The alternate view

TiGeR KiNgS

Why does the Irish Public and Media vilify Sean Quinn and the likes?

Since the economic collapse I have found that there is an ever increasing hostility to people that were successful during the boom and that they are to blame for Irelands economic woes. This in my opinion is naïve, misguided and cynical. The entrepreneurs and property speculators that originally invested in Ireland recognised the potential in Ireland.

These are the same people that possess qualities in leadership, entrepreneurship, risk taking, determination (even stubbornness) and of course resourcefulness.

These are the same people that create the productive and wealth creating jobs that grow economies around the world.

These types of qualities are rare in people and this country needs to embrace the capitalistic spirit instead of listening to sob stories about the ordinary worker having to leave Ireland to find there 'fortunes elsewhere' and the simplistic view that greedy & speculative people destroyed our economy.

The fact is our political elite destroyed this economy by allowing it to overheat, in fact, encouraging it to overheat. These are the real villains of this tragedy. Fianna Fail had been in power for too long, they were complacent, basking in past glories, blissfully unaware of impending collapse and when crisis hit there was no plan but reactive policy after reactive policy i.e. the infamous bank guarantee after drawing on advice from the very people with conflicted interests.

The facts are clear in my opinion, the original property speculators were only acting on what made them wealthy in the first place, namely, opportunity. Fianna Fail provided this opportunity by fostering policies such as the upward only rent scheme. This along with other policies encouraged Anglo Irish Bank to overexpose its portfolio to Irish property to maximise its return for shareholders.

I propose that the Anglo Titanic with Sean Fitzpatrick at the helm was as a result of the market conditions set down by the political establishment. Anglo and its brethren are in fact not to blame; after all they were in survival mode when the government were taking their advice, who wouldn’t act with self-preservation in mind and shareholders to act for? With so much on the line I know my answer. To me this is simply Capitalism in action.

Charles Darwin explained that essentially in nature the strongest survive and the weakest die. In a Karmic way, the qualities I outlined in the introduction are what thrive under this order in the corporate environment. The most adaptable and resourceful businesses survive. I propose that these strong adaptable and resourceful businesses can only be founded by true entrepreneurs.
The products, services and ideas that entrepreneurs cultivate and bring to the market allow for their business to expand and grow in a way that the ordinary man cannot without a lot of luck or good timing. To vilify entrepreneurs and impose draconian bankruptcy laws ultimately acts against the public interest.

The likes of Sean Quinn, Sean Dunne etc. should be allowed a fresh start, ready to start there next venture. I would rather their inherent entrepreneurial abilities to be served in Ireland rather than the U.S. or Britain.

I propose 2 points of order
1. That everyone with personal assets over 10 million Euro at any point over the last 5 years can escape bankruptcy within a year like the UK. This figure will stop those in negative equity and mortgage arrears handing back properties on mass while allowing those entrepreneurs that have a proven record of success to start again, rebuild, create jobs and grow this economy.
2. I also propose that the insolvency laws in Ireland update the restructuring of debt on companies to be in line with that of the UK.

Point 1 clearly won’t be a popular view but I hope after reading this post you understand what I am trying to get at. I know this would take real political guts so very unlikely. However, Ireland needs new concerted political views like when Ireland looked outwards
and expelled the insular economy that had been pervasive in our society and political class.


Please note, that this musing is not an attempt to explain the ‘many’ who were reckless or naïve that got lucky for a while playing follow the leader in an unsustainable model getting richer and richer until eventually the house called quits and the pyramid collapsed.

These were the unlucky ones that found themselves out of there depth with regards to expertise and skills while not possessing the true entrepreneurial spirit.

constantg

there is so much wrong with your statement, that the only thing i can say coherently about it at 5am is that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about in relation to the avarice of sean quinn et al.

Nijmegen

As a businessman running a company with a high 8-figure turnover, I would like to tell you that the majority of the Irish 'entrepreneurs' of the boom, the lads who are now in hock to the banks for loans that went sour, were not the resourceful type of innovators you want for the long run.

They were, in my personal experience of knowing them, mostly fellas who fell into being millionaires without understanding how it happened and now don't quite understand how they lost it all.

Oh sure they are hard workers, men who started out on the ground floor. But what made most of them rich was cheap credit and what made them go broke was having all their eggs tied into property and loans, a big bubble that any smart businessperson would diversify away from as quickly as they had made their first million in it.

