To stop a dog barking, right or wrong?

player101

I saw an add for a dog collar which trains your dog not to bark through a series of beeps escilating up to a mild shock? I personally would never use anything like this on any animal but I want to get other peoples opinions wetaher this is right or wrong and the reasons behind it, reason being is that I have a JRT who doesnt stop barking and I want to try train him to stop as my landlord has recieved complaints about it

"THE MOST HUMANE ANTI-BARKING COLLAR YOU CAN BUY. ACTUALLY TRAINS YOUR DOG TO STOP EXCESS BARKING BY FIRST GIVING A PAINLESS SERIES OF BEEPS. IF THE DOG PERSISTS, THE TONE GETS HIGHER ACCOMPANIED BY A SHOCK UNTIL THE BARKING STOPS. USUALLY, THE DOG WILL ONLY RECEIVE 1-2 SHOCKS BEFORE HE LEARNS TO STOP.

WITH THIS COLLAR THE DOG QUICKLY UNDERSTANDS WHAT IS HAPPENING AND IS NOT SIMPLY RECEIVING A SHOCK WITH NO UNDERSTANDING LIKE MOST OTHER'S.

THIS IS A FAR BETTER COLLAR THAN ANY OTHER ON THE MARKET TO DATE. USES A VOICE RECOGNITION FEATURE THAT RECORDS YOUR DOGS UNIQUE BARK TO MINIMISE FALSE TRIGGERING.

WORKS ON DOGS UP TO 150 LBS.

SIMPLE TO USE- JUST INSERT BATTERY SUPPLIED AND IT WORKS AUTOMATICALLY.

DOG BARKING IS A HUGE PROBLEM AND OFTEN LEADS TO PEOPLE HAVING TO GET RID OF THEIR DOGS DUE TO NEIGHBOUR'S COMPLAINING TO THE COUNCIL ETC.

THIS WAY YOU CAN CONTROL IT EASILY AND WITH MINIMUM DISCOMFORT TO YOUR DOG.

25 EUROS INC POSTAGE. THESE ARE 50+ EUROS IN SHOPS."

kildare.17hmr

I use shock collars and rate them highly. Currently using a remote collar on my pointer which iv only had to shock him with a couple of times as the beep is suficient to correct any misbehavour. How often do you walk the dog or give him exersize? This can fix alot of problems. Next door have a jack russel thats left out the back all day and all he does is jump up at the wall barkin at my dogs

Zulu

I use the Innotek Citronella Spray Collar.
Amazon link

It's humane, and it works brilliantly. And you don't have to elecrocute your dogs throat!

deeksofdoom

Throwing a bucket of cold water over the dog every time it starts barking works equally well.

player101

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

How often do you walk the dog or give him exersize?

prob twice a day, the whole family use him as part of their excercise routine, poor things gets the hind legs walked off him when my mam brings him out. He really only barks when people approach the front door/ walk in front of the house/ go anywhere near the house so all the time

andreac

Shock collars are cruel and unnecessary, hence the name "Shock", end of. Anyone who uses them are inflicting pain on their pets.

Find out why your dog is barking and work on it through training. There has to be a reason hes doing it.

Zulu

If you are present when the barking is happening, then can I suggest a water pistol. When the dog barks, you squirt it in the face.
This worked perfectly for me. (I only need the citronella collar now for when I'm not there)

DBB

There are a lot of abusive corrections being advocated here, and all of them are addressing the symptoms, not the cause. It's lazy dog training.
The dog is barking for a reason. If you can isolate that reason, then you can ethically address the underlying cause without potentially affecting your dog's welfare, without having to resort to shocking, squirting, throwing buckets of water on, or spraying citronella up an exquisitely sensitive nose.

boodee

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Throwing a bucket of cold water over the dog every time it starts barking works equally well.

This can lead to the dog having a fear of water and getting a phobia of things being thrown at him. Your jrt could bite someone like a child if they accidently throw water at the dog....I saw this happen.

If dog is barking only when there is someone approaching/at the door then he is protecting HIS house. You need to train him to stop and let him know he's not the boss.

LucyBliss

Terriers can be very 'busy' dogs and if they're not sniffing out potential mischief in the garden, they're keeping one ear out for anything strange going on. If they're alone in the house, which obviously they have to be at some point, strange noises will set them off. The doorbell will set them off. It's not harm to have a barking dog in the house because they can scare off potential intruders. The trick is teaching them to calm down again quickly.

