Septic Tank problems and future inspections

Silent Runner

Basically our septic tank was built over 40 years ago. It has been working fine since then, emptied out once or twice max a year. But we had it emptied last month only for it to fill up nearly a week afterwards. This was before christmas so as a temporary solution I dug up around the percolation pipe entering the pipe and drilled a hole in it where it is now draining into where our street water drains away. I'm not sure where it is ending up because it was built years ago but it doesn't seem to be doing any harm.

When I drilled into the pipe a lot of think blac sludge came out before water came out. So I'm thinking of lowering the water in the tank and putting down a new percolation area as it looks like the old one is backed/clogged up.

But I'm thinking if I'm going to put this much work into something, should we look at getting a new septic tank altogether? Our septic tank is 2 meters away from the site boundary including what you would call a percolation area seems to be draining into the adjacent, which is abandoned/unuseable.

I am aware of regulations and planning procedures for new septic tank systems, as I studied Environmental science and I've some experience in construction, and I know our tank is not compliant with new regualations. There is only one other place I can think of where the septic tank would be in line with current regulations and slope requirements, but it will more than likely require a raised percolation area and the tank being relativle close to the house.

Has anyone any idea what are the typical costs for installing a new tank/percolation system? I thought about doing it myself as I know a lot of the technical details, but it's probably a silly idea so I better leave it to the experts:o

Also does anyone know how the new inspections will effect tanks built 40+ years ago whic are working fine? Say if they are not in line with current guidelines but are working perfectly fine.

Also we are not located in a sensitive location, no rivers/lakes near by or spring wells for drinking water.


I think I've rambled on too much. But my options are either
(A) Build a new percolation area for the existing tank
or
(B) Get in a new system altogether.

rayjdav

ANY works you undertake to your septic tank OR percolation area requires permission. Not a job you can just go and do without permission.

You will have to adhere to the newer EPA Manual now too as you will need a site specific test carried out so the chance of just getting a new tank and putting it down will not be an option. This test is hard to get results for septic tank, together with the new directive of the DoEHLG that all new systems from Jan 2012 must be treeatment systems.

Cost for system obviously depends on what Engineer specifies is suitable for your site. Anywhere between 2-8K for the systems, the perc areas are the cheap and easy part.

No one knows exactly what just yet is the requirement of this new test so why not wait it out and see what the story is before you go spend €€ and it may be in vain???? If your system can hold it out till then...

Btw, I assume when you said the effluent is now draining away where your streetwater is running too, please don't tell me this is to a public system, or is it your own on site sw soakpit????:eek: I'd leave it to the pros to fix by the sounds of things.....:D

Silent Runner

rayjdav wrote: »

ANY works you undertake to your septic tank OR percolation area requires permission. Not a job you can just go and do without permission.

You will have to adhere to the newer EPA Manual now too as you will need a site specific test carried out so the chance of just getting a new tank and putting it down will not be an option. This test is hard to get results for septic tank, together with the new directive of the DoEHLG that all new systems from Jan 2012 must be treeatment systems.

Cost for system obviously depends on what Engineer specifies is suitable for your site. Anywhere between 2-8K for the systems, the perc areas are the cheap and easy part.

No one knows exactly what just yet is the requirement of this new test so why not wait it out and see what the story is before you go spend €€ and it may be in vain???? If your system can hold it out till then...

Btw, I assume when you said the effluent is now draining away where your streetwater is running too, please don't tell me this is to a public system, or is it your own on site sw soakpit????:eek: I'd leave it to the pros to fix by the sounds of things.....:D

Really don't know what I was thinking trying to make a DIY job out of this:pac:


It's draining into a soak pit at the moment, not conected to and public works. I had been worried about letting it into the soak pit or not, whether it could take it or not. But it's doing fine, not over loading and I don't see anything poping up anywhere else on the site so it must be a good soak pit. But I can't really leave the way it is now, I might just cange to soak pit pipes and perc area and let it drain into this soak pit in the lather stage.

I've heard a lot of stuff come out about the septic tank inspections or how they are going to be carried out. I wasn't sure what they would do with systems that are too close to a site boundry, I guess if it's working fine then there's no need to have it in line with current guidelines.

prettygurrly

Silent Runner wrote: »

Also we are not located in a sensitive location, no rivers/lakes near by or spring wells for drinking water.

With your experience in Environmental Science are you sure that you're not affecting groundwater down the way? In my experience, very few people know what is happening under their own house. After speaking to a lot of farmers in other projects even they do not realise that they may affect the groundwater further down hydraulic head from them.

