European vs American Bikes

WilcoYHF

Being a mechanical engineer I have a belief that mechanical things designed in Europe are of superior quality than those designed in the states or asia. It may be a completely unfounded belief but its in my head now. So I'm planning on buying my first road bike soon and I want to know if this is true when it comes to bikes.

I realise US and asian built bikes are more common and easier to come by but I really would like something like an Orbea, Kuota, Pinarello etc. Am I being unreasonable?

<snip>

Russman

Are they not pretty much all made in Taiwan and/or China now anyway ?

WilcoYHF

I'm sure they are. I should have said designed not manufactured.

07Lapierre

The space shuttle blew up!
Up until very recently, the Chevy Corvette was still using Leaf Spring Suspension!

TheBlaaMan

WilcoYHF wrote: »

things designed in Europe are of superior quality than those designed in the states or asia. I'm planning on buying my first road bike soon and I want to know if this is true when it comes to bikes.

I realise US and asian built bikes are more common and easier to come by but I really would like something like an Orbea, Kuota, Pinarello etc. Am I being unreasonable?

<snip>

Absolutely not !
Please see "Endorsed Bikes and Parts" in The Rules

Preferably buy something made in Belgium, France, Italy or Netherlands (well, anything but a Trek maybe...)

fazer1

Sorry no affiliation,removed the post about those gorgeous Italian bikes! Then again so are alot of the other european bikes. Not biased mind you.

kumate_champ07

Japan is the best imo

dave2pvd

07Lapierre wrote: »

Up until very recently, the Chevy Corvette was still using Leaf Spring Suspension!

No. Still does. And not much wrong with it. Other than it's an expensive way to build a suspension.

The Corvette has a fully independent suspension with transverse composite leaf springs. Very unique approach amongst today's sports cars. Now if only they could do something about the awful interior....

That's a rear transaxle above the subframe. Tied to the motor by a torque tube. Overall weight of the car is less than an M3. Nothing primitive about any of that:



Thought you might need to know

WilcoYHF

My experience of Japanese machinery is that they have mastered copying European designs and used cheaper materials, therefore less reliable. Anyway I don't know of any Japanese bikes.

So we seem to be in agreement, European bikes are better. So why are the likes of Specialized, Trek and Giant so popular, cost?

Zander1983

I've just got a carrare TDF, its excellent. bit heavier though you expect that for the price

RobFowl

Italian Steel, Belgian and Dutch Steel and Niche American builders (like Serotto) steel are ahead of the pack. For Carbon fibre its the design team thats really important. Felt, Cervelo, Ridley, Kuota,Trek (cough) and others who invest in R+D are the ones to go for.

J Madone

RobFowl wrote: »

Italian Steel, Belgian and Dutch Steel and Niche American builders (like Serotto) steel are ahead of the pack. For Carbon fibre its the design team thats really important. Felt, Cervelo, Ridley, Kuota,Trek (cough) and others who invest in R+D are the ones to go for.

How many tdf victories in the last 10 years have been on American bikes?

07Lapierre

dave2pvd wrote: »

No. Still does. And not much wrong with it. Other than it's an expensive way to build a suspension.

The Corvette has a fully independent suspension with transverse composite leaf springs. Very unique approach amongst today's sports cars. Now if only they could do something about the awful interior....

That's a rear transaxle above the subframe. Tied to the motor by a torque tube. Overall weight of the car is less than an M3. Nothing primitive about any of that:



Thought you might need to know

Thanks Dave! (A leaf spring is still a leaf spring)

crashoveroid

J Madone wrote: »

How many tdf victories in the last 10 years have been on American bikes?

2002 To 2005 Trek
2006 Pinarello
2007 Trek
2008 Cervelo (Canadian)
2009 To 2010 Trek
2011 BMC

jameverywhere

I'm planning on buying a really good touring bike ($500 to $1000 range -- that's USD) when I move back to the US in September.

I'm sure European bikes are better (the way European cars are better, yadda yadda), but what are good American brands or touring bikes that I should be looking at?

Or should I pony up more for an imported bike? ...do they even cost more over there??

(figured I would ask in this thread since it's all about brands anyhow)

doozerie

I would be very surprised if it were really as simple a case as European design being superior to American/Asian design. I'm sure that's true in certain cases, but I wouldn't think it applies as a general rule. As an example, some American tools (not just bike tools) have been considered superior to a lot of their European counterparts for years, though it's a bit more hit and miss these days - there are also some American power tool designs though that simply wouldn't be allowed to be sold in Europe for health and safety reasons (the concerns apply to mechanical aspects of the tools rather than electrical aspects) and it is debatable whether this is due to poor design or due simply to a very different approach to health and safety.

