Deer dog training [Norwegian Elkhound]

juice1304

Right lads i have a Norwegian Elkhound puppy he is 13 weeks old, i would like to train him for tracking deer if at all possible. I don't see why i could'nt he is very intelligent [ toilet trained in one day, the next day he learned to sit.]
I heard they can smell game from several miles away so i don't see why he could'nt follow a trail. Now i don't have a clue how to train a deer dog so if you have any tips, trick or any info at all that'd be great. Also do you think i will have any problems training him? Any help would be much appreciated.
I am more doing it as a laugh and to give him and myself something to do.
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Tackleberrywho

Train him to heel, you need to be able to stalk with him at your foot.

have had a dog with me a few times recently out stalking.

Difficulties are keeping dog quiet, a wagging tail against leaves/grass can cause a racket when least desired.

You also need him to only go in on your command, so if you shoot a deer and need a follow up shot the dog is at your foot until you tell him otherwise.

If you can train him to move on handsignals otrher than voice commands aswell would be a serious advantage.

juice1304

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Train him to heel, you need to be able to stalk with him at your foot.

have had a dog with me a few times recently out stalking.

Difficulties are keeping dog quiet, a wagging tail against leaves/grass can cause a racket when least desired.

You also need him to only go in on your command, so if you shoot a deer and need a follow up shot the dog is at your foot until you tell him otherwise.

If you can train him to move on handsignals otrher than voice commands aswell would be a serious advantage.

Do you find it an advantage finding deer with the dog? would i be better off keeping him on a long lead? when should i start trying to teach him to follow blood trails? sorry for all the questions.

Tackleberrywho

juice1304 wrote: »

Do you find it an advantage finding deer with the dog? would i be better off keeping him on a long lead? when should i start trying to teach him to follow blood trails? sorry for all the questions.

If you have a second man as a dog handler maybe an advantage.

As I said, only had a dog with me a couple of times, and it was not my dog.
these are just my observations.
I reckon an older dog that was rock steady, a pup tends to get excited and flaff about.

Anytime we had a dog loose and saw deer the Deer saw us first.
Can't obviously shout SIT, HEEL, LIE DOWN etc when trying to be ultra quiet.

if you can get the dog to walk behind you and search on que then it could be useful.
You have to remember you may need to cross rough terrain on your own with a deer on your back, so Dog needs to be almost on Auto pilot.

I myself, like the idea, but would not have the time, energy or patience to miss out on handy deer just so to train a dog.

However if you have a buddy to control the dog for teh first few stalks perhaps it's worth a go.

John_Rambo

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

wagging tail against leaves/grass can cause a racket when least desired.

:pac: sorry... but I can picture the scenario, it is funny "shut the fook up" without making a noise, dog thinks its amusing, tail wags more...

Interesting thread though, often wondered about tracking dogs that had to stay quiet. Mate had a terrier that was deaf and he had loads of hand commands for her. We traveled a good bit around the country with her, great little terrier (pet, not a working dog), but had all the commands, heal, sit, stay, going in to the pub so stay there and I will be back soon etc... She was a great tracker too. (long story, pints, lost, couldn't find the campsite etc..)

dev110

First off lovely looking dog!

I would think the training would be the same as any hunting dog (springer/pointer) just that your game is deer and not pheasants/duck.

One thing with training a dog is to take your time and not rush things even if your dog is picking things up quick still take your time and make sure each part of training is solid before you move to the next.

Start with sit and recall. You need these to be very solid before going out into the field! If they are not your heart will be broke.

I would start him on blood trails now but I would be laying them on the lawn or a small safe area then when he is out in the field he will know what he is looking for.

Getting a dog to walk on heel is very easy to do and is an important thing for them to know especially after deer.

Do you use a dog to search for deer or to search for a deer that was shot?

If you use him to search at the start it will be hard to use hand signals as the dog will be working away from you (head up or down don't know what way they hunt) and won't see the hand signal so you will need either a whistle or a verbal command to get him to recall and then the deer will hear this and move off.

A long lead would break your heart getting snagged in things. Imagine a long lead in a wooded area

juice1304

dev110 wrote: »

First off lovely looking dog!

Imagine a long lead in a wooded area

Thanks:)
lol it is a funny thought.:D:D

Tackleberrywho

Styerman2 uses a Black Lab i think.
He might have a few tips.

It was an ESS we used, and she could heel well.
hardest part is when going through heavy cover when you know their is a fine buck the other side of the clearing.

trying to get the dog to move with stealth is a real hard job.
You really need a dog that can think like you and anticipate your movements.

