proposed changes of patronage for schools

recedite

I had a look at the submissions of various interest groups to the government in regard to this. Mainly I was trying to find out what is the difference in attitude to religion between the VEC schools (AKA "Community National Schools") and the Educate together ones, as they are both considered "secular" by most people. In a nutshell, their own quotes sum it up;

VEC Schools wrote:

Communal prayers and assemblies should be respectful of the beliefs of all children in the school

and

VEC Schools wrote:

provide ‘faith formation’ for children of all beliefs within the curriculum in belief groups – with students from families with no particular religious affiliation being provided with a module on moral development when other students are participating in denominational religious education

as opposed to;

Educate Together wrote:

Our experience is that it is impossible to provide equality to all children in the school programme, unless the faith formation element of the programme is an opt-in facility that takes place outside the compulsory school day.
We remain very concerned that the current configuration of the Community National Schools still ignores this experience and requires the compulsory registration, labelling and separation of children in schools according to the religious identity of their families. The families that seek out Educate Together schools find such an approach unacceptable...

robindch

recedite wrote: »

[...] ‘faith formation’ [...]

"Faith formation" my ass.

It's "indoctrination" and public educators should refer to it as such.

Solair

I don't really see why schools (and health) should be any different to any other state service.

Could you imagine the uproar if the Department of Social Welfare offices or Public Libraries were faith-based.

Or maybe public transport : You could have the Mary Immaculate Bus Service for Catholic Women and St. Joseph's for Men and perhaps St. Mary's for Protestants.
Now any atheists, Muslims, Jews, etc could simply be told to wear headphones and ignore the endless prayers and religious icons all over the bus.

I don't see how having public schools run by religious organisations is any less daft.

pH

Solair wrote: »

I don't really see why schools (and health) should be any different to any other state service.

Could you imagine the uproar if the Department of Social Welfare offices or Public Libraries were faith-based.

Or maybe public transport : You could have the Mary Immaculate Bus Service for Catholic Women and St. Joseph's for Men and perhaps St. Mary's for Protestants.
Now any atheists, Muslims, Jews, etc could simply be told to wear headphones and ignore the endless prayers and religious icons all over the bus.

I don't see how having public schools run by religious organisations is any less daft.

I agree - but I think you need to take it one step further - why do we need any organisations wedging themselves in the process of the government providing services?

Fine I can see an argument for parents of children to have some say on how peripheral services in a state school are provided - but why does any school need to be patronised by anyone - religious or otherwise?

The problem with the current process is that as they're mainly asking "patrons" (including Educate together) so it's not surprising that they're going to get a pretty trite answer "Schools need patrons ... me! me! pick me! me!"

Dades

I feel a megathread coming on. :pac:

Galvasean

Dades wrote: »

I feel a megathread coming on. :pac:

*Flutters over the Feedback forum with a bag of popcorn*

Arrr, this joke be gettin' a tad old!

Arcus Arrow

It can be boiled down to a basic question:


Should children be taught HOW to think or WHAT to think.


In Ireland it's not just a case of children being taught superstition as reality, as bad as that is. The grip that the Vatican has on the education system effectively allows it to perpetuate a State within the State. This country allows a foreign state to use schools as child indoctrination units to perpetuate the agenda of an organisation of childless men who have their own foreign head of state. It's like allowing Kim Jong Ill to breed disloyalty to Ireland in the natives so that he might be adored from afar while his subjects perpetuate his myth.