As another example, some Japanese brands of measuring tools (e.g. Mitutoyo) and socket tools (e.g. Kamaza, I think) have a reputation for being superior to many of the European and American options. Some of that might be due to superior manufacturing processes than superior design, of course, but that can be a grey area of debate.

jameverywhere

Americans are good at certain things and not good at others.

for example, they can make awesome muscle cars that go really well... in a straight line.

We also have Amish furniture, Western saddles, pretty good guns. Oh my gosh I am just perpetuating American stereotypes now. I should probably stop.

seriously tho I don't think American cars or bikes are bad. The problem is, I don't know much about American cycling culture. I don't know enough about it to know whether there'd be good designs coming out of it. There are 50 states in which the cycling culture is bound to be different, as well.

but I do know about Dutch cycling culture, and the tour de france etc., so it stands to reason that there would be more good European designs than good American ones. Like I said, tho, I don't know enough about it to say one way or another. (I got into cycling in Ireland.)


p.s. I am an American citizen... just in interest of full disclosure

Tenzor07

Well if I won the lotto I would buy this fine piece of American made/designed bike: Litespeed

Or a crazy Surly Moonlander!

Or I could just stick with my Giant TCR, a Taiwanese company, designed in the UK(mike burrows?) and made in The Netherlands!

07Lapierre

Trek, Garmin, SRAM, Oakley, .... All American and pretty damn good products too!

I suspect most bike frame, regardless of designer/manufacturer come from some factory in China or Taiwan. My Garmin 705 says on it "designed in USA, made in China"

dave2pvd

I do enjoy reading the 20 and 30 year old myths and stereotypes that folks like to preach.

Anyone care to comment on the following statements:

• Taiwan is the leader in modern high quality carbon fiber frame production
• American cars are far more reliable than European ones
• China leads the world in many steel industry disciplines
• Japan have made the best consumer electronics in the world over the last 30 years

jameverywhere

dave2pvd wrote: »

I do enjoy reading the 20 and 30 year old myths and stereotypes that folks like to preach.

Anyone care to comment on the following statements:

• Taiwan is the leader in modern high quality carbon fiber frame production
• American cars are far more reliable than European ones
• China lead the world in many steel industry disciplines
• Japan have made the best consumer electronics in the world over the last 30 years

are you saying that these are true or false?

dave2pvd

True.

Lumen

dave2pvd wrote: »

American cars are far more reliable than European ones

My Italian toaster is also far more reliable than a Russian space probe.

kuro_man

07Lapierre wrote: »

The space shuttle blew up!
Up until very recently, the Chevy Corvette was still using Leaf Spring Suspension!

Its the use of live axles is the real problem

kincsem

dave2pvd wrote: »

I do enjoy reading the 20 and 30 year old myths and stereotypes that folks like to preach.

Anyone care to comment on the following statements:

• American cars are far more reliable than European ones

The two car populations don't mix much. Perhaps American cars are traded-in for new models more often so the old vehicles have a shorter life before they are scrapped.

Tenzor07

Just to leave the subject of Cars behind for a minute!

Was just looking at the American Made "Seven Cycles" range... And more specifically the "Mud Honey pro" amazing bikes!!

Link

dave2pvd

kincsem wrote: »

The two car populations don't mix much. Perhaps American cars are traded-in for new models more often so the old vehicles have a shorter life before they are scrapped.

They mix quite a lot. Particularly on this side of the pond (USA).

And no. It's not related to trade in intervals either. Just to mileage/use.

My point is that some stereotypes are obsolete. Totally obsolete. The notion that European bikes are somehow vastly superior than, say Taiwanese is pure nonsense in this day and age. Especially when it comes to high-end carbon fiber frames, components and wheels.

I often wonder if people hanging on to such notions have ingrained biases that prevent them absorbing present reality.

So, to the OP:

WilcoYHF wrote: »

Being a mechanical engineer I have a belief that mechanical things designed in Europe are of superior quality than those designed in the states or asia. It may be a completely unfounded belief but its in my head now. So I'm planning on buying my first road bike soon and I want to know if this is true when it comes to bikes.

I realise US and asian built bikes are more common and easier to come by but I really would like something like an Orbea, Kuota, Pinarello etc. Am I being unreasonable?

<snip>

I think you are being unreasonable. It's not true.

And you'll find very few mass-produced US made bikes. Same for European. Compared with Taiwanese or Chinese-produced. You'll find plenty of 'Made in <insert Euro/Nth American country>' stickers, however.