Sean Quinn is a special case. He created a real and diverse business. But he also screwed it up royally - When you're a multi-billionaire you don't get to cry that someone sold you a pup, that you were confused by all these contracts for difference and that nobody copped that your insurance company assets were used as guarantees for risky loans.

If you manage to lose it all it's because you didn't seek the right advice, you didn't take the correct steps and you fudged it up.

These chaps, to be honest, are not the type of business people we need.

We need the kind of people who are building Irish companies slowly but surely, from technology companies like Havock to Paddy Power, or the small firms who are investing and growing - Check out Enterprise Ireland's supported companies.

The 'entrepreneurs' you speak of largely had construction related businesses and one day got a call to ask them to get in on a property deal and from there it went.

That they now try and shirk responsibility for as much of it as possible, sending assets to their wives or family and running away, is not the sign of leaders.

ednwireland

cos he's a gambler, he bet on cfd's and lost

ok maybe a simplistic viewpoint but basically betting an anglo sheres did for him

BeeDI

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Why does the Irish Public and Media vilify Sean Quinn and the likes?

Since the economic collapse I have found that there is an ever increasing hostility to people that were successful during the boom and that they are to blame for Irelands economic woes. This in my opinion is naïve, misguided and cynical. The entrepreneurs and property speculators that originally invested in Ireland recognised the potential in Ireland.

These are the same people that possess qualities in leadership, entrepreneurship, risk taking, determination (even stubbornness) and of course resourcefulness.

These are the same people that create the productive and wealth creating jobs that grow economies around the world.

These types of qualities are rare in people and this country needs to embrace the capitalistic spirit instead of listening to sob stories about the ordinary worker having to leave Ireland to find there 'fortunes elsewhere' and the simplistic view that greedy & speculative people destroyed our economy.

The fact is our political elite destroyed this economy by allowing it to overheat, in fact, encouraging it to overheat. These are the real villains of this tragedy. Fianna Fail had been in power for too long, they were complacent, basking in past glories, blissfully unaware of impending collapse and when crisis hit there was no plan but reactive policy after reactive policy i.e. the infamous bank guarantee after drawing on advice from the very people with conflicted interests.

The facts are clear in my opinion, the original property speculators were only acting on what made them wealthy in the first place, namely, opportunity. Fianna Fail provided this opportunity by fostering policies such as the upward only rent scheme. This along with other policies encouraged Anglo Irish Bank to overexpose its portfolio to Irish property to maximise its return for shareholders.

I propose that the Anglo Titanic with Sean Fitzpatrick at the helm was as a result of the market conditions set down by the political establishment. Anglo and its brethren are in fact not to blame; after all they were in survival mode when the government were taking their advice, who wouldn’t act with self-preservation in mind and shareholders to act for? With so much on the line I know my answer. To me this is simply Capitalism in action.

Charles Darwin explained that essentially in nature the strongest survive and the weakest die. In a Karmic way, the qualities I outlined in the introduction are what thrive under this order in the corporate environment. The most adaptable and resourceful businesses survive. I propose that these strong adaptable and resourceful businesses can only be founded by true entrepreneurs.
The products, services and ideas that entrepreneurs cultivate and bring to the market allow for their business to expand and grow in a way that the ordinary man cannot without a lot of luck or good timing. To vilify entrepreneurs and impose draconian bankruptcy laws ultimately acts against the public interest.

The likes of Sean Quinn, Sean Dunne etc. should be allowed a fresh start, ready to start there next venture. I would rather their inherent entrepreneurial abilities to be served in Ireland rather than the U.S. or Britain.

I propose 2 points of order
1. That everyone with personal assets over 10 million Euro at any point over the last 5 years can escape bankruptcy within a year like the UK. This figure will stop those in negative equity and mortgage arrears handing back properties on mass while allowing those entrepreneurs that have a proven record of success to start again, rebuild, create jobs and grow this economy.
2. I also propose that the insolvency laws in Ireland update the restructuring of debt on companies to be in line with that of the UK.

Point 1 clearly won’t be a popular view but I hope after reading this post you understand what I am trying to get at. I know this would take real political guts so very unlikely. However, Ireland needs new concerted political views like when Ireland looked outwards
and expelled the insular economy that had been pervasive in our society and political class.


