Question for the springer men?

.220 swift

For a springer to go in to heavy cover and hunt it (for woodcock)and not come out until the recall,is it in the dogs breeding or how u train it or a bit of both.

Whats the best way to train a springer pup for this type of heavy hunting so that it will last more than a couple of hours doing this work.

Ive been told to do obidiance training until about a year and a half and then introduce it to game but not to give it a scent until that age?

Im looking for an exceptional hunting springer rather than your average rough shooting springer(ive two of them already)

thanks
220

Shoot2kill

On hunting the heavy cover, I think they either have it or they don't, as the old saying goes "you just cant bait breeding":D

A good way of helping is to run a fresh pup with experienced dogs (which you have). But I have a thread here where I asked about a young pup hunting heavy cover, especially a pup that hunts hard from a young age & the advice is to keep them back from it until they are "of age".

I don't know all about keeping them away from scent until they are that age though, I've always gotten our pups going on rabbit scent from when they are a few months old. I've only ever encountered a problem with this method recently in that the pup is just too hard a hunter for her young age & so I just have to keep a watchful eye on her, keep her back from the heavy cover til she's that bit tougher!

snipe02

.220 swift wrote: »

For a springer to go in to heavy cover and hunt it (for woodcock)and not come out until the recall,is it in the dogs breeding or how u train it or a bit of both.

Whats the best way to train a springer pup for this type of heavy hunting so that it will last more than a couple of hours doing this work.

Ive been told to do obidiance training until about a year and a half and then introduce it to game but not to give it a scent until that age?

Im looking for an exceptional hunting springer rather than your average rough shooting springer(ive two of them already)

thanks
220

...start when your dog is steady to a thrown dummy and will sit and stay ...sit the dog throw the dummy just inside the cover and tell him get in or inside or whatever then increase the distance into the cover then move onto blind retrieves in cover but always make it doable never let your dog fail the dog needs to completely believe that every time you send him into cover there is something in there for him you could do this just once a session along with whatever else your teaching him it works as the dog progresses he will be more than happy to hunt out any cover for you because he believes in you but if you skip the basics the dog will end up doing his own thing and realising he knows better than you

terminator2

rabbits;);)

snipe02

Shoot2kill wrote: »

On hunting the heavy cover, I think they either have it or they don't, as the old saying goes "you just cant bait breeding":D

A good way of helping is to run a fresh pup with experienced dogs (which you have). But I have a thread here where I asked about a young pup hunting heavy cover, especially a pup that hunts hard from a young age & the advice is to keep them back from it until they are "of age".

I don't know all about keeping them away from scent until they are that age though, I've always gotten our pups going on rabbit scent from when they are a few months old. I've only ever encountered a problem with this method recently in that the pup is just too hard a hunter for her young age & so I just have to keep a watchful eye on her, keep her back from the heavy cover til she's that bit tougher!

didnt mean keep your dog away from scent altogether but it seemed you were hunting down game in heavy cover with a young dog you were running the risk of letting the dog get away from you by the sounds of it no cover would be too heavy for your pup but if you skip training with a pup like that you risk spoiling the dog and i say risk might not happen but when you see drive like that in a pup take no chances it could be the special one we all want 3 years to make 3 mins to break :)just my thoughts not saying im right or wrong but just what worked for me

terminator2

Im looking for an exceptional hunting springer rather than your average rough shooting springer(ive two of them already).......................who isnt ?:):)

