how to queue. advice for Cork drivers.

corktina

just thought Id tell you all, as a lot of people don't seem to know, that if you are queueing for the lights or whatever, you don't need to leave a gap in front of you big enough to fit a bus in and that if you do, some poor sod can't get over the lights behind you and thus the congestion gets worse.

I expect most of you know this, but the person in the orange Seicento with a Grandons sticker on the back (and loads of others) didn't know this last night by the National Sculpture factory and if he is reading this, YOU ARE A MUPPET!

I feel better now. Thx for reading this.

Oh and would a few of you have a look at the lane markings where you swing left on to Penrose quay...the right lane is for Dublin only, you can't just swing over and go along the quays from that lane.(and then flash the lights at me when Im in your way in the correct lane (04 C Focus)

celticbest

corktina wrote: »

just thought Id tell you all, as a lot of people don't seem to know, that if you are queueing for the lights or whatever, you don't need to leave a gap in front of you big enough to fit a bus in and that if you do, some poor sod can't get over the lights behind you and thus the congestion gets worse.

I expect most of you know this, but the person in the orange Seicento with a Grandons sticker on the back (and loads of others) didn't know this last night by the National Sculpture factory and if he is reading this, YOU ARE A MUPPET!

I feel better now. Thx for reading this.

Note should be for everyone in Ireland, not just Cork!! This is happening everwhere....

EPM

That 2 lane into 3 lanes on Penrose Quay is a disaster. Most people don't realize that there are three lanes after going over the bridge. The amount of near misses on that junction...

forzacalcio

Is this where you mean?
http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=penrose+quay+cork&hl=en&ll=51.900352,-8.464007&spn=0.000612,0.0012&sll=53.401034,-8.307638&sspn=9.689965,19.665527&vpsrc=6&hnear=Penrose+Quay,+Cork,+County+Cork&t=h&z=20&iwloc=A

EPM

Yes! Middle lane is right or straight on but this usually comes as a complete suprise to the person on the far right lane and the person behind you wanting to boot straight on out of the bridge corner.

Owen

I'd be the opposite to the OP, the amount of people in Cork who enter junctions thinking they'll get through is ridiculous. Anytime in Cork on a yellow box when the lights go red, you'll have 4-5 cars blocking the entrance for cars with a green light. Nothing moves then until the next change in lights. Stupid! I'd love if they had traffic light cameras and heavily fined anyone stupid enough to do it. One car you'd think mistake, but when it's a few it just gets silly.

Padraig Mor

To be fair, at ground level the line markings turning from the bridge left onto Penrose Quay make it far from clear which is the appropriate lane on the far side of the yellow box.

Owen

corktina wrote: »

Oh and would a few of you have a look at the lane markings where you swing left on to Penrose quay...the right lane is for Dublin only, you can't just swing over and go along the quays from that lane.(and then flash the lights at me when Im in your way in the correct lane (04 C Focus)

The right lane isn't Dublin only. The left lane enters into the left lane on the quay. The right lane is for the middle, and right lanes on the quay. There used to be markings there before to that effect but they're gone now. If the left lane was for both the left and middle lanes on the quay, it would be an accident waiting to happen having people in the left moving to the middle, and people in the right moving to the far right - having everyone crossing lanes is insane.

Padraig Mor

Owen wrote: »

I'd be the opposite to the OP, the amount of people in Cork who enter junctions thinking they'll get through is ridiculous. Anytime in Cork on a yellow box when the lights go red, you'll have 4-5 cars blocking the entrance for cars with a green light. Nothing moves then until the next change in lights. Stupid! I'd love if they had traffic light cameras and heavily fined anyone stupid enough to do it. One car you'd think mistake, but when it's a few it just gets silly.

100% true! Especially Mr Mondeo man on the junction of College Road and Highfield Ave this morning.

Padraig Mor

Owen wrote: »

The right lane isn't Dublin only. The left lane enters into the left lane on the quay. The right lane is for the middle, and right lanes on the quay. There used to be markings there before to that effect but they're gone now. If the left lane was for both the left and middle lanes on the quay, it would be an accident waiting to happen having people in the left moving to the middle, and people in the right moving to the far right - having everyone crossing lanes is insane.

'Fraid not Owen (unless it's changed recently). The aerial view on Google makes it clear that the left lane on the bridge is for the left and middle lanes on the quay. As I said above, this is not at all clear from ground level however.Unless these are the markings you mean are gone (I don't go that way much these days).


This is the third or fourth time I've discussed this on Boards BTW. Maybe the council would want to make things clearer at this stage?!

Owen

Just had a look at Penrose Quay on Google Maps. The lane markings are completely obscured by the yellow box, but the right hand lane coming over the bridge clearly enters into the middle lane of the 3 on the quay. Logically, it makes more sense that the right lane enter into the middle and right lanes for safety reasons anyway.