Please note, that this musing is not an attempt to explain the ‘many’ who were reckless or naïve that got lucky for a while playing follow the leader in an unsustainable model getting richer and richer until eventually the house called quits and the pyramid collapsed.

These were the unlucky ones that found themselves out of there depth with regards to expertise and skills while not possessing the true entrepreneurial spirit.

FFS,you should be asking, why most of these guys are not in jail, doing hard labour, and fed twice a day, with soggy mouldy bread.

antoobrien

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

The likes of Sean Quinn, Sean Dunne etc. should be allowed a fresh start, ready to start there next venture.

None of them should be allowed free rein to make the same mistakes again.

As somebody who created a large amount of reasonably sustainable employment, I would have had some sympathy for Quinn. That was right up until he started the asset shuffle and basically showed himself up for the chancer that he is.

We've had too many people like this in Ireland.

If they did anything illegal (I don't think Quinn actually did) then they should get jail time.

If they were just plain stupid (like Quinn now appears to have been with the CFDs) then they should lose it all and have children thought lessons about how badly these muppets f*cked up for a few decades.

yellowlabrador

You've got the theory of Evolution wrong for a start by claiming that the 'strongest' survive. That is not how evolution works
The rot set in by changing the banking rules and allowing new financial instruments to 'create' wealth.

Atilathehun

yellowlabrador wrote: »

You've got the theory of Evolution wrong for a start by claiming that the 'strongest' survive. That is not how evolution works
The rot set in by changing the banking rules and allowing new financial instruments to 'create' wealth.

The rot set in with Reagan and Thatcher.

Oh, and Jack Lynch,...................... didn't he start auction politics and election strategies in Ireland, when he appointed that PLONKER, Martin O Donoghue to a position of authority. Got rid of road tax, just to gather votes for FF. The two of them should be dug up and jailed along with Quinn, Fitzpatrick, Dunner and the rest of the fckers.

jmayo

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Why does the Irish Public and Media vilify Sean Quinn and the likes?

Since the economic collapse I have found that there is an ever increasing hostility to people that were successful during the boom and that they are to blame for Irelands economic woes. This in my opinion is naïve, misguided and cynical. The entrepreneurs and property speculators that originally invested in Ireland recognised the potential in Ireland.

These are the same people that possess qualities in leadership, entrepreneurship, risk taking, determination (even stubbornness) and of course resourcefulness.

These are the same people that create the productive and wealth creating jobs that grow economies around the world.

These types of qualities are rare in people and this country needs to embrace the capitalistic spirit instead of listening to sob stories about the ordinary worker having to leave Ireland to find there 'fortunes elsewhere' and the simplistic view that greedy & speculative people destroyed our economy.

The fact is our political elite destroyed this economy by allowing it to overheat, in fact, encouraging it to overheat. These are the real villains of this tragedy. Fianna Fail had been in power for too long, they were complacent, basking in past glories, blissfully unaware of impending collapse and when crisis hit there was no plan but reactive policy after reactive policy i.e. the infamous bank guarantee after drawing on advice from the very people with conflicted interests.

The facts are clear in my opinion, the original property speculators were only acting on what made them wealthy in the first place, namely, opportunity. Fianna Fail provided this opportunity by fostering policies such as the upward only rent scheme. This along with other policies encouraged Anglo Irish Bank to overexpose its portfolio to Irish property to maximise its return for shareholders.

I propose that the Anglo Titanic with Sean Fitzpatrick at the helm was as a result of the market conditions set down by the political establishment. Anglo and its brethren are in fact not to blame; after all they were in survival mode when the government were taking their advice, who wouldn’t act with self-preservation in mind and shareholders to act for? With so much on the line I know my answer. To me this is simply Capitalism in action.

Charles Darwin explained that essentially in nature the strongest survive and the weakest die. In a Karmic way, the qualities I outlined in the introduction are what thrive under this order in the corporate environment. The most adaptable and resourceful businesses survive. I propose that these strong adaptable and resourceful businesses can only be founded by true entrepreneurs.
The products, services and ideas that entrepreneurs cultivate and bring to the market allow for their business to expand and grow in a way that the ordinary man cannot without a lot of luck or good timing. To vilify entrepreneurs and impose draconian bankruptcy laws ultimately acts against the public interest.

The likes of Sean Quinn, Sean Dunne etc. should be allowed a fresh start, ready to start there next venture. I would rather their inherent entrepreneurial abilities to be served in Ireland rather than the U.S. or Britain.

