Web designers must be busy....

HobbyMan

On Monday I send emails to 8 web designers for quotes as I want to have my own basic website. So far I have only received 2 quotes for the work. Perhaps most of the quotation work gets done over the weekend ?

DaveNoCheese

I remember sending off an email looking for a quote last year, got an email two days later and a phone call on the third to see if I had any follow up questions.

If this was due to lack of work or good customer service, I'm not sure.

dahayeser

Its a funny business Web Design and Development. It is hard to made a fulltime living from it due to the fact that there are so many at it and it is a difficult one for clients to decipher the good from the bad! Therefore many like myself have fulltime jobs and are just doing the web work on the side and mightnt get to pricing jobs until the weekend. There is a bit of an up turn in it though, especially now with growing popularity of mobile internet.

Placebo

i've sent email to around 3-4 people looking for work here, none of them got back to me. Anyway theres never a fix quote, good designers/developer will never always charge the same, it always boils down to the exact requirements, even if its a static website.

Pixelcraft

Most designers are busy at this time of year, however everyone deserves a reply. Were you clear in what you need in a website, or was it a very generalised inquiry? Do you mind posting up and example of your email here?

tramoreman

they should of replyed by now that is bad for reputation. did you ever try doing it yourself there is a program called wordpress its simple to use. just as a matter of intrerest what is the website for

HobbyMan

This is the first mail that I send. I subsequently added a few other bits as I went along but the general gist is there:

Hi Guys,

I found ye on the Promote your Business page on Boards.ie.

I am thinking of setting up my own website.

Initially it will be simple in design and content as I want to fund it through the sale of my monthly stock market newsletter.

The idea I have is this:

Have two pages: one being a blog, I also wanted a forum but that can come later as its too much work now, the other page being an About Me page where I can list that I am a stockbroker/equity analyst, give individual tution, give workshops, have a newsletter and provide a link to my articles etc.

I have a blog on WordPress so perhaps my site can just be one page for the moment.

My colour scheme would be a white background, black writing with red underlining/borders much like my business card which I can send to you.

The target market would be beginner & intermediate investors of every age but mostly those aged 30+ and especially farmers.

I envision a T page with the name Market Swings Stock Market Education in the top of the T with the vertical line being the blog/about me page. The borders can then be used for advertising.

Could you please provide a rough cost for the development for such a site ?

Also if you have any ideas I'd love to hear them.

Regards,

Pixelcraft

Just a few quick thoughts:

To me it reads like you're still thinking about the idea, there's no clear purpose.

If you're hiring a designer, don't be dictating colour schemes - that's their job, otherwise you're wasting your money.

Your target market could do with refinement - you've really listed every investor!

There's far too little detail to put together a proposal or estimate.

Again, everyone deserves a reply, but to me this isn't ready to approach a designer with.

Most designers will have a brief questionnaire they can send which may focus your thinking and allow you to prepare something more substantial.

It's also a good idea to have an idea of budget, as design is time & experience based if you're on a different scale than what a designer's used to it's better to be upfront than waste both your time.

Hope that helps

tricky D

You sent me a PM 2 weeks ago with something along those lines - similar but quite different in some aspects. However it was unclear whether you were looking for a quote or free advice, the latter looking more likely as quotes or costs were not mentioned at all. It was also 2 months after your initial PM. I did a bit of searching and saw your FB page and WP pages. The initial solution I was thinking about was along WP lines but with more attention to the marketing aspects and at a better domain. Nevertheless to be honest, I was left kind of head scratching as to what kind of response you were looking for, so ultimately didn't.

Pixelcraft also mentions a few other things which raised flags.

tramoreman

you email was unclear more detail id say is needed
example what might be better
What you could do is instead of a blog on wordpress put a website in wordpress instead. Or set up a twitter account and have it for your blog and you can have a link to twitter for the blog. The newsletter you want to sell you could have a link to it on the first page and will you be doing this through paypal for example. You might be better off with min of three pages at least id probably have A menu up on top with home, about ,services, forum, contact for example
You need to think about it more i dont think a two page website will work

BarackPyjama

Writing a proper brief would be a good start. It takes time, and therefore costs money, to write a proposal. Show a designer that you're serious about your business and they'll take you more seriously. If I received an email like the above, it would be met with a very brief 'thanks but no thanks' type email.

TsuDhoNimh

I found ye on the Promote your Business page on Boards.ie. - Are they recent posts? Are the members in question still active in the business?

I am thinking of setting up my own website. - Small red flag. Thinking and looking to are two very different things.