Hard enough to get Humans to do that.
We did not need the dog to track deer, we just brought her along for if we ever needed a deer tracked.

She did not eat any of the deer we had in the back of the jeep which was a bonus.
She has seen a lot of dead deer at this stage, so if she is ever needed to search I reckon she would work out well.
handier leave her in the jeep though, and bring her out if you can't find a carcass.

E. Fudd

I have a black lab bitch at my heel whenever I stalk.

A couple of things:

Train her to heel to your left side (if right handed), and have her heeling by simply pointing to your side, and not leaving the heel position come hell or high water unless you tell her to. This will take time, but is vital. You want her stopping when you stop. Try "stalking" rabbits with her first to give her the idea that when you move she moves and when you stop she stops.

Teach her to jump. The last thing you want to be doing is trying to persuade a dog to get over, under, or through a fence or wall. Put a bar across the entrance to her kennel and gradually raise it, this will make her a natural jumper and will lead to her being able to clear fences etc with ease.

Get her used to gunfire, bang and clatter pots and pans when feeding, and introduce gunfire gradually. You also want her steady to shot, so when you fire she doesn't automatically think - right I'm off to find this deer - she waits till you tell her too.

Make deer her life - give her hooves and hide to play with, get some fresh deer blood and rub it on her snout. Give her liver as soon as you gralloch an animal.

Start laying really easy to find blood trails now, and have a hoof for her to play with as a reward at the end.



My lab bitch Tara still has a hell of a lot to learn at 18 months, but I've had her at my heel most of this season and I genuinely wouldn't be without a dog now. Only the other day she copped a doe lying up in heavy over that I never would have copped without her. I subsequently shot the doe and gave Tara the "get on command", she went straight in and stood beside the carcass. Things like that make all the training well worth it.

Enjoy it, Ive found that because you're so close to the dog a lot of the time that the bond between you is stronger than usual, she knows what you're next move is before you do usually!!!

poulo6.5

dev110 wrote: »

First off lovely looking dog!

I would think the training would be the same as any hunting dog (springer/pointer) just that your game is deer and not pheasants/duck.

One thing with training a dog is to take your time and not rush things even if your dog is picking things up quick still take your time and make sure each part of training is solid before you move to the next.

Start with sit and recall. You need these to be very solid before going out into the field! If they are not your heart will be broke.

I would start him on blood trails now but I would be laying them on the lawn or a small safe area then when he is out in the field he will know what he is looking for.

Getting a dog to walk on heel is very easy to do and is an important thing for them to know especially after deer.

Do you use a dog to search for deer or to search for a deer that was shot?

If you use him to search at the start it will be hard to use hand signals as the dog will be working away from you (head up or down don't know what way they hunt) and won't see the hand signal so you will need either a whistle or a verbal command to get him to recall and then the deer will hear this and move off.

A long lead would break your heart getting snagged in things. Imagine a long lead in a wooded area

how many deer tracking dogs have you trained. or even how good are you at tracking deer. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76440863&postcount=4
you tried to say that deer tracks were that of a goat.

my advise to the op is to ask for people that actually have a dog for deer, or at the very least are deer stalkers.

there are a couple of lads on here that have deer dogs, steyrman2 and Dr6.5 are two that come to mind, it might be worth your while pm them for tip just in case they havent seen this thread.

some of the advise given above is true though. you must work on obedience first and fore most.
a couple of minutes every day or so getting the dog to sit and stay and come on command. these are good building blocks for any dog. the finer points of training for specialist training is best left to the experts.

if you need any blood for training or some deer skin to make a dummy i'm sure there are a few lads here will be happy to help you out,

i look forward to hear how you get on

dev110

poulo6.5 wrote: »

how many deer tracking dogs have you trained. or even how good are you at tracking deer. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76440863&postcount=4
you tried to say that deer tracks were that of a goat.

How many have you trained or Tack?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76451145&postcount=34

poulo6.5

dev110 wrote: »

How many have you trained or Tack?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76451145&postcount=34

no need to be so snippy young man
but you asked so i will tell you

i have trained 2 English springer spaniels for birds and countless guard dogs as well, none for deer. that is why i have given my advise above that the op should ask for people that have actually done it before.

it is a specialized training and i wouldnt dare give advise on something i have never done, i am not being argumentative but i feel that there are to many people on here giving advise on things they have never done

i wont ask you to tell us all about your experience

sorry if i have caused an argument

dev110

dev110 wrote: »

I would think the training would be the same as any hunting dog (springer/pointer) just that your game is deer and not pheasants/duck.

One thing with training a dog is to take your time and not rush things even if your dog is picking things up quick still take your time and make sure each part of training is solid before you move to the next.