This can be done by re-directing them when they bark. Tell them to find the toy or throw a treat in the opposite direction and get them to seek it out, because with some dogs telling them to zip it will work fantastically. But other dogs see the barking as their job and you have to give them another job or you're just making yourself mad.

If he's barking when you're gone, then I suggest leaving the TV or radio up loud enough that it will provide a bit of background noise for him. It's also good to settle them before you leave. Tell them to go to their bed, give them a gentle rub, say something like "good dog, bedtime, good dog", kind of thing and they get the idea that it's quiet time. A frozen kong with peanut butter will keep them occupied too. Seriously, I have a dog who would be quite vocal when it comes to people passing or odd noises but give him a kong with peanut butter and when he hears a noise, he looks up, remembers he has something tasty and doesn't bother barking.

I have to agree with DBB about shock collars. There are better ways to help your dog stop barking.

Vince32

regarding barking when the doorbell rings / guests.

I have seen a method on YT with before and after clips, and it looked pretty effective.

The guy put the dog on it's leash, and hung the strap over a door handle, so the dog had some range but couldn't charge at the door.
Then he had a pal ring the bell and the dog went nuts charging and barking, after the initial surge was finished, the chap told the dog to sit / stay, and went to open the front door. If the dog moved, he corrected it by putting it back in sit / stay.
After a few times, the dog realised it wasn't going to win this one, and was quite as a lamb.
I'm sure this method takes more than a few attempts, but it looked effective and was free info on YT.
So perhaps try something like that before resorting to a shock collar, all it will cost is time.

Zulu

DBB wrote: »

The dog is barking for a reason. If you can isolate that reason, then you can ethically address the underlying cause without potentially affecting your dog's welfare,

hummm black & white ideal worlds are fantastic and all...


...meanwhile back in the real world.

or spraying citronella up an exquisitely sensitive nose.

For the record, the citronella spray points out from underneath the head, and not up an exquisitely sensitive nose as you appear to be suggesting.

Whispered

OP if it happens when someone knocks on your door then I think the best thing to do is to work on teaching your dog manners around the door.

I wouldn't use anything designed to shock, hurt or cause my dogs discomfort. It's not necessary with proper training. Granted it might take a bit longer, but you don't run the risk of damaging your bond with the dog, or giving the dog a phobia or adverse reaction to something.

Say for example you have a door barker, you put on a shock or a citronella collar, the door bell rings, the dog barks and gets his shock. It happens again and again - isn't it likely the dog begins to associate the doorbell and visitors with the unpleasant experience.

My dogs get very excited when people call, they don't bark, but they do trot around the room like a pair of show ponies, wiggle up to guests and shove slobbery toys at them. I would hate to see them react badly to visitors so I simply stop the behaviour as it happens, and when they are calm I allow them see the visitor. They don't associate visitors or the door bell with bad things, they're supposed to go sit quietly in bed, but sometimes the excitement gets the better of them depending on the visitor!

I think the method Vince posted sounds like it would work well.

DBB

Zulu wrote: »

or spraying citronella up an exquisitely sensitive nose.

For the record, the citronella spray points out from underneath the head, and not up an exquisitely sensitive nose as you appear to be suggesting.

So, can you explain to me then, what is the rationale behind the spray containing citronella? Are you suggesting it's not designed to cause an aversive consequence of citronella entering the dog's nose?
I am well aware of how they work and how they're made, but am waiting with bated breath for an explanation which logically argues against spray collars being aversive. And indeed, I await justification for the use of aversive equipment given the availability of ethical, non-aversive training.
I have asked this time and time again on this forum for an adequate justification for use of various aversive equipment, and all of my pleas have been categorically ignored by those who use aversive gear yet insist on advising such gear as an acceptable way to stop problem behaviours. Perhaps you can buck that trend?

As for your other comments about the real world, I have two observations.
1. There really is no need to be so smartarsed in your riposte. It doesn't help your argument.
And
2. I train dogs in the real world. And that includes addressing behavioural problems such as excessive barking. So, given that I've treated many, many dogs for this problem by addressing the underlying cause of the barking, without ever once resorting to punishing the symptoms, means that yes, I am indeed working in the real world, and advising modification of problem behaviours in the real world, ethically, and without having to justify the lazy use of aversion corrections.
As are hundreds of other ethical behaviourists and trainers the world over.