blackstairsboy

I honestly believe that the best thing to do is hunt a pup from when it is 8 weeks old. The very best springers that I have seen have been in the field since they could walk. I have trained springers the "correct" way and they have not matched up to dogs hunting wise which were allowed to hunt since they were pups. I have gone back to this way with my young bitch she is 7 months old. She followed me around since 8 weeks filling hoppers and checking traps throughout the summer. Put up her first pheasants at 3 months of age from cover and I have shot 3 or 4 birds over her this season already. She will hit cover as good as dogs twice her age.
If you go down this route I have two vital tips. First let the dog do its own thing do not tell it to go to cover do not encourage it to enter cover and do not reward it for hunting out patches of cover. Just walk along quietly without distracting the dog and give it time to hunt. However tempting it might be do not huss her on if you think she is on a scent just leave her to it if the breeding is there she will come good.
Secondly I have recently learned through my own experience that it is not a good thing to run a young springer behind an older one to "get them going". Reason I believe this is the young dog may just follow the older dog like a pet lamb and lose the initiative and self drive needed to make a good hunter. It can be an advantage for an older dog in some cases but I would definitely not run a young springer with an older one until they have become established hunters and will do there own thing and not just follow the older dog.

By training a springer in the field since 8 weeks of age I find you build up a partnership with the dog. The dog knows her job and will carry that out by herself and there is no need for the person to interfere. The way I look at it a "properly" trained springer such as one to field trial standard depends on the handler to constantly direct it and command it. I prefer to have a dog carry out his job without the need for me to interrupt. Now I know some might find it hard to believe but I can go hunting for maybe 2 hours with my young bitch and in that whole time the only commands I will give her is recall which I doubt I do no more than 3 times in the whole 2 hours.

Spunk84

.220 swift wrote: »

For a springer to go in to heavy cover and hunt it (for woodcock)and not come out until the recall,is it in the dogs breeding or how u train it or a bit of both.

Whats the best way to train a springer pup for this type of heavy hunting so that it will last more than a couple of hours doing this work.

Ive been told to do obidiance training until about a year and a half and then introduce it to game but not to give it a scent until that age?

Im looking for an exceptional hunting springer rather than your average rough shooting springer(ive two of them already)

thanks
220

the dog either has it or doesnt:) simple, if you have a good recall bring the dog to a woody area or heavy cover with rabbits or scent and let the dog go mad. The scent of rabbits will drive him to go further in search of the quarry, if your dogs is hesitant then walk into the cover or woody area with it until it knows that its alright to venture in.

Have the dog out in the field running ditches and smelling scent as early as you can, you dont have to bring the gun, just go for a dander. You don't have to go on a mad walk, you can stay in the same field. Then just walk around it and maybe sit down and let the dog venture off to explore by itself to get some confidence.

Look at this way, Olympic athletes train all their lives from the time they are children to be the best in their sport, a dog that sits for 12-18months learning to do the same sit,stay,roll over:rolleyes: and then starts its career is behind in terms of training in their sport:P

Had a pup that was in the field from day one, shot over and retrieved its first pigeon and duck at 5months or so but was told by others that its a outrage he was in the field at that age:rolleyes: Had to let him go to a man in carlow and he has shot over 40+ phessies and a ton of duck in the shannon with him this season,So much so hes going to breed him this year as other members of his gun club who he shoots with want a pup:cool:

EPointer=Birdss

Spunk84 wrote: »

the dog either has it or doesnt:) simple, if you have a good recall bring the dog to a woody area or heavy cover with rabbits or scent and let the dog go mad. The scent of rabbits will drive him to go further in search of the quarry, if your dogs is hesitant then walk into the cover or woody area with it until it knows that its alright to venture in.

Have the dog out in the field running ditches and smelling scent as early as you can, you dont have to bring the gun, just go for a dander. You don't have to go on a mad walk, you can stay in the same field. Then just walk around it and maybe sit down and let the dog venture off to explore by itself to get some confidence.