I propose 2 points of order
1. That everyone with personal assets over 10 million Euro at any point over the last 5 years can escape bankruptcy within a year like the UK. This figure will stop those in negative equity and mortgage arrears handing back properties on mass while allowing those entrepreneurs that have a proven record of success to start again, rebuild, create jobs and grow this economy.
2. I also propose that the insolvency laws in Ireland update the restructuring of debt on companies to be in line with that of the UK.

Point 1 clearly won’t be a popular view but I hope after reading this post you understand what I am trying to get at. I know this would take real political guts so very unlikely. However, Ireland needs new concerted political views like when Ireland looked outwards
and expelled the insular economy that had been pervasive in our society and political class.


Please note, that this musing is not an attempt to explain the ‘many’ who were reckless or naïve that got lucky for a while playing follow the leader in an unsustainable model getting richer and richer until eventually the house called quits and the pyramid collapsed.

These were the unlucky ones that found themselves out of there depth with regards to expertise and skills while not possessing the true entrepreneurial spirit.

Your post has left me with a dilemma.
I am not sure whether I should term this Horsesh**e or Bullsh**e.

I sense vested interest who is lamenting the fall of the "property related merchant".
BTW they were not real entrepreneurs who created long term sustainable wealth and entities.
They created short term wealth generating entities that relied on imported cheap credit.
You appear to be part of the brigade that have learnt nothing from the mess of the past 10 odd years.

Oh and the political class that you blame for all this were bought by your so called entrepreneurs.

Actually I can't believe I am bothering replying to this delusional sh**e. :mad:

Godge

Sean Quinn is the only one of those mentioned who created anything. He built up a multinational empire with cement, hotels, health insurance, car insurance etc., that was actually producing wealth. His story after that is like a Shakespearian tragedy, he was flawed with greed and it was his greed to make more riches by speculatively gambling on bank shares that brought him down to ruin. In the back of my mind, there is a small smidgen of sympathy for him, but just like when thinking about King Lear, I wonder how anybody could be so stupid and that ultimately he is getting what he deserved. That smidgen further disappears when I see his frantic desprate pathetic attempts to hang on to his wealth. Look at what the Belfast judge said about him.

As for the others, Sean Dunne, Sean Fitzpatrick, David Drumm, the other Builders, Derek Quinlan etc., they created nothing. They were Irish gombeens out to make a quick buck buying and selling, moving on, making a quick profit, reinvesting to make another quick profit. They were not entrepreneurs. They were property speclators. There is a big difference and I for one have no sympathy for any of them, not even the tiny smidgen of sympathy I have for Sean Quinn.

johnnyskeleton

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Why does the Irish Public and Media vilify Sean Quinn and the likes?

Since the economic collapse I have found that there is an ever increasing hostility to people that were successful during the boom and that they are to blame for Irelands economic woes. This in my opinion is naïve, misguided and cynical. The entrepreneurs and property speculators that originally invested in Ireland recognised the potential in Ireland.

If he paid back all the money he owes I wouldn't have a problem with him.

Charles Darwin explained that essentially in nature the strongest survive and the weakest die. In a Karmic way, the qualities I outlined in the introduction are what thrive under this order in the corporate environment. The most adaptable and resourceful businesses survive. I propose that these strong adaptable and resourceful businesses can only be founded by true entrepreneurs.

Well in a way that is precicely it. These guys made lots of money during the good times but found themselves completely incapable of adapting to the downturn. Therefore, they lack the necessary adaptability to survive.

The likes of Sean Quinn, Sean Dunne etc. should be allowed a fresh start, ready to start there next venture. I would rather their inherent entrepreneurial abilities to be served in Ireland rather than the U.S. or Britain.

Here's an idea, how about we take their failed businesses and hand them over to an equally talented person but who hasn't yet cost the taxpayer billions in unpaid debt? This idea that the developers and business people who ran their companies into the ground are the only ones who can fix it makes absolutely no sense.

I propose 2 points of order
1. That everyone with personal assets over 10 million Euro at any point over the last 5 years can escape bankruptcy within a year like the UK. This figure will stop those in negative equity and mortgage arrears handing back properties on mass while allowing those entrepreneurs that have a proven record of success to start again, rebuild, create jobs and grow this economy.
2. I also propose that the insolvency laws in Ireland update the restructuring of debt on companies to be in line with that of the UK.