Start with sit and recall. You need these to be very solid before going out into the field! If they are not your heart will be broke.

poulo6.5 wrote: »

some of the advise given above is true though. you must work on obedience first and fore most.
a couple of minutes every day or so getting the dog to sit and stay and come on command. these are good building blocks for any dog.

Same as I said

Dev110 wrote:

I would start him on blood trails now but I would be laying them on the lawn or a small safe area then when he is out in the field he will know what he is looking for.

This is the way I trained my ESS and when he got into the field he was on pheasant scents straight away so I was thinking that it should work the same for deer. Yes/No?

dev110 wrote:

Do you use a dog to search for deer or to search for a deer that was shot?

Tackleberrywho wrote:

We did not need the dog to track deer, we just brought her along for if we ever needed a deer tracked.

Tack answered that for ye'r trip.

dev110 wrote:

If you use him to search at the start it will be hard to use hand signals as the dog will be working away from you (head up or down don't know what way they hunt) and won't see the hand signal so you will need either a whistle or a verbal command to get him to recall and then the deer will hear this and move off.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

If you can train him to move on handsignals otrher than voice commands aswell would be a serious advantage.

Just from watching dogs work they don't keep looking back at you when on a trail so how would hand signals work?

Poulo6.5 wrote:

it is a specialized training and i wouldnt dare give advise on something i have never done, i am not being argumentative but i feel that there are to many people on here giving advise on things they have never done

I agree but I gave the same advise as you did on obedience, I just added about the blood trail as the pheasant trail worked for me so I see no point that it wouldn't work for the OP


I find it funny that Tack was giving advise and you said nothing to him about it but you pull me up

deeksofdoom

I think ye bitches need to have a love in or something.:rolleyes:

Hibrion

Lovely looking dog. Will make a great pet even if you never get it trained for tracking.

juice1304

Thank you to all for your comments and Pm's. your info has been very helpful and has given me alot to think about. i have some dvd's and books on the way so i'll let you know how we are progressing.
Cheers
Sam

deeksofdoom

juice1304 wrote: »

Thank you to all for your comments and Pm's. your info has been very helpful and has given me alot to think about. i have some dvd's and books on the way so i'll let you know how we are progressing.
Cheers
Sam

LMFAO some of the guys offering you advice would barely be able to tell you how many legs a dog has:D, not to mind giving you advice on the finer points of training a dog for deer shooting.:rolleyes:

My own tupence worth would be to try one of the dedicated deerstalking forums and see if anyone there would be able help you, they might have experience of this breed. As already said, get the basics right first. I would also strongly advise you that if you are a novice to go to puppy training classes, the basics for a gundog are the same as the basics for a housedog.

Glensman

dev110 wrote: »

Just from watching dogs work they don't keep looking back at you when on a trail so how would hand signals work?

I stalked with a fella that had a GWP trained to hand signals.
The dog would walk beside him and point when it got a scent, it wasn't to work the scent just point. When he was getting ready to take the shot he would move his hand, dog would drop and stay. Then he would get into position for the shot. Once the shot was taken Then the dog would work the scent and mark the deer.

deeksofdoom

dev110 wrote: »

Just from watching dogs work they don't keep looking back at you when on a trail so how would hand signals work?

I have to disagree with this statement, any of my dogs will always look for me when on to something, I haven't trained them to be like that, its just the way they are I think its because we're used to working with each other. The dogs actually look around for me as if to same 'hurry the **** up I'm on to something here'. You have to watch your dog and learn to recognise its body language.

Elegant Chaos

Hi OP
I know little/nothing about hunting, but I've lived around elkhounds for most of my life. Firstly, can I say, in general, you've made an excellent choice - elkhounds are intelligent, affectionate, well-balanced, and good with people/kids. The flip-side of their intelligence is that they can be stubborn, independent-minded and not particularly easy to train.
They are used extensively for hunting in Scandinavia and, I think, North America, and a bit of research will give you some info in this eg.http://www.elkhound.net/huntingelkhound.htm. I'm not sure if this is in keeping with your needs if you want to stalk. For example, an elkhound will not readily stay to heel and will naturally lead from the front, scenting. It's in their instinct to find and locate the elk/moose/deer and keep it at bay. Walking to heel on a lead on a suburban pavement can be challenging enough - loose in woodland, mountainside, well forget about it. My experience will be that they will point briefly and then they'll be gone. They'll come back to your sightline periodically to make sure you know where they are, but they'll always be ahead. And when they find their "prey" - in my case usually cat, other dog, squirrel, etc - they will bark and circle.
Anyhow, hope that doesn't put you off - they're the business...