Initially it will be simple in design and content as I want to fund it through the sale of my monthly stock market newsletter. - Big red flag. This sounds like you sending ad-hoc pieces of work over an extended time frame. Designers/developers have multiple clients with tight deadlines to meet. Form a coherent project, even if it's a small scale one to begin with, and you'll get a much better response.

Have two pages: one being a blog, I also wanted a forum but that can come later as its too much work now, the other page being an About Me page where I can list that I am a stockbroker/equity analyst, give individual tution, give workshops, have a newsletter and provide a link to my articles etc. - This is a slightly flawed way of looking at how to develop your online presence. As Tricky already correctly alluded to in his response, a developer will need to sit with you and hammer out exactly what you require (giving their expert knowledge on what will perform best for you). Combine this with the fact that it's such an open-ended scope and it's becoming a white elephant for them to invest time into giving a quote. One quotes for what you need and one quotes for what they think you've requested and the two quotes will differ in orders of magnitude.

I have a blog on WordPress so perhaps my site can just be one page for the moment. - Not a good idea. You want to transfer your existing wordpress blog activity to the new domain/site.

Could you please provide a rough cost for the development for such a site ? - Not really. There are too many elements to the quote request that need rethinking and changing to nail down the scope. I'd suggest going back to the drawing board a little in terms of what you require and doing up a more detailed scoping of the actual requirements.

tramoreman

totally agree with above post he should also look at similar web pages or templates also and research his idea more properly

p

HobbyMan wrote: »

On Monday I send emails to 8 web designers for quotes as I want to have my own basic website. So far I have only received 2 quotes for the work. Perhaps most of the quotation work gets done over the weekend ?

As people have said, the web business is pretty busy these days. There's a noticeable difference between people who contact you through a referral and have a budget and brief ready to go, and people who are still 'window shopping'. People should always reply, but you'll definitely get better responses if you look more serious. It might seem strange that you're in competition with others to pay people, but that's the way it is at the moment.

dahayeser wrote: »

Its a funny business Web Design and Development. It is hard to made a fulltime living from it due to the fact that there are so many at it and it is a difficult one for clients to decipher the good from the bad! Therefore many like myself have fulltime jobs and are just doing the web work on the side and mightnt get to pricing jobs until the weekend. There is a bit of an up turn in it though, especially now with growing popularity of mobile internet.

Not true at all. Market is healthy, and growing slowly, plenty of people making decent money working at web design & dev full time or freelance.

TsuDhoNimh

p wrote: »

Not true at all. Market is healthy, and growing slowly, plenty of people making decent money working at web design & dev full time or freelance.

Completely agree (I'm not a designer/dev btw).

Finding a good web dev/designer, like gold dust, with openings to take on projects is the challenge.

BarackPyjama

Kaylabear wrote: »

I had a site built by Torcwebdesign.ie and was very happy. I choose them as they had some good testimonials on their website.

Must say i was glad i tried them.

Interesting second post. Their work's crap by the way.

Kaylabear

I only joined the board to ask about trailers..... Sorry for breathing. Ill be out of here again.

BarackPyjama

That's cool. Just thought I'd point it out like.

Kaylabear

BarackPyjama wrote: »

Writing a proper brief would be a good start. It takes time, and therefore costs money, to write a proposal. Show a designer that you're serious about your business and they'll take you more seriously. If I received an email like the above, it would be met with a very brief 'thanks but no thanks' type email.

I see now why you replied. Because you are a web designer. Im trying to start using this but its people like you that would turn new people off using it...... My previous post removed.

BarackPyjama

Kaylabear wrote: »

I see now why you replied. Because you are a web designer. Im trying to start using this but its people like you that would turn new people off using it...... My previous post removed.

Hope all is well at Torc Web Design.

bobbytables

In summary...

Words like "Small", "Basic", "Simple", "Quick", & sentences that start with "I just..." are usually red flags. It all boils down to people wanting a professional job on a shoestring.

My advice to anyone looking for a website is...if you don't understand the difference between what can be bought for small money & what costs significantly more right now; you need to more research, not in to providers but how things can go wrong.

Project specification is the first port of call. An accurate quote cannot realistcally be offered until the provider knows how long the project will take. This cannot be known until the spec. is clearly defined. Most people are not used to teasing out requirements & drafting specifications, so it's an extremely common assumption that a brief overview is sufficient. Specification can take considerable time, so if a provider believes that a potential client is going to have far fetched expectations even at that phase of the project then it may be strategic for them to stay clear. Time is money, & nobody, client or provider can afford to invest considerable time establishing trust.