Apart from the fact that I agree with bankruptscy reform in Ireland, the idea of having one rule for the former rich and another for the poor is nonsense.

Point 1 clearly won’t be a popular view but I hope after reading this post you understand what I am trying to get at. I know this would take real political guts so very unlikely. However, Ireland needs new concerted political views like when Ireland looked outwards

It's just patently unfair with no discernable benefit. If anything, persons of higher debt/former assets should spend longer in bankruptscy protection so that any assets that they have secreted away can be discovered.

and expelled the insular economy that had been pervasive in our society and political class.

What we really need to get rid of are the FF supporters who believe in one rule for their rich developer buddies and another, less favourable rule for everyone else.

These were the unlucky ones that found themselves out of there depth with regards to expertise and skills while not possessing the true entrepreneurial spirit.

So who decides who has "true" entrepeneurial spirit and who is just out of their depth? Is it completely subjective i.e. Quinn & Dunne are good FF boys so they are true entrepeneurs, but X is a FG supporter so was merely out of their depth? Or is it that the more money you borrowed and squandered, the greater your entrepeneurialship is? So someone with 500k borrowings clearly isn't as good a risk taker than the person who borrowed 500m, even if the 500k resulted in 400k being paid back but the 500m resulted in 10m being paid back?

coolshannagh28

A lot of the post seems tongue in cheek however there is merit in some of the arguments.FF did turn the economy on the electoral cycle and the seemingly everlasting boom sucked a lot of entrepeneurs in ,especially to property . Many of these can still make a contribution if allowed ,we cannot discard 15 years worth of entrepeneurs.
Our economy is structurally imbalanced ,a contracting domestic sector ,overblown public sector and a multinational sector that does not contribute enough jobs or tax in relation to their size in the economy.
Wealth creators are required to pick up the slack ,we should encourage them.

jmayo

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

A lot of the post seems tongue in cheek however there is merit in some of the arguments.FF did turn the economy on the electoral cycle and the seemingly everlasting boom sucked a lot of entrepeneurs in ,especially to property .

Sucked them in ?
You make it sound as if all these so called entrepreneurs were some gullible bunch who were led astray.

Most of the so called entrepreneurs were builders or involved some way in the building industry.
See where the great titans of the construction bubble started.
See where the sean dunnes, bernard mcnamaras, sen mulryans, joe o'reillys, seamus rosses, gerry gannons, liam carrolls started out.

They have always been about building and that is it.
Sometimes they bought into projects like hotels, shopping centres, hospitals, and nursing homes that their political friends conveniently allowed tax right offs on.
Have any of these ever built a business that exported something or built a business that didn't involve bricks and mortar ?

Also the above list plus the others like ronan/barrett were not outside the ff political circle.
They bloody well were to their necks in it and funded the ff party machine. :mad:
Remember the Galway tent or who was invited to weddings on fancy yatchs or invited to the speeches given by our leader to foreign parliaments.

Even the great sean quinn built his empire around the good old Irish stables of construction and boozing.
Then he moved into insurance and banking, but broke more rules than enough that resulted in us all stuck with his collosal gambling debts.

The same with the lieks of jim mansfeild whose enterprises were mostly about breaking and disregarding our planning laws.

And you want the likes of these people to hang around ?

Wippee for the great Irish entrepreneurs. :rolleyes:

Or perhaps you mean such entrepreneurs as sean gallagher whose great entrepreneurial record was shown to be a sham where even during the height of the biggest building boom in history, his contruction related entity needed taxpayer funding. :rolleyes:

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Many of these can still make a contribution if allowed ,we cannot discard 15 years worth of entrepeneurs.
Our economy is structurally imbalanced ,

FFS it is imblanced because of the very so called entrepreneurs that you want to see hang around. :mad:

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

a contracting domestic sector ,overblown public sector and a multinational sector that does not contribute enough jobs or tax in relation to their size in the economy.
Wealth creators are required to pick up the slack ,we should encourage them.

These are not wealth creators, but taxpayer spongers and a sponge on peoples' real weath.

If you want to laud Irish entrepreneurs then take a look at the likes of Denis Brosnan, Chris Horn, Edward Haughey, Pat McDonagh, Fergal Quinn, Jerry Kennelly, Terry Clune or many others who actually built proper enterprises that could stand on their own feet and didn't involve using credit to fund the purchase of bricks and mortar.