Owen

Padraig Mor wrote: »

'Fraid not Owen (unless it's changed recently). The aerial view on Google makes it clear that the left lane on the bridge is for the left and middle lanes on the quay.

I find it hard to believe the road planners want both lanes to shift one lane to the right while making a turn. That's a crash waiting to happen.

Padraig Mor

I dunno Owen.......maybe my vision is going but the curve of the dashed line from the bridge clearly looks to me like it's lining up with the right hand one of the two sets of dashed lines on the quay (i.e. the right lane on the bridge only goes to the very right lane on the quay). Again, not obvious in a car though.

EPM

To my eyes its the left lane that expands into two. The markings of the right lane are continuous around the corner.

Owen

I can't see the safety or logic behind planning lane changes that way. It must be left lane stays left, right lane has the middle and right lanes. Everyone shifting to the right mid turn is just insane. It can't be layed out that way from a safety and common sense perspective.

Mr Benevolent

We really should have a Cork subforum.*

*I'm from Dublin, everywhere outside the airport is wilderness to me.

Owen

Maybe I'm wrong, but if I am whoever planned that corner needs to be retrained! I do clearly remember there being markings there though as a kid going to the school of music on Wellinton road twice a week. It used to be left lane left, and right lane middle and right.

forzacalcio

Owen wrote: »

Just had a look at Penrose Quay on Google Maps. The lane markings are completely obscured by the yellow box, but the right hand lane coming over the bridge clearly enters into the middle lane of the 3 on the quay. Logically, it makes more sense that the right lane enter into the middle and right lanes for safety reasons anyway.

Unless Im blind or picking you up wrong I cant see this. The right hand lane stays right and the middle and left stay left. The car on google maps is actually doing exactly what the poster is giving out about!

E39MSport

Re: Gap

To be fait it's up to the individual.

I was victim of an attempted carjack while at lights and I now always leave enough room to get myself out of trouble.

However, I think I've mitigated by driving an Estima as opposed to 4th Gen Lude

EPM

Confab wrote: »

We really should have a Cork subforum.*

*I'm from Dublin, everywhere outside the airport is wilderness to me.

And boy does it show.

voojeq

nice one

i got 2 for the dubs

1) when standing in heavy traffic done be like lemmings if the driver in front of you drives up 1 inch and stops, you dont have to do the same. Skill here is to keep constant speed without braking, which will reduce the wear on our cars and improve the car flow on the streets

2) When the light switches green try to use your imagination and think about other road users too, try to set proper speed so other drivers can pass those lights too!

Padraig Mor

Here's a post from a previous discussion on this junction (almost exactly a year ago!). The pic below makes it clear the left lane on the bridge splits into two on the quay.

Owen wrote: »

I can't see the safety or logic behind planning lane changes that way. It must be left lane stays left, right lane has the middle and right lanes. Everyone shifting to the right mid turn is just insane. It can't be layed out that way from a safety and common sense perspective.

rcdk1's post linked above also makes some sense of this - the huge majority of the people coming over the bridge will be turning right onto Ship St on the Quay, or going straight on towards Patrick's Quay, i.e. the far left lane on the quay is essentially redundant for those coming over the bridge.

corktina

the markings are there if not too clear. There are two lanes on the bridge continuing on to swing right for Dublin. The left ahnd one of which you can also go straight on on the quays from.

go have a look, the lines are there.

you can see the lines in the photo above in fct

Cedrus

In fairness for drivers who have yet to see the lines at the corner with the surprise extra lane, the two lanes on the bridge are marked with a left arrow only. They get to the corner, and if in the left going to the left or right going to the right there'so problem. Left or right to the centre is a bit of a mosh pit sometimes, but the real chaos is the procrastinators who should have got in lane on the bridge or before, but leave it till after the corner when they're suddenly surprised by the extra centre lane and have to cross two lanes. The lane mayhem actually starts back at the elysian with some people jockeying to get through five sets of lights without thinking where they'll end up.
There is the same kind of lane chaos going the other way at the corner of albert st. in front of hanover tyres with three lanes turning into four right on the corner!

corktina

corktina wrote: »

............. the National Sculpture factory .............

Never heard of that before.

Cedrus

Owen wrote: »

I'd be the opposite to the OP, the amount of people in Cork who enter junctions thinking they'll get through is ridiculous. Anytime in Cork on a yellow box when the lights go red, you'll have 4-5 cars blocking the entrance for cars with a green light. Nothing moves then until the next change in lights. Stupid! I'd love if they had traffic light cameras and heavily fined anyone stupid enough to do it. One car you'd think mistake, but when it's a few it just gets silly.

