to hear how the frozen mice go, I've been thinking about that too but I have a feeling they won't be touched if not 'fresh'

Well she got her first defrosted frozen mouse last night and it disappeared without a trace. Searched every corner of the room high and low (small utility room so not so difficult) and it's nowhere to be found so can only presume it was eaten. I gave it to her first and she showed little interest so I left her in the room with it for a while (doesn't like people watching her eat sometimes) and voila gone! It was only a small baby one about 2 inches in length (not including tail), going to try the adult ones next as they'd have a crunchier bone I'd imagine (it's to clean her teeth). Cost €1 in a petshop. She's never caught or eaten a mouse to my knowledge so maybe it's that she's never tasted 'free range mouse' before and doesn't know what she's missing.

PS. If you go into a petshop maybe have a little story made up first that your buying them for someone for their snake, I got the oddest look when I mentioned it was for a cat, and I'l probably be the joke of the shop for a while! Things we do for our pets! :rolleyes:

DogsFirst

You gave it to her inside?!! uhhhhhhh

Probably smell it before find it!! Don't think cats eat the whole thing like dogs, not sure though, would be interested in the result of this!! Cats are more muscle and organ, leaving everything else, a mouse would be like nibbling at a robin red breast roast dinner!!!

The Sweeper

A whole mouse is a fine meal for a cat. They do eat the whole thing, skull and brains and tail and the lot. They'll play with it first though, throwing it around the place before settling in to eat it, so feed it in a closed room where there's no furniture they can throw it under.

Some raw feeders also go for the other options available to reptile owners, like day-old chicks.

My only reservation about feeding day old chicks or baby mice would be a lack of vital amino acids or other elements that are more likely to be present in an adult animal than a baby. There won't be much taurine in a baby mouse or a day old chick, but if your cat will eat a mouse then hopefully he or she will also eat a chicken neck, which is an excellent item to get the essential bone part of the diet into your cat.

The ratio for raw feeding cats is 80:10:5:5; 80% muscle meat to 10% bone to 5% organ meat like kidney and tripe and finally 5% liver. You can go for balance over time - so they don't have to have each item every day.

DogsFirst

They eat the whole thing?!! Thought they were pickier than that. Interesting...

The Sweeper

Some of them are so picky they'll eat absolutely nothing but one flavour of whiskas for their entire lives.

Feral cats will eat the whole mouse or most of the bird, the whole lizard, so on. The raw-feeding proponents for cats actually worked out the 80:10:5:5 ratio by 'reverse engineering' a mouse.

mymo

I can confirm the cat eats the whole mouse, but with rats he sometimes brings me a head:eek:
I have seen my cat pluck a woodpigeon before eating just this weekend, he couldn't eat the whole thing so the little dog had a go too. (no kisses from her for few days).
I do try my best to stop my murdering cat, enclosed garden and not let out at dusk and dawn, etc,(I believe he uses "The Force" to get them to come to him) and feed a mixture to my cats and dogs.
I usually give raw in morning and dry in evening, I also give veggies to my dogs, always cook a bit extra and give it too them, they would actually fight over broccoli but not a meaty bone:rolleyes:, they are doing great on it.