"A" Rated window sensors

crosshair1

Hi,
I could do with finding out how to deal with magnetic sensors or combined inertia.magnetic when the windows are a large profile pvc.
The closest conventional sensor & magnet could be placed would be about 25mm due to a radius on the edge of the profile.
Is there micro sensors available for fitting, i dont mind having the inertia separate.
I'd also like to have switches on each window just to be able to know that all are closed when arming.
Thanks

altor

crosshair1 wrote: »

Hi,
I could do with finding out how to deal with magnetic sensors or combined inertia.magnetic when the windows are a large profile pvc.
The closest conventional sensor & magnet could be placed would be about 25mm due to a radius on the edge of the profile.
Is there micro sensors available for fitting, i dont mind having the inertia separate.
I'd also like to have switches on each window just to be able to know that all are closed when arming.
Thanks

Any picture of the window and cable location ?

KoolKid

Would fitting a standard inertia & drilling the PVC & fishing the cables to the contacts be an option.
Astec had some nice slimline MCs. I don't know whether HKC are still supplying these or not.

crosshair1

I wouldnt have any problem drilling the pvc to fit the magnetics, just wasnt aware of whats on the market.
I've attached a sketch showing the "rough" details as I dont have a pic at hand

altor

crosshair1 wrote: »

I wouldnt have any problem drilling the pvc to fit the magnetics, just wasnt aware of whats on the market.
I've attached a sketch showing the "rough" details as I dont have a pic at hand

An inertia/contact needs to be put on the opening side of the window where the handle is, about 2 inches from the top. Magnet on moving part of window. If there is another cable at the other opening then install either a contact or another inertia/contact to cover this if the window has a solid frame.

crosshair1

altor wrote: »

An inertia/contact needs to be put on the opening side of the window where the handle is, about 2 inches from the top. Magnet on moving part of window. If there is another cable at the other opening then install either a contact or another inertia/contact to cover this if the window has a solid frame.

This I understand and I have the wiring for but I thought that the magnet/reed would have to be closer than 25mm to close the circuit, and with the profile i have I cant do that without going onto the curved part. I havent tested a magentic sensor for distance though.

altor

crosshair1 wrote: »

This I understand and I have the wiring for but I thought that the magnet/reed would have to be closer than 25mm to close the circuit, and with the profile i have I cant do that without going onto the curved part. I havent tested a magentic sensor for distance though.

Always test before fitting. If you did have a problem you could fit a inertia sensor and a separate contact that will be a better fit for the curved part.

Jnealon

KoolKid wrote: »

Would fitting a standard inertia & drilling the PVC & fishing the cables to the contacts be an option.
Astec had some nice slimline MCs. I don't know whether HKC are still supplying these or not.

+1 do this all the time

crosshair1

Ok so I got a hkc combined sensor today and tried it but had no luck,
its just on the border of being switched which isnt good enough.
Pic shows the details

Has anyone fitted a stronger magnet, maybe even inset into the frame that closes behind the sensor

or any other ideas
Thanks

Jnealon

The astec one might work or space permitting you could fit a miniature contact inside the frame

KoolKid

If you had an Astec magnet from their system contact it should work. They are that bit stronger.

altor

crosshair1 wrote: »

Ok so I got a hkc combined sensor today and tried it but had no luck,
its just on the border of being switched which isnt good enough.
Pic shows the details

Has anyone fitted a stronger magnet, maybe even inset into the frame that closes behind the sensor

or any other ideas
Thanks

From your picture you have two options. Leave the sensor as is and connect a wired contact out of it to cover the window opening. Another option is to move the sensor over closer to the magnet. The sensor you are using has the option of switching the reed to either side, just be careful not to damage the reed switch. Should be no problem on this window.

crosshair1

Thank for the ideas,
I'll try get my hands on the astec magnet, I've also ordered some neodymiums and will see how they work,
If at all possible I want to avoid having to go into the frame itself with wiring because I have 17 openings and that would be a significant amount of extra work.

altor

crosshair1 wrote: »

Thank for the ideas,
I'll try get my hands on the astec magnet, I've also ordered some neodymiums and will see how they work,
If at all possible I want to avoid having to go into the frame itself with wiring because I have 17 openings and that would be a significant amount of extra work.

Your welcome, you only need to move the sensor over 10mm for it to work as it should.

Jnealon

altor wrote: »

Your welcome, you only need to move the sensor over 10mm for it to work as it should.

Correct me if I have taken this up wrong but moving the sensor over by 10mm will leave the sensor over hanging the curved part of the frame. Apart from looking very rough it will also reduce the effectiveness of the sensor as 1/3 of the base of the sensor is not attached to the window

altor

Jnealon wrote: »

Correct me if I have taken this up wrong but moving the sensor over by 10mm will leave the sensor over hanging the curved part of the frame. Apart from looking very rough it will also reduce the effectiveness of the sensor as 1/3 of the base of the sensor is not attached to the window

The base will be partly over the curve, the two fixings, one in the center beneath the sensor head and the other to the top right will keep the base solid against the frame as the fixings are going into the flat surface. It wont reduce the effectiveness of the sensor.

Jnealon

altor wrote: »

The base will be partly over the curve, the two fixings, one in the center beneath the sensor head and the other to the top right will keep the base solid against the frame as the fixings are going into the flat surface. It wont reduce the effectiveness of the sensor.

I would argue that it would. The sensor is attached to the window frame, the shock waves pass from the frame through the base of the sensor and to the sensor head. If you reduce the area of the sensor that is in contact with the frame then it will reduce the effectiveness of the sensor
It is also looks rough

altor

Jnealon wrote: »

I would argue that it would. The sensor is attached to the window frame, the shock waves pass from the frame through the base of the sensor and to the sensor head. If you reduce the area of the sensor that is in contact with the frame then it will reduce the effectiveness of the sensor
It is also looks rough

I would have to disagree. The sensor fitted as I have suggested will have the same effect on the frame. The sensor will still be attached to the frame using the two points that fix it to the window frame.

Jnealon

altor wrote: »

I would have to disagree. The sensor fitted as I have suggested will have the same effect on the frame. The sensor will still be attached to the frame using the two points that fix it to the window frame.

Ok so you would have no problem doing this.
You can't get away from the fact that it looks rough

altor

Jnealon wrote: »

Ok so you would have no problem doing this.
You can't get away from the fact that it looks rough

I would have no problem installing the senor on the window this way.
Rough is again your opinion.

Jnealon

I suppose on a narrow frame you'd just fit a normal sensor and leave it over hang instead of using a slimline one .
What was astec thinking making those slimline sensors
Each to their own I suppose

altor

I have often had to chop out a wall even when using slimline sensors, they can't make them slim enough for some Windows. A slimline sensor is not going to suit the op here as it is going to be further away from the magnet with the sensor fitted center of the frame. Do you not agree ?

Jnealon

Just making a point, you seem to think it is good practice to leave a sensor overhanging over a window

altor

Once it is fitted securely to the frame it will work as it is meant to. Testing the sensor will determine if it works correctly or not, from experience it will.

Jnealon

Sure it will work, so will a crooked keypad, bellbox or a pir stuck up with double sided tape.
It's still rough, my opinion of course

altor

Good to see we agree it still works.
Rough is again your opinion.

Jnealon

Each to their own

altor

That is correct.

Jnealon

Yes it is

altor

Jnealon wrote: »

Yes it is

We agree so.

Jnealon

On what exactly.
I've made my point and you've made yours, they both differ.
If you call that agreeing

KoolKid

I think this has run its course.