Discodog

DBB wrote: »

It's lazy dog training.

Absolutely. Everyone wants an easy way out rather than interacting with & learning about their dog. But punishing a dog for being a dog is bonkers. Mine love the occasional play bark & even a social howl with me:D

I want my dogs to bark with excitement & enjoy having fun & being dogs. My neighbours tell me that they never hear a sound out them when I am out but maybe that's because they have had a good walk first. I am also happy for them to bark if they sense danger or an intruder. It's almost a case of teaching them when to bark rather than trying to stop them.

By the way spray some citronella up your own nose & then imagine what it feels like to a dog whose sense of smell is many times more sensitive. What happens if another noise triggers the collar - like another dog barking ? Your dog gets punished & has no idea why.

littlebug

DBB, doorbell reaction aside what would you suggest for a dog that barks at everything and everyone passing the house, probably normal alert type behaviour which e.g. in an estate setting with a lot of passing traffic can get bothersome. sounds like similar for the OP?


Our dog was really bad for this at the start. Our (possibly misguided) solution was simply to keep her down from the windowsill so she doesn't see people It only works to an extent because the kids don't enforce it so she only stays down when I'm in the room :rolleyes: Barking is much reduced though there are still some triggers whether she can see them or not.

DBB

littlebug wrote: »

DBB, doorbell reaction aside what would you suggest for a dog that barks at everything and everyone passing the house, probably normal alert type behaviour which e.g. in an estate setting with a lot of passing traffic can get bothersome. sounds like similar for the OP?


Our dog was really bad for this at the start. Our (possibly misguided) solution was simply to keep her down from the windowsill so she doesn't see people It only works to an extent because the kids don't enforce it so she only stays down when I'm in the room :rolleyes: Barking is much reduced though there are still some triggers whether she can see them or not.

Hi littlebug,
I've pm'd you re sending you some info by email.
You're not off the mark by controlling her access to seeing outside, but you also need to back it up with a few more management techniques, and some training to establish a new response when she sees people outside.
It takes a bit of time and practise, as does all good training, but it's a great way to really understand your pooch and watch for those lovely lightbulb moments when she realises "aha! Now I know what you want"!

mphalo1

my dog was a house dog for a year but now he is being put out for lots of reasons,,,,,he has an insulated kennel with a dog flapdoor on it also a bone placed inside but wont shut the **** up barking and barking and howling and crying to get back in any ideas

DBB

mphalo1 wrote: »

my dog was a house dog for a year but now he is being put out for lots of reasons,,,,,he has an insulated kennel with a dog flapdoor on it also a bone placed inside but wont shut the **** up barking and barking and howling and crying to get back in any ideas

Bring him back in ;-)

andreac

Hes obv lonely and bored all by himself outside so i dont blame him for barking, just bring the poor dog in :rolleyes:

coffee_cake

let the poor dog back in ffs

Zulu

At the risk of getting into something i don't want, I'll answer your response

DBB wrote: »

So, can you explain to me then, what is the rationale behind the spray containing citronella?

There's a subtle difference here you are missing. I would hazard, on purpose.
It does NOT spray "citronella up an exquisitely sensitive nose" as you stated.

If you aren't clear of the difference, consider air freshner in the human world: you spray it into the room & you can smell it. There is subtle, yet markable difference between that and spraying it up your nose. :rolleyes:

Are you suggesting it's not designed to cause an aversive consequence of citronella entering the dog's nose?

Are you attempting to create a position for me for which to rage against that I never suggested?

I am well aware of how they work and how they're made

Are you, then why do I find myself explaining it to you?

but am waiting with bated breath for an explanation which logically argues against spray collars being aversive

You mean the position you created for me? Sadly you'll need to keep waiting.

1. There really is no need to be so smartarsed in your riposte. It doesn't help your argument.

Indeed, but the same doesn't extend to you, no? A case of do what I say, not what I do, is it??

2. I train dogs in the real world. And that includes addressing behavioural problems such as excessive barking. So, given that I've treated many, many dogs for this problem by addressing the underlying cause of the barking,

...in the real world, sometimes, just sometimes, the underlying problem may be known but unable to be addressed. Of course you'd know this as a dog trainer, addressing behavioural problems.

Discodog

Zulu wrote: »

It does NOT spray "citronella up an exquisitely sensitive nose" as you stated.