Bagenal

Nijmegen wrote: »

As a businessman running a company with a high 8-figure turnover, I would like to tell you that the majority of the Irish 'entrepreneurs' of the boom, the lads who are now in hock to the banks for loans that went sour, were not the resourceful type of innovators you want for the long run.

They were, in my personal experience of knowing them, mostly fellas who fell into being millionaires without understanding how it happened and now don't quite understand how they lost it all.

Oh sure they are hard workers, men who started out on the ground floor. But what made most of them rich was cheap credit and what made them go broke was having all their eggs tied into property and loans, a big bubble that any smart businessperson would diversify away from as quickly as they had made their first million in it.

I like your post, simple and understandable. Well done 1

KindOfIrish

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Why does the Irish Public and Media vilify Sean Quinn and the likes?

Since the economic collapse I have found that there is an ever increasing hostility to people that were successful during the boom and that they are to blame for Irelands economic woes.

Successful businessmen and companies don't file for bankruptcy. All those Celtic Tiger era "successful business" were in fact ponzy schemes thriving on unlimited credit.

Mr.Micro

Bagenal wrote: »

Nijmegen wrote: »

As a businessman running a company with a high 8-figure turnover, I would like to tell you that the majority of the Irish 'entrepreneurs' of the boom, the lads who are now in hock to the banks for loans that went sour, were not the resourceful type of innovators you want for the long run.

They were, in my personal experience of knowing them, mostly fellas who fell into being millionaires without understanding how it happened and now don't quite understand how they lost it all.

I agree with much of what you say. The word though I would use is, "chancers" as opposed to "entrepreneurs". Watching the news, of the ones that we hear about, there is a daily procession to the commercial courts re loans that are outstanding, that these types, do not/cannot or will not, pay back. It struck me, that any person could have become a millionaire instantly, with the right connections, and borrowed the money from the bank. There was no collateral in most cases and overnight one was a millionaire. That is how crazy this whole mess is and how the chancers believed they had made money or were successful. Its no wonder they cannot pay it back as they should never have had it.

n900guy

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Why does the Irish Public and Media vilify Sean Quinn and the likes?

Being an entrepreneur is great, risk taking, success etc., .

Being an entrepreneur by risk taking with massive amounts of borrowed money is sort of stupid but fire ahead it's your gamble.

Being an entrepreneur and losing vast sums of borrowed money and attempting to dump the loans onto the ordinary taxpayer? = your answer.

coolshannagh28

We cannot affford our public sector ,the multinational sector cannot make up the difference who is going to pay the taxes that keep our country afloat ,entrepeneurs and wealth creators in the private sector , love them or loathe them they pay the bills !

constantg

Anyone get the feeling that OP was just looking to provoke an anti-Sean Quinn debate? Or has the real Tigerkings gone into hiding in spain?

ednwireland

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

We cannot affford our public sector ,the multinational sector cannot make up the difference who is going to pay the taxes that keep our country afloat ,entrepeneurs and wealth creators in the private sector , love them or loathe them they pay the bills !

theres your problem (there are wealth creators in the private sector just turns out sean quinn isnt one of them - how much did he cost the taxpayer - and i have to pay another fupping insurance levy because of him)

antoobrien

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Watching the news, of the ones that we hear about, there is a daily procession to the commercial courts re loans that are outstanding, that these types, do not/cannot or will not, pay back.

That kind of thing has been happening for years - before and during the boom. The difference is now people are noticing that businesses aren't paying their dues.

baddebt

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Why does the Irish Public and Media vilify Sean Quinn and the likes?

Since the economic collapse I have found that there is an ever increasing hostility to people that were successful during the boom and that they are to blame for Irelands economic woes. This in my opinion is naïve, misguided and cynical. The entrepreneurs and property speculators that originally invested in Ireland recognised the potential in Ireland.

These are the same people that possess qualities in leadership, entrepreneurship, risk taking, determination (even stubbornness) and of course resourcefulness.

These are the same people that create the productive and wealth creating jobs that grow economies around the world.

These types of qualities are rare in people and this country needs to embrace the capitalistic spirit instead of listening to sob stories about the ordinary worker having to leave Ireland to find there 'fortunes elsewhere' and the simplistic view that greedy & speculative people destroyed our economy.