A provider wants a client to understand their justification for each & every quote. If a client thinks a quote is too high, ask why? Don't assume you can get the exact same thing down the road for next to nothing. The provider down the road has bills to pay also, so it's more likely you don't understand the shortcuts they are making in particular areas.

So my advice is offered to you on the basis that I've nothing to gain or lose (apart from the time it took to post this). OP I wish you every success, but strongly recommend you put more work in to the requirements phase of your project, not just what you need from a web agency, but also from yourself & other 3rd parties. It's a very risky endeavour to start project development at this stage for everyone concerned.

BostonB

The suggestion seems to be that the OP is being ignored because he didn't know how to write a proper brief for the project. That seems a bit unprofessional to me, at least they could send a quick reply to say they got the mail, they are or are not interested, and more information if they needed, it, or an estimate when they'll reply if busy.

bobbytables

BostonB wrote: »

The suggestion seems to be that the OP is being ignored because he didn't know how to write a proper brief for the project. That seems a bit unprofessional to me, at least they could send a quick reply to say they got the mail, they are or are not interested, and more information if they needed, it, or an estimate when they'll reply if busy.

On that issue alone, I agree that some professional courtesy is in order.

However where it becomes troublesome is when a client refuses to understand or accept that there may be more to the process than they currently expect or assume in order to get a solid ROI. That is assuming of course the provider doesn't just nod along with them and get away with focusing only on the areas that the client is currently aware of. In this situation if the client has an inflated ego as is, price along with being told "they're always right" sells.

In the current economic climate, "free" or "cheap" has a tremendous power to overrule what would otherwise be a more in-depth decision. The reality is that money is extremely tight for startups and small businesses right now. Every established business that caters for these markets knows this. This is why there are so many web agencies and freelancers out there cropping up offering next to nothing prices, because "price" right now is the most important factor. When this happens corners will be cut which unfortunately will include time spent communicating with or evaluating customers amongst many other areas, many of which the client won't know about until something goes wrong later.

Not all customers however will assess providers on the basis of price alone. Experience with any product or service over time will eventually expose their limitations, regardless of price. Technology is an interesting area however. Lots of people engage with technology on a daily basis, but an understanding of the in's & out's of it and the impact this can have on business varies massively. So naturally there is confusion.

It is entirely possible in this business for a provider to spend as much money pursuing a project than a project is actually worth by the time it starts. I don't believe for 2 seconds that even a client would expect that sort of thing to fly, especially when they've gone to the trouble of supporting a local business, but unfortunately it can very easily happen.

For a provider, it's about weighing up the opportunity cost as quickly as possible, because no 2 customers will be alike. So this might include a stronger analyses of a customer's expectation & reaching a conclusion at a much earlier stage than before.

All that considered, "I'm sorry we're currently not in a position to take on this project" does take 2 seconds.

BostonB

A simple auto responder on the email would be something.

bobbytables

BostonB wrote: »

A simple auto responder on the email would be something.

Hmmmm....or perhaps....an auto lead qualifier.

Runs out to find a post doc well versed in Machine Learning.

Trojan

Very good post there, little bobby.

I believe that the reason the OP didn't get many of these "common courtesy" replies is because the query was complex (not the project, the query), and complex queries by their nature encourage procrastination. "I'll reply to that guy later when I've time to figure out what he's looking for" - that type thing.

The link between procrastination and complexity

If our conscious “working memory” can hold between 5 and 9 items, when we are presented with a problem that is more complex than we are able to understand (or manage), either because of the many factors of the problem itself, OR, because, at that moment in time, we simply don’t have the required “capacity”…this could easily result in procrastination…at very least!

BostonB

Just a though... set up a auto response with perhaps a link to a online template for getting all the information required for a quote, and even some guidelines on completing it. If thats the business you're in.

Trojan

BostonB wrote: »

Just a though... set up a auto response with perhaps a link to a online template for getting all the information required for a quote, and even some guidelines on completing it. If thats the business you're in.

http://www.logon.ie/quote

There's a fine line, though, in requesting a lot of information up front - the provider asking the prospect for too much information is just as likely to cause paralysis as is the prospect sending on a complex query.

HobbyMan

Wow. Thanks for all the discussion everyone. For some reason I didn't receive your posts in my email and therefore thought there were no replies. Plus it's been a while since I logged on the Boards.

Anyhow I am now wiser when it comes to designing a webpage. Many thanks for all your posts as well as the many PM's I received.

Someone is currently working on the site and I will present it when it is finished so that you can all share your views.

Thanks again. :O)