Expensive repairs or buy another cheap box with wheels?

tbqfh

I have a '97 Mk4 Fiesta, NCT due in a couple of weeks. I had a garage look at it recently to see what it needs, and apparently it's not in great shape.

* New front brake discs (rust)
* New flexible brake hose somewhere
* Rust in three places along the sills
* New roll bar bushing
* Leaking rear shock absorber
* No power going to reg plate bulb holder, not bulb or fuse, probably a break in the wire

On top of all that, it's losing more oil than it should and the recent diagnosis didn't even get as far as looking into that problem. No puddle under the car and no obvious change in exhaust smell/colour.

I've had the car for around a year and a half and have had very few problems with it. Nothing a Haynes manual and eBay didn't sort out, anyway!

The garage quoted around €700 to bring it up to NCT-ready, including the usual full service items. Should I fix it or replace it?

Thanks!

johnos1984

Ignore the garage.

Nct it first and see what it fails on

mickdw

Yep spend the €50 on the test and then make a decision. All the stuff listed there could actually pass for all we know. Then the car could fail on emissions rsulting in another bill possibly making it uneconomical to fix so to spend €700 now on repairs would be absolute madness.
Imagine having spent 700 only to fail on a further expensive item - it would be money down the drain.
TBH, I would be wary to spending even a couple of hundred on that if its burning alot of oil as you say along with the other stuff. Spend the €50 anyway so you know where you stand.

dgt

Sills are the worst part of that and its still a cheap fix

Burning oil? Change it for the correct oil. 5w30 Ford approved stuff from Halfords is cheap as chips

tbqfh

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Tallon

So what if it passes the NCT?

If the garage is right and cars leaking shock obs, has rusted brakes, bushings are gone and the car has a lot of general rust, then he's driving a dangerous vehicle on the roads

You can't just ignore essential work on your car because some guy in the NCT centre gave you a piece of paper to say it passed his standards

Kevvv

Tallon wrote: »

So what if it passes the NCT?

If the garage is right and cars leaking shock obs, has rusted brakes, bushings are gone and the car has a lot of general rust, then he's driving a dangerous vehicle on the roads

You can't just ignore essential work on your car because some guy in the NCT centre gave you a piece of paper to say it passed his standards

Think you may have missed the point. Their telling him not to spend mega money on the car only to find out it may cost a lot more after the NCT.

Therefore NCT it, see what it fails on and go ahead from there. If it passes then he may well decide to fix the problems stated.

And as for the general rust, no a big issue on Fiesta's, it usually isnt found on load bearing areas.

tbqfh

You're right, but there's some shades of gray here. Nobody has every component in their car perfect all the time.

I specifically asked them which of those parts are dangerous if not fixed soon, and the answer was that none of it is dangerous *yet*. Left for another year, it'd be worse.

Bear in mind that they examined it and only gave me a list, so detail like the degree of wear on those components was lost between the garage, me scribbling it down, and later posting it on the internet. In their opinion, it isn't dangerous but won't pass the NCT.

The rust on the front brake discs, for example, is along the outer edge and not the braking surface. If there's sufficient braking action as tested by the NCT, I wouldn't say it's dangerous. Not ideal, but not dangerous. Yet.

I'll get it tested and then we'll see!

tbqfh

Kevvv wrote: »

Therefore NCT it, see what it fails on and go ahead from there. If it passes then he may well decide to fix the problems stated.

Even if it does pass without addressing some/all of those problems, is it worth spending €700 to fix a car worth €400 at most? I'm inclined to say no and jump ship, but I'm not sure...

Tallon

Kevvv wrote: »

Think you may have missed the point. Their telling him not to spend mega money on the car only to find out it may cost a lot more after the NCT.

Therefore NCT it, see what it fails on and go ahead from there. If it passes then he may well decide to fix the problems stated.

And as for the general rust, no a big issue on Fiesta's, it usually isnt found on load bearing areas.

Sorry yeah, see that point now

tbqfh wrote: »

You're right, but there's some shades of gray here. Nobody has every component in their car perfect all the time.

I specifically asked them which of those parts are dangerous if not fixed soon, and the answer was that none of it is dangerous *yet*. Left for another year, it'd be worse.

Bear in mind that they examined it and only gave me a list, so detail like the degree of wear on those components was lost between the garage, me scribbling it down, and later posting it on the internet. In their opinion, it isn't dangerous but won't pass the NCT.

The rust on the front brake discs, for example, is along the outer edge and not the braking surface. If there's sufficient braking action as tested by the NCT, I wouldn't say it's dangerous. Not ideal, but not dangerous. Yet.

I'll get it tested and then we'll see!

Rust on brakes is dangerous!!

And what is that new brake hose somewhere? If the hose goes, potentially, so do your brakes!

tbqfh

I agree that rusty brakes are dangerous, but it's not an absolute thing. The NCT records various types of braking problems in varying degrees.

I don't know to what degree that brake hose is in need of replacement. The garage said it's not dangerous yet. If they really wanted that €700 out of me, wouldn't they be saying it's more serious?

Kevvv

tbqfh wrote: »

Even if it does pass without addressing some/all of those problems, is it worth spending €700 to fix a car worth €400 at most? I'm inclined to say no and jump ship, but I'm not sure...