Look at this way, Olympic athletes train all their lives from the time they are children to be the best in their sport, a dog that sits for 12-18months learning to do the same sit,stay,roll over:rolleyes: and then starts its career is behind in terms of training in their sport:P

Had a pup that was in the field from day one, shot over and retrieved its first pigeon and duck at 5months or so but was told by others that its a outrage he was in the field at that age:rolleyes: Had to let him go to a man in carlow and he has shot over 40+ phessies and a ton of duck in the shannon with him this season,So much so hes going to breed him this year as other members of his gun club who he shoots with want a pup:cool:

Couldn't agree more!
This fasination about robot springers that enter the field has high performing football field or local park athletes & see a pile of briars & stick to the handlers toes, has always confused me!
Bring them everywhere you can, they learn more about you & visa versa from being with you. Don't plaguard them with heavy briars & they learn more. I have always done the basics around feed tmes & enforce it in the field - thats where they use it after all.:rolleyes:

As regards cover - rabbits rabbits & more rabbits.

After that a dog either has it or not - plenty of duds around that just don't cut the musturd. We all can't play county hurling or profesional rugby after all.

nowwerehurlin

''As regards cover - rabbits rabbits & more rabbits.''

couldnt agree more!! .. game ,game and more game !! thats what will make your dog !! i tend to let mine hunt away wild as a pup and then when i get the sit and recall training into them they come round and get used to hunting close. all the ''pros'' let their dogs hunt away wild chasing all round them as a pup then they train him up the dog has plenty drive and hunting in him .. in my opinion woodcock shooting is the best possible sport you can get for your springer ,and if you get a good hard going dog ,you'll meet the world of birds !! best of luck !! would love to hear how you get on with the dog in the future

Ronnie Beck

all about a good thick bit of rabbit cover. nice and thick full of briars and trees and hedges. I normally send the other dog up ahead to clear away the rabbits and then hunt the pup through lines of scent. point and click your fingers to send her into the little tunnels the rabbits make. I give her some retrieves then as a sort of reward when she hammers a bit of cover.

there not always born with it although many are but if you can get them into the bushes at all then eventually the sight of a rabbit flying down a hole in front of them will have them in to investigate next time she's there. eventually it should click that rabbits and birds hang out in thick cover. have the wind always going from the cover to you to encourage them in too.

Ive been told to do obidiance training until about a year and a half and then introduce it to game but not to give it a scent until that age?

You should give it all the scent in the world. they may have meant not to give the chance to encounter/chase game at an early age as this can make them wild and unsteady.

blackstairsboy

Spunk84 wrote: »

Had a pup that was in the field from day one, shot over and retrieved its first pigeon and duck at 5months or so but was told by others that its a outrage he was in the field at that age:rolleyes:

I remember advising you to hold him back Spunk and now I have done a complete u-turn and would recommend nothing but hunting in the field from a young age. Strange how we learn through our experiences and our views can change completely as a result.

Spunk84

blackstairsboy wrote: »

Spunk84 wrote: »

Had a pup that was in the field from day one, shot over and retrieved its first pigeon and duck at 5months or so but was told by others that its a outrage he was in the field at that age:rolleyes:

I remember advising you to hold him back Spunk and now I have done a complete u-turn and would recommend nothing but hunting in the field from a young age. Strange how we learn through our experiences and our views can change completely as a result.

Always said it, life is classroom, everyday u learn something that u didn't know in the previous lesson. I had no problem with people giving me advice when I was training him,actual some of the advice like "ur using to much whistle " worked wonders. I will always step back and look at it from another persons perspective if I'm in a rut.

oats 2

got pup last year an just took her during summer an let her do her thing.wouldnt call her back or encourage her to do anything just tear away wit the other 2 older dogs(agree that it should be pup on its own but in honesty not everyone has the time to run dogs seperatly all the time).anyway she has turned out fairly well.flushing woodcock now an retrieved her first bird last weekend.i just like hunting wit no whistle an watch em work.yeah the pup does go out of range the odd time but f it if they were under your feet you'd ave a lot bigger problem.

also she started out slightly gun shy an i used to be petting her after firing shot cause she'd run back to me.i then just decided to completely ignore her and now she doesnt pay any attention to the bang.she's a light little thing. disappointed wit her size.she never throve well.imo its vital to take extra care wit the diet of a young dog.the average priced nuts just aint enough.they need meat.

great advice on this thread.thanks