A strange one - Who has the stronger case?

abouttobebanned

A lot of you may not be familiar with the Trap Challenge bet, but it's a favourite of mine and I get a lot of success out of it.

Anyway, in the Evenings, Ladbrokes sometimes do a trap challenge with three meetings. Tonight it was Swindon, Sunderland and Yarmouth.

I had 4 as a 6-4 shot so because it was 10-3 with ladbrokes I felt that it was worth a bet. Things didn't really go to plan though and 4 finished 2nd in a lot of races, beaten only a nose, head etc. Anyway, it was still going ok and as far as I was concerned, before the last race at Yarmouth it had 7 wins compared to 6's 8 wins. And then it wins the last race.

So, a dead heat yes?

No. Ladbrokes settle the bet with 6 as the winner. For some reason they don't include the last race at Yarmouth.

Now, I could accept this if Ladbrokes stated the start and finish times of the applicable races. They don't, just the start times. Nowhere does it state that the last race at yarmouth for some reason would not be included.

This is in a shop, not online. With an online situation you could at least threaten to close an account, but in a shop, once the settlers have settled, there's very little comeback.

Any thoughts?

Juwwi

First thing I taught when I read your post was that the last race at Yarmouth must'nt of been a bags race but on checking the results it was

http://www.sportinglife.com/greyhounds/results/Wednesday/Yarmouth_BAGS_2144.html

then looking at their ruels for trap challenge it says

A Trap Challenge at a BAGS meeting will be settled on the results of the BAGS races only. Any additional races at the meeting will not be included in this bet, unless specifically advertised.

http://help.ladbrokes.com/display/4/kb/article.aspx?aid=2478#gr8

so going by that I'd say you have a good case unless l've missed something.

UrbanSea

Get on to live help and ask them first does it include all races say for example every race today at the dogs.

Act like you're enquiring about it to do a future bet. Then if they say yes ask them why it didn't apply to today

UrbanSea

What's a BAGS race?

Juwwi

UrbanSea wrote: »

What's a BAGS race?

I think its a graded race not an open race but not 100% sure

abouttobebanned

Well it was actually a BEGS race.

BAGS means Bookies Afternoon Dogs. It's live virtual racing...as in created by bookies to make money, except it's real.

BEGS is Bookies Evening Greyhounds....and the the last race was indeed a BEGS race.

ForzaKid

UrbanSea wrote: »

What's a BAGS race?

A BAGS race is a Greyhound race run under the British Afternoon Greyhound Service.These races are funded by the bookmakers too.

okidoki987

I'm only throwing in a suggestion here but was the race after the closing time for them?
Check what the shop rules say.
By law they have to be on the wall or behind the counter, somewhere in the shop.
Online doesn't automatically mean it's the same for in shop.
If you don't get any further, try the betting column in The Star on Saturday and get him involved (John Martin).
Take a picture of today's one and if there's no rules stated on the screen, use it as evidence for your case.

abouttobebanned

Well, The sportinglife website seems to say that it was a BAGS race but Ladbrokes says that it wasn't. Their stance is that all BAGS races finish at 9:22pm. That would make sense as you'd imagine that's when the shops close...but...that's not stated anywhere, we're supposed to just know that.

And of course the race was featured in the Racing Post as a BAGS race.

JONJO THE MISER

Dont get me started on them shower:mad:
Conned me out of over 1k 2 years ago.

UrbanSea

What happened JJ?


abouttobebanned-ask for a link from them that confirms this. Try e mailing a greyhound body for confirmation

UrbanSea

What happened JJ?


abouttobebanned-ask for a link from them that confirms this. Try e mailing a greyhound body for confirmation

okidoki987

I know most others do the Top Trap challenges using just 2 meetings
but did you check and see if any of the others did a 3 meeting one last night?

wicklowdub

As I understand it bags & begs are races that are shown live in shops. If a race takes place either before or after shops close then its not included in the bags/begs.

abouttobebanned

wicklowdub wrote: »

As I understand it bags & begs are races that are shown live in shops. If a race takes place either before or after shops close then its not included in the bags/begs.

This is true, however, Irish customers have no way of knowing when the last race takes place. Sometimes the english shops open til 9:30. It's the ambiguity that is causing the confusion.

Juwwi

A Trap Challenge at a BAGS meeting will be settled on the results of the BAGS races only. Any additional races at the meeting will not be included in this bet, unless specifically advertised.

If it was'nt mentioned on the screen you have a good case to be paid out.

There is nothing in their rules about races after shop closing dont count.

abouttobebanned

Exactly. That's the crux of the issue.

I could write a book about things that are wrong with ladbrokes. They are, above everything else, a hungry and sneaky bookmakers. The hungry one is obvious - we all know they're generally the worst with offers, bonuses, prices, cash back specials etc. But they are also incredibly sneaky. Here's an example... If you're betting with them online and, let's say, you put €100 on a horse...say...Bomb Alaska. Grand...bet placed.

Now...let's say you want to place another bet. You click on a soccer team...or another horse...Bomb Alaska and €100 is still there in your betting slip. Eventhough you've already placed the bet. You could bet again in error if you're not paying attention, or if you think that the bet mustn't have gone through the first time.

Also, they have an in running betting service that's about 10 seconds slow depending on what has happened. I've watch horses fall and still be offered at 5-4 etc.

In Golf...if your player has a chance for a birdie, he'll shorten up immediately. If he's ploughed the ball into the trees, he'll stay at his price for about 10 minutes, hoping that someone will bet blind.

There are hundreds of little sneaky tricks like this that I know for a fact Ladbrokes use...im sure other bookmakers are guilty of some of them too.

okidoki987

But it does say

BAGS races only. Any additional races at the meeting will not be included in this bet, unless specifically advertised.

So the race after the shop closing time doesn't count.
However Shops in the UK afaik stay open later than Irish shops so on that basis alone, you might have a case.

abouttobebanned

okidoki987 wrote: »

But it does say



So the race after the shop closing time doesn't count.
However Shops in the UK afaik stay open later than Irish shops so on that basis alone, you might have a case.

On the night in question the shop in ireland closed at 6:30 and the one in England 9:25. They are guilty of not properly stating the bet and it's rules and limitations.

Juwwi

abouttobebanned wrote: »

And of course the race was featured in the Racing Post as a BAGS race.

http://www.sportinglife.com/greyhounds/results/Wednesday/Yarmouth_BAGS_2144.html



If the racingpost and sportinglife both had it as a bags race l cant see what their arguement is unless they use a different source for checking which are BAGS races.

I find the problem with bookies is the managers in shops and even telephone customer services people dont know all the rules properly.

Juwwi

abouttobebanned wrote: »

On the night in question the shop in ireland closed at 6:30 and the one in England 9:25. They are guilty of not properly stating the bet and it's rules and limitations.

Well that opens a new can of worms then if they only count races
that run while the shops are open.

abouttobebanned

They told me they couldn't pay me cause it set a dangerous precedent but instead gave me a couple of €50 free bets. I had to go very high up to get that result though.

ft9

At least you got something, fair play for not lying down. A lot of punters would have thrown that docket in the bin.