If you aren't clear of the difference, consider air freshner in the human world: you spray it into the room & you can smell it. There is subtle, yet markable difference between that and spraying it up your nose. :rolleyes:
.

From the product description:

"Each time he barks, the collar releases a harmless citronella spray right in front of his snout."

DBB

I'm clearly missing something alright. Please explain to me... The collar bearing the container with the citronella spray is located on the dog's neck, yes? When the dog barks, the spray is directed forwards in a plume just under the dog's nose, yes? So where does it go now?
As the plume of citronella is specifically designed to cause an aversive scent experience to the dog, I'm thinking it goes up his nose, yes? Which, and I don't think anyone can deny this, is an exquisitely sensitive body part. Yes?

Likewise, and this is one of the questions I asked which you haven't answered (indeed, you didn't answer any of my questions, regrettably), the spray is citronella, yes? Citronella is a sharp scent, uncomfortable to our noses, so presumably uncomfortable to a dog's too (i'm thinking that as their sense of smell is vastly better than ours, that the aversive experience is increased). So, if spraying citronella isn't aversive to the dog's exquisitely sensitive nose, why isn't there just water in the box on the collar?

I asked you a number of things, and you have, I regret, wriggled out of answering or given evasive answers, or simply just tried to patronize me... But that's often what people do when they're struggling to argue their point. The reason I put the questions to you is because you originally contended that a citronella spray collar is humane! Just because it says it on the box doesn't mean it's true!
As for using these things when nothing else has worked, well, I haven't yet had to resort to using a citronella or shock collar to reduce nuisance barking... But that might be because of the humane, and highly effective methods of training I and my colleagues around the world use. If I did have to use gear to help me stop a dog barking, there are far more humane options than spraying citronella under their nose (again, I'm assuming it does what it's designed to do here and go up the dog's nose). In my experience, when owners use aversive collars but say they've "tried everything else", they haven't really.
That's why I refer to using them as lazy training.

Zulu

Discodog wrote: »

From the product description:

"Each time he barks, the collar releases a harmless citronella spray right in front of his snout."

...and not "Each time he barks, the collar releases a harmless citronella spray right in front of up his snout."

Really, it's not that difficult.

DBB wrote: »

I asked you a number of things, and you have, I regret, wriggled out of answering or given evasive answers

No, you have attempted to create a position for me, with which to argue against. Frankly I've no interest in assuming this role for you. If that's "wriggling" out of answering, so be it. For you own interest, if you wish to have someone engage in a discussion with you, do not presuppose their position.

or simply just tried to patronize me...

You're a fantastic person to do exactly what you crib about, namely patronize.

But that's often what people do when they're struggling to argue their point.

I've made my point succinctly: the collar does NOT spray citronella UP the dogs nose as you incorrectly stated. ...but perhaps you are discussing yourself here?

DBB

Zulu,
I'm clearly missing the point.
What's the difference between spraying something up the nose, and creating a plume right in front of said nose, from which the dog can't escape? The dog gets a highly concentrated blast of citronella up the nose either way, so I suggest the difference between the two methods of delivery is semantics.
The whole point is that citronella spray up or in front of a dog's exquisitely sensitive nose is aversive, and not a "humane" alternative to shock collars as you contended.
Me? Patronizing? I knew you'd accuse me so, but I suggest that you're confusing being patronized, with having your post that spray collars are "humane" challenged. I await your considered justification that spray collars are humane, rather than brushing off my challenging your contention.
As I said before, every single time somebody comes on here advising the use of spray collars, shock collars, choke chains etc, and I ask them to justify their use given the availability of more humane methods, I'm met with silence or brush offs.

Zulu

DBB wrote: »

What's the difference between spraying something up the nose, and creating a plume right in front of said nose

Well, you've ignored my previous explanation so I suggest you could try and find out yourself with air freshener, but be careful! You'll be fine spraying it in front of you, but when you come to spraying it up your nose you may want to have paramedics present.

from which the dog can't escape?

The dog can escape: the dog simply walks away.

The dog gets a highly concentrated blast of citronella up the nose either way

This is a lie.

player101

thanks for all of the great advice from everyone, i think its just going to be a case of further training as its just an excitement bark as apposed to get off my Land you dirty postman! So bit more TLC etc im sure he will get over it.

star-pants

Guys I'll ask that if you wish to debate the finer points of collars you take it to PM so as not to keep dragging this thread off-topic and making it difficult for the OP to find any advice in it.