Well thats the thing. Theres a few things to think about

1. If no other major problems are found your looking at €700 for car in good enough nick I presume

2. The engine is burning oil, so thats a biggie

3. If you havent got the money to upgrade then repairing the car might be the best/cheapest road to take

Id say shop around and see if you can get a better deal though if you do decide to keep the car.

mickdw

That's not 700 worth of work though.

working fool

My mum has one of them
She loves the bloddy thing .
So it's up to me to keep it right .
Not sure if the nct people have copped this but the rear wheel arches are covered by a cloth type sound deadner .
It holds moisture and rusts the hell out of the floor pan , cheak for that , 4 hours welding involved fixing it .

tbqfh

Just to follow this up:

It failed the NCT, but not on all of the things the garage complained about.

* Anti-roll bar bushes worn
* Flexible brake pipes in poor condition

So, I'll get those fixed and try it again. No mention of the rusty brake discs, rust on the sills or the apparently leaking shock absorber. I watched the NCT guy check the sills carefully and then get a second opinion, so that must be fine for now.

Also, it looks like the garage lied to me about the number plate lights. They said it's not the fuse or the bulbs, and it is probably a break in the cable. That turned out to be a lie. Both bulbs were burnt out, were replaced by me, and are working fine. Clearly, they didn't check it and were just trying to inflate their labour time.

So, that's two things they lied to me about (headlight, number plate lights) that were easily disproved. I don't know about the leaking shock absorber, I don't know how to check that and I don't have equipment to lift it up safely.

Would you ever go back to a garage to challenge them on their lies? I wouldn't get anything out of it other than the satisfaction of them knowing I know that they lied and watching them squirm. Wouldn't do either of us much good though.

On a more general topic, how do you find a garage that won't lie to you?

-Corkie-

I dont get the rusty brake discs..

tbqfh

They're not that bad. The rust is on the outside edge, not the braking surface. It passed the NCT braking tests. It's not noisy, and I haven't noticed any braking trouble.

Bear in mind that a now discredited garage wanted to replace them, so that recommendation is in doubt!

-Corkie-

tbqfh wrote: »

They're not that bad. The rust is on the outside edge, not the braking surface. It passed the NCT braking tests. It's not noisy, and I haven't noticed any braking trouble.

Bear in mind that a now discredited garage wanted to replace them, so that recommendation is in doubt!

All discs go rusty after non use or if they get wet...

tbqfh

Yes, that's how rust occurs. What point are you trying to make?

-Corkie-

tbqfh wrote: »

Yes, that's how rust occurs. What point are you trying to make?

Every car is like that so there is no need to change them unless the discs are scored from very worn pads..

tbqfh

OK, sorry, so it looks like I misunderstood you when you said "I dont get the rusty brake discs.."

What did you mean?

-Corkie-

tbqfh wrote: »

OK, sorry, so it looks like I misunderstood you when you said "I dont get the rusty brake discs.."

What did you mean?

I meant I could not understand why your mechanic wanted to change them because they were rusty unless of course they were damaged..

bubbuz

Spent hundreds keeping my car ( mitsubishi galant ) on the road last year, new shocks, ball joints, brakes and loads more, just before it was due for the nct the ecu went, I got 200 euro from the breakers yard and picked up a great little vectra for 300 with nct so was only 100 out of pocket, was delighted to stop throwing good money after bad to keep the galant on the road. my advice to you is scrap the car while the price of scrap is so high.... 150 for a small car and 200 for large and buy yourself another while they are going so cheap, plenty of bargains on done deal and the likes at the mo.

tbqfh

Ah! Yes, of course, sorry for the misunderstanding.

I know exactly why they wanted to change them - they thought they'd get lots of labour time out of me.

-Corkie-

tbqfh wrote: »

Ah! Yes, of course, sorry for the misunderstanding.

I know exactly why they wanted to change them - they thought they'd get lots of labour time out of me.

Also I meant to say if you did need new discs you would need new pads aswell.

You made the right choice in testing it first..

working fool

if its only the roll bar bushings and a flexi pipe you need changed .
go to a auto factors and buy them and shop around a few garages for a price to fit them .
the independant garages would be more than happy to give you a price on fitting them .

as for the rusty brake discs !
thats crazy all brake discs have exposed bare metal ,the only way they wouldent be rusted a bit is if they where brand spanking new ,,
the only part that is rust free is the pieces in contact with the pads ,and even they can rust up slighty if not driven for a few days .

166man

If I were the OP, I'd scrap the fiesta as another poster has said get the €150 for it, then armed with €850 odd hit up the bangernomics thread. There are a huge amount of bargains to be had and most will have at least a year of NCT on them.

tbqfh

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

How do you all find garages that won't lie to you?

-Corkie-

tbqfh wrote: »

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

How do you all find garages that won't lie to you?

Recomendations for good ones.. Where are you based??

tbqfh

Thanks. Dublin 1.

dgt

dgt wrote: »

Sills are the worst part of that and its still a cheap fix

Burning oil? Change it for the correct oil. 5w30 Ford approved stuff from Halfords is cheap as chips

.... mightnt be the 1.25.

-Corkie-

tbqfh wrote: »

Thanks. Dublin 1.

Atlas tyres in Drumcondra. Ask for Paul..