Piping insulation to meet building regs

BigGeorge

Any ideas on what level of insulation is needed to hotwater piping to meet building regulations. Have heard mention of 1 pipe diameter but plumber swears this is not the case. Advice appreciated.

DoneDL

Building Regulations 2007
Technical Guidance Document L
Conservation of Fuel and Energy - Dwellings


1.4.4.3 Unless the heat loss from a pipe or duct
carrying hot water contributes to the useful heat
requirement of a room or space, the pipe or duct
should be insulated. The following levels of insulation
should suffice:
(a) pipe or duct insulation meeting the
recommendations of BS 5422: 2001 Methods of
specifying thermal insulating materials for pipes,
ductwork and equipment (in the temperature
range - 400oC to + 700oC), or
(b) insulation with material of such thickness as
gives an equivalent reduction in heat loss as
that achieved using material having a thermal
conductivity at 400oC of 0.035 W/mK and a
thickness equal to the outside diameter of the
pipe, for pipes up to 40 mm diameter, and a
thickness of 40 mm for larger pipes.
1.4.4.4 The hot pipes connected to hot water
storage vessels, including the vent pipe and the
primary flow and return to the heat exchanger,
where fitted, should be insulated, to the standard
outlined in Paragraph 1.4.4.3 above, for at least one
metre from their point of connection.
1.4.4.5 It should be noted that water pipes and
storage vessels in unheated areas will generally need
to be insulated for the purpose of protection against
freezing. Guidance on suitable protection measures is
given in Report BR 262, Thermal insulation: avoiding
risks published by BRE.

heated

Class O Aramaflex is probably the most widely available pipe insulation that will achieve the building regs standards. You need to use 19mm wall thickness Class O Armaflex on 1/2" pipe and 25mm 3/4" and 1" to achieve compliance

JohnnieK

19mm is for external pipework as far as I know according to TIDL

BigGeorge

OK, thats great, armaflex is exactly whats proposed, but theyre trying to get away with 9mm everywhere. What thickness would be needed to meet the regs on 1/2 and 3/4 inch copper piping internally?

Fluffybums

Excuse the cynicism, but since there is no enforcement or independent inspection to ensure compliance, building regulations are not worth the paper they are written on!!

JohnnieK

If it's internal i.e. stud wall joists ect 9mm if the pipes are under a suspended floor or insulated loft 13mm and if external 19mm.

Be prepared because it's expensive stuff.

heinbloed

The building regulations do not demand a minimum thickness of insulant.

The thermal loss of a surface (here:the pipe work) must be calculated, this calculation is part of the energy demand calculation EN 12831.

The outdated British Standard (BS) cited in the outdated building regulations containing the non-binding technical guidelines as posted by DoneDL

Building Regulations 2007
Technical Guidance Document L
Conservation of Fuel and Energy - Dwellings .....

is non-relevant.

BS 5422:2009 replaced BS 5422:2001 some times ago (three years), the Irish technical guidelines (part of the building regulations from 2007) quoting this BS are therefore non-valid as well.

What could be expected.....


As long as there is no performance agreed on between the contract partners the plumber can do as he likes:
Pipe install - pipe installed. Pipe insulation - pipe insulated.

If he causes a damage with his work it is a question for the courts if he and to what amount he is liable.

'Strange' that posters who claim to be plumbers are not firm with the legal questions of their bussiness, don't even know what standards regulate their work.



Question at the OP: what performance (thermal conductivity/loss) was agreed on in the contract?


PS

BS5422:2009 can be purchased for example here:

http://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030210069



About using Armaflex pipe insulation:
Make sure the correct method of workmanship is used, I haven't seen this done in Ireland. Otherwise you pay gold for scrap.

http://www.armacell.com/www/armacell/inetarmacell.nsf/standard/6D8156010E45347C8025774C005A78CB

heated

Refer back to what TGD part L previously posted states "Thermal conductivity 0.035 W/m and thickness equal to pipe OD". Aramaflex is 0.038 W/m @40'C and therfore the thicknesses I stated earlier, i.e. 19mm for 1/2" pipe and 25mm for 3/4" and 1" pipe are required to comply with standards for all internal pipes which do not contribute to the useful heat requirement of a room or space.

heated

TGD part L 2011 refers to BS 5422: 2009

JohnnieK

While we are on the subject, does anyone know where apart from TIDL I can purchase Armaflex? It costs a fortune as it is and the 19mm stuff is unreal.

Priced a job in Cabra and lost out to the price of the armaflex on my quote:rolleyes:.

slavetothegrind

try hevac johnny,

http://www.hevac.ie/products-price-lists.php

second domestic price list page 72, there is a trade discount too

don't know if they are cheaper but sure have a look!

BigGeorge

Sorry to dredge this thread back up...but it all appears to depend on what ' useful heat' means.
For example : So if the pipe is running through the ceiling at ground floor level in a hall...& it looses heat all year round into the hall area - is this then useful heat? even though the hall may have a thermostat for proper heating control? I can how this heat lose could be useful at times, but surely not when I've gone to the expense of putting in controllers to reduce energy demand to specific times or temperatures?

Any advice - in particular past experience battling this question with plumbers - really appreciated

heated

If your hallway is part of a seperate zone, then when the zone valve is closed no heat is flowing through the pipes in that zone and therefore no heat loss.

BigGeorge

Sorry - meant to say I'm talking about DHW pipes that are running through the building with a low level of insulation on them .

The heating system has loads of controls & is quite efficient. But then I have this DHW Loop which is just constantly loosing heat into the building - whether I want it or not - could this uncontrolled loss of heat from the DHW be called useful heat under the building regs...& hence a lower level of insulation be OK, OR is a full pipe diameter required as I dont want the heat loss from the DHW?

heated

In my opinion the heat loss from your DHW loop is not 'useful heat', especially as you have a DHW requirement year round. The heat loss from a closed loop DHW system could be considerable without proper insulation.
My understanding is that any 'useful heat' would be taken into consideration when determining the the heat requirement for the area concerened, i.e. the rads or other heat emitters would be undersized by that ammount.
The 2011 Part L TGD is clear on this, hot water pipes or ducts incorporated into the wall, floor or roof of a building and any hot water pipes or ducts that do not contribute to the useful heat requirement of the building should be insulated and that insulation should conform to BS 5422: 2009.