The fact is our political elite destroyed this economy by allowing it to overheat, in fact, encouraging it to overheat. These are the real villains of this tragedy. Fianna Fail had been in power for too long, they were complacent, basking in past glories, blissfully unaware of impending collapse and when crisis hit there was no plan but reactive policy after reactive policy i.e. the infamous bank guarantee after drawing on advice from the very people with conflicted interests.

The facts are clear in my opinion, the original property speculators were only acting on what made them wealthy in the first place, namely, opportunity. Fianna Fail provided this opportunity by fostering policies such as the upward only rent scheme. This along with other policies encouraged Anglo Irish Bank to overexpose its portfolio to Irish property to maximise its return for shareholders.

I propose that the Anglo Titanic with Sean Fitzpatrick at the helm was as a result of the market conditions set down by the political establishment. Anglo and its brethren are in fact not to blame; after all they were in survival mode when the government were taking their advice, who wouldn’t act with self-preservation in mind and shareholders to act for? With so much on the line I know my answer. To me this is simply Capitalism in action.

Charles Darwin explained that essentially in nature the strongest survive and the weakest die. In a Karmic way, the qualities I outlined in the introduction are what thrive under this order in the corporate environment. The most adaptable and resourceful businesses survive. I propose that these strong adaptable and resourceful businesses can only be founded by true entrepreneurs.
The products, services and ideas that entrepreneurs cultivate and bring to the market allow for their business to expand and grow in a way that the ordinary man cannot without a lot of luck or good timing. To vilify entrepreneurs and impose draconian bankruptcy laws ultimately acts against the public interest.

The likes of Sean Quinn, Sean Dunne etc. should be allowed a fresh start, ready to start there next venture. I would rather their inherent entrepreneurial abilities to be served in Ireland rather than the U.S. or Britain.

I propose 2 points of order
1. That everyone with personal assets over 10 million Euro at any point over the last 5 years can escape bankruptcy within a year like the UK. This figure will stop those in negative equity and mortgage arrears handing back properties on mass while allowing those entrepreneurs that have a proven record of success to start again, rebuild, create jobs and grow this economy.
2. I also propose that the insolvency laws in Ireland update the restructuring of debt on companies to be in line with that of the UK.

Point 1 clearly won’t be a popular view but I hope after reading this post you understand what I am trying to get at. I know this would take real political guts so very unlikely. However, Ireland needs new concerted political views like when Ireland looked outwards
and expelled the insular economy that had been pervasive in our society and political class.


Please note, that this musing is not an attempt to explain the ‘many’ who were reckless or naïve that got lucky for a while playing follow the leader in an unsustainable model getting richer and richer until eventually the house called quits and the pyramid collapsed.

These were the unlucky ones that found themselves out of there depth with regards to expertise and skills while not possessing the true entrepreneurial spirit.

I think you are the naive one here , all these ent, developers etc Barrowed Billions and billions of euro without ever paying back a penny = and now that leave use joe publics to hand over every penny we earn to pay for their risk taking,
they get off scot free , we suffer generations of pain , with a lot more to come ,

can i make a wee suggestion to you ?
pull your head out of your dinner-dumper

coolshannagh28

I have no brief for Sean Quinn ,the point I am making is if we dont encourage entrepeneurs from small retailers to large exporters who is going to pay the bills .The country now is divided up with insiders on one side, the political and PS establishment who are feeding off the carcass of the nation and the private sector and frontline PS struggling to survive.
Remember the establishment ie government ,regulators, banks PS unions contributed as much to our problems as developers and builders ,who were only allowing capital to follow profit as in any capitalist system.

TiGeR KiNgS

Marian Finucane Show, Sunday 15 January 2012
Sunday Newspaper Panel Discussion, Part 2

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_marianfinucane.xml


Interesting discussion, pretty much echoing what my original post was alluding too.

TiGeR KiNgS

Nijmegen wrote: »

As a businessman running a company with a high 8-figure turnover, I would like to tell you that the majority of the Irish 'entrepreneurs' of the boom, the lads who are now in hock to the banks for loans that went sour, were not the resourceful type of innovators you want for the long run.

''Please note, that this musing is not an attempt to explain the ‘many’ who were reckless or naïve that got lucky for a while playing follow the leader in an unsustainable model getting richer and richer until eventually the house called quits and the pyramid collapsed.''