+1
On monday, trying to turn right onto the Old Youghal Rd. at Tinkers Cross, I was blocked by a big yellow Caulfields artic trying to squeeze across the lights on an amber when there wasn't room for a small car to get through. I thought that was bad enough, but when I got round the back of him, there was a punto trying to wriggle out of the way. God help the people who were trying to get out of the Old Youghal Rd.

EPM

There should be spikes in yellow boxes. When a cars stopped in one bye bye tyres.

I bet traffic would flow a lot more freely.

corktina

except for the jams caused by spiked cars of course, but I agree with the sentiment!

ballooba

I thought the over-riding principle in situations like this was that you yield to traffic on the right. This would mean that the traffic in the right hand lane has priority on the middle lane. I assumed this was the principle on motorways too, when merging/changing lanes.

corktina

how would that work? in cae i quote I was half a car ahead of the car on the right.

Cedrus

ballooba wrote: »

I thought the over-riding principle in situations like this was that you yield to traffic on the right. This would mean that the traffic in the right hand lane has priority on the middle lane. I assumed this was the principle on motorways too, when merging/changing lanes.

That is the correct principle, however, some people don't seem to realise that they're changing lanes and just lurch right swearing at the "idiot who's in my way" or they just don't look, hence, Chaos.

Leonard Hofstadter

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Here's a post from a previous discussion on this junction (almost exactly a year ago!). The pic below makes it clear the left lane on the bridge splits into two on the quay.

rcdk1's post linked above also makes some sense of this - the huge majority of the people coming over the bridge will be turning right onto Ship St on the Quay, or going straight on towards Patrick's Quay, i.e. the far left lane on the quay is essentially redundant for those coming over the bridge.

I always thought that the left lane coming up to Penrose Quay was for the left lane only on Penrose Quay and the right lane was for the middle and right lanes on Penrose Quay. I always used to blast people out of it for going up in the left lane and then changing into the middle lane going around that corner because I was so sure that that's the way the lanes were set up:o:D!

That map makes it pretty clear to my mind that the opposite is in fact the case. I won't be doing it again anyway:o. To be fair at this stage the road markings have worn away so much it is hard to know who is right now, and that yellow box certainly does not make things any easier.

Padraig Mor

captainspeed wrote: »

I always thought that the left lane coming up to Penrose Quay was for the left lane only on Penrose Quay and the right lane was for the middle and right lanes on Penrose Quay. I always used to blast people out of it for going up in the left lane and then changing into the middle lane going around that corner because I was so sure that that's the way the lanes were set up:o:D!

That map makes it pretty clear to my mind that the opposite is in fact the case. I won't be doing it again anyway:o. To be fair at this stage the road markings have worn away so much it is hard to know who is right now, and that yellow box certainly does not make things any easier.

Used to do it 'the wrong way' myself too! You know lane markings are confusing when you need a ****ing satellite view to know which way to go! :pac:

corktina

corktina wrote: »

the markings are there if not too clear. There are two lanes on the bridge continuing on to swing right for Dublin. The left ahnd one of which you can also go straight on on the quays from.

go have a look, the lines are there.

you can see the lines in the photo above in fct

Isn't there some green signs up too to show which lane folks heading to Dublin and Limerick should be in?

Cedrus

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Used to do it 'the wrong way' myself too! You know lane markings are confusing when you need a ****ing satellite view to know which way to go! :pac:

Even after seeing the satellite view and going around the corner a thousand times, you're still going to meet someone who is relying on the road markings, as they're entitled to do. The dopes who plan and execute the markings need to do a lot better.
A few years back when the Sarsfield and Bandon road roundabouts were widened for the current work, the road markings were so badly designed that they were changed two days later!

Cows Go µ

This is why I absolutely hate driving in that part of town. I hate lanes in general if I don't know the area well and even looking at the satellite is a bit confusing

ABajaninCork

Owen wrote: »

I'd be the opposite to the OP, the amount of people in Cork who enter junctions thinking they'll get through is ridiculous. Anytime in Cork on a yellow box when the lights go red, you'll have 4-5 cars blocking the entrance for cars with a green light. Nothing moves then until the next change in lights. Stupid! I'd love if they had traffic light cameras and heavily fined anyone stupid enough to do it. One car you'd think mistake, but when it's a few it just gets silly.

Lucky that crap's not in London! There's cameras at box junctions and if you're stupid enough to be caught, then it's 3 points, £80, Goodnight Vienna!

That happens at Blackpool (Leitrim St) often enough. So bloody frustrating!!!

Lutecia

RoverJames wrote: »

Isn't there some green signs up too to show which lane folks heading to Dublin and Limerick should be in?