Your tank sounds strange in the fact that you have been well maintaining it yet it filled up suddenly. Septic tanks, essentially settlement tanks in the main, will keep working fine as along as they are desludged, maybe look into the reason why your tank has blocked up? My parents tank had a concrete block wreck the inflow. My dad thinks its from when the house was being built back in 1970s and the builders just left loads of rubbish in the front garden that eventually dislodged and then broke the inflow. Dad's a civil engineer so he just got some fellas to dig down to the tank and fix it. Works fine now...

p.s I'm an environmental scientist too, <SNIP>

Mod edit: We dont really need a CV posted. Please read the forum charter particularly Section 4.2

PaleRider

1. Be aware that your soil at ground level is contaminated with raw sewage/effluent. Children and pets walking on this is not safe.
2. It's likely this problem was a long time in the making. Percolation area/ but most likely soak pit not working for extended period.

My best advice is to contact your local council who will have a list of Site Assessors who will advice on the best course of action. An Assessor who has has carried out assessments in the area would be best. Septic tanks are always the best solution - subject to suitable existing soil. At this time it's not clear what requirements will be placed on home-owners with regard to existing older tanks.


I believe you should install new tank/treatment system with new percolation area if you have the space on your site.



Check out (EPA.ie) 2009 manual Waster water systems for single houses.

tred

PaleRider wrote: »

1. Be aware that your soil at ground level is contaminated with raw sewage/effluent. Children and pets walking on this is not safe.
2. It's likely this problem was a long time in the making. Percolation area/ but most likely soak pit not working for extended period.

My best advice is to contact your local council who will have a list of Site Assessors who will advice on the best course of action. An Assessor who has has carried out assessments in the area would be best. Septic tanks are always the best solution - subject to suitable existing soil. At this time it's not clear what requirements will be placed on home-owners with regard to existing older tanks.


I believe you should install new tank/treatment system with new percolation area if you have the space on your site.



Check out (EPA.ie) 2009 manual Waster water systems for single houses.

Agreed, get this done right. A DIY job only cost you more in the long run. Buy yourself a precast tank and get a local guy to dig out and prepare a percolation area. id say, 2 grand to 2500 grand should go a long way.

FroJoe

rayjdav wrote: »

ANY works you undertake to your septic tank OR percolation area requires permission. Not a job you can just go and do without permission.

You will have to adhere to the newer EPA Manual now too as you will need a site specific test carried out so the chance of just getting a new tank and putting it down will not be an option.

Banned for 6 months for giving highly dangerous advice which:
1. blatently ignores statutory laws
2. poses a highly significant risk of ground water pollution.

sydthebeat

fealeranger

I got a perculation done in the last 4 months and it is very long drawn out process but it was for new planning permission. You would be better off to contact your local council and they have the approved list of perculators a PaleRider said. I don't know about applying for planning for this as you are trying to make your sewage system better or more efficient or what ever you want to call it but you need to have the correct engineer appointed by the council.

bbam

I wouldn't go mad just yet.
There was an article in the farmers journal last week where the minister confirmed that old tanks will not be expected to meet current standards. It also seemed to say that remedial works would not require planning.
This would cut down on costs.
On the phone so I can't look for a link, I'll see later.

Minister Hogan

''No new standards are being introduced and there is no question of imposing of EPA's 2009 Code on older properties'' the Minister confirms. ''The State will simply seek to establish if the tank is working or not. In the small number of cases where some work may be necessary, no planning permission will be required''.

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/site/farming-No-septic-tank-inspection-in-2012-14381.html

My advice is get an experienced person in to evaluate the problem, chances are the percolation requires removing/replacing, not a nice or easy job but allot cheaper than replacing the whole system...

pai496

Hi Silent Runner, first of all, just to say I'm a chartered surveyor who has worked in the area of repairs to treament plants for almost 15 years now. This problem that you're experiencing is very common in sewage treatment systems installed prior to the 1990s when newer more efficient systems were designed and became more widespread.

Your system is basically a separation unit rather than today's more sophisticated treatment plants. The unit you've described is designed to separate the wastewater solids from the effluent but also allows for anaerobic bacterial breakdown of the waste before passing through to the percolation area and is perfectly fit for purpose if installed and maintained properly.

The key elements of this system are the inlet and outlet pipes, if they are installed properly, the tank will be fine (assuming the tank itself is an appropriate size). After working on countless systems like this, the source of the problem commonly relates to these pipes and if the problem isn't spotted and repaird early enough, untreated sludge can enter the percolation area and clog it up.

Unfortunately, without a thorough investigation, it's impossible to determine what the extent of repairs required will be. An investigation of the system should not cost you anything and will let you know what works are required. I'm not sure where you're located, but if you're near Kildare, we could take a look and give you an opinion.