Have a look at the streetview, there is a sign "All routes" just before the split, the you turn, then you're on your own:
http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=penrose+quay+cork&hl=en&ll=51.900352,-8.464007&spn=0.000612,0.0012&sll=53.401034,-8.307638&sspn=9.689965,19.665527&vpsrc=6&hnear=Penrose+Quay,+Cork,+County+Cork&t=h&z=20&iwloc=A

No one can genuinely blame a tourist from not using the 'correct' lane, it's really a trap. They should have markings on the road on the bridge 'get in lane' with indications. Best would be one of these overhead signs but it would have to be in the middle of the bridge so not so pretty...

AugustusMinimus

Junction in front of Paddy the Farmers in Cork.

Lane 1A and 1B going left. Lane 2 straight ahead. Lane 3 turning right.

Lane 1A and 1B are created from lane 1.

So many ****ing idiots drive up to this junction in 2 and then cross two bold white lines and a cycle lane to get into 1B. I've had a number of near misses there.


Also interesting to see the cyclist actually avoiding the cycle lane.

dudara

I'm a Cork person, learned to drive in Cork, moved to Dublin where I've had most of my driving experience. I occasionally pass through Cork when visiting family. But recently, I'm down in Cork 3-4 days a week for work, driving at rush hour.

Sweeping generality - Cork people are not great at indicating, using yellow boxes, following correct lanes etc. (Come on, I left Cork 6 years ago and I still remember which lane to take to line up for later down the road).

I've seen folks swinging into lanes here (i.e. going from far right to the far left here) without even indicating or seeming to look. (especially at Albert Quay & Penrose Quay).

It's a bit more of a casual approach to driving, but granted, the awkward road signage doesn't help matters either. Cork has worse congestion that Dublin in my opinion.

No offense intended to Cork drivers who do actually use lanes & indicators. Sadly, you're outnumbered by those that don't.

Lutecia

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Junction in front of Paddy the Farmers in Cork.

Lane 1A and 1B going left. Lane 2 straight ahead. Lane 3 turning right.

Lane 1A and 1B are created from lane 1.

So many ****ing idiots drive up to this junction in 2 and then cross two bold white lines and a cycle lane to get into 1B. I've had a number of near misses there.


Also interesting to see the cyclist actually avoiding the cycle lane.

Exactly, a bicycle lane starting from right the middle of 2 moving lanes, just after a bend... As a cyclist, I confirm, I've been pissing my pants there a few times... I mean Cork is really not cyclist friendly, a near death experience with any trip. I've been studying in Denmark, this is the dream there (and it doesn't affect motorists). Withough becoming too extreme there is probably a solution somewhere mid-way between current Ireland and Denmark or the Netherlands.

Leonard Hofstadter

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Lane 1A and 1B are created from lane 1.

That annoys the hell out of me too!

Compared to Galway, Cork people are model drivers though.

Galway people do not know how to use roundabouts (there are definitely different rules regarding exits in Galway compared to the rest of the country, only in Galway are you supposed to be in the left lane for the third exit :eek: provided the third exit is straight on or to the left, and only in Galway are you apparently supposed to be in the right lane for taking the second exit if the second exit is a two lane road (two lanes in both directions) and you want to be in the right lane :eek:), and they certainly don't know what red lights are either, it seems to me they only bother to stop if the red light has been on for at least 10 seconds. They're just s***e drivers in general. No offence to Galway people who do know how to drive, but ye are very much in the minority I'm afraid .

corktina

it used to be OK to use lane 2 for that route but that cycle lane would now preclude that I agree

zilog_jones

TBH when I saw the thread title I thought it would be about running red lights (just after they change) too. This seems to happen a lot more in Cork than anywhere else I've driven. The council would make a killing with some red light cameras, like those in London or the US.

E39MSport wrote: »

Re: Gap

To be fait it's up to the individual.

I was victim of an attempted carjack while at lights and I now always leave enough room to get myself out of trouble.

I think the problem is when you're at the front of the queue - depending on the traffic lights in question there may be an induction loop in the ground, and if your car is not covering this then the lights may not change. Some lights also have loops further down the road, probably to measure the amount of traffic waiting there.

AugustusMinimus

corktina wrote: »

it used to be OK to use lane 2 for that route but that cycle lane would now preclude that I agree

It was relined about 3 years ago. You'd think people would recognise that at this stage.

Owen

Just as an update, went through the infamous junction on Penrose Quay last night, there's now some sort of 'cut' into the tarmac which separates the left and right lanes. The left lane according to this cut in the tarmac stays left, and the right goes to the middle and right. Maybe the councils putting in some sort of marking system, or maybe it's just the crappy tarmac separating between lanes.

One things for sure though, I've tried sticking to the left lane in the hopes of getting into the middle. Screw that! It's a lot more dangerous than being in the right, and cautiously going into the middle allowing anyone on the left in instead.