Three Broadband B260a and CCTV DVR

s_gr

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone has successfully used the B260a 3g router to connect to a cctv dvr. The dvr has ddns on it so the dynamic ip isnt an issue but i have read that there are problems with three. Does the router keep the connection live all the time or just on demand. This is an issue when trying to remotely connect.

Any info/help on this would be great before i go down the route of purchasing the b260a and spending hours on it only to find out its a non runner.

jor el

Monitoring a CCTV over a 3G connection is quite simply not going to work. It's just not suitable. There have been other threads on this, it always fails.

Other thread.

kfdb

jor el wrote: »

Monitoring a CCTV over a 3G connection is quite simply not going to work. It's just not suitable. There have been other threads on this, it always fails.

Other thread.

With respect, this isn't strictly true. Midband connections have their issues and are a poor second to fixed line or FWA access but it is it possible.

There is plenty of CCTV monitoring done via cellular for covert, cash-in-transit or other instances where fixed line just isn't available.

The (primary) issue isn't the radio access network - its the ISP edge that applies a NAT, a transparent proxy and all manner of other traffic management features.

jor el

kfdb wrote: »

With respect, this isn't strictly true. Midband connections have their issues and are a poor second to fixed line or FWA access but it is it possible.

It's not an always on connection, and never will be. It's not suited to monitoring at all. It might work sometimes, but it's not suited to it.

kfdb

jor el wrote: »

It's not an always on connection, and never will be. It's not suited to monitoring at all. It might work sometimes, but it's not suited to it.

In your view, is monitoring of a mobile asset just impossible? Is, say, a vehicle monitorable? And, if it is, why can't the same approach be taken to a static CCTV install where fixed service is too expensive or just plain unavailable? By someone willing to accept the nature of the medium?

I've checked a few of my telemetry sites to find that they've remained connected for 70-80 hours at a time with sub-5 second outages between sessions (which I cause at my RADIUS by enforcing a session-limit so I can gather sensible CDR's). I've got fixed sites that perform worse over xDSL. So which of these mediums is always on?

I'm not trying to suggest that cellular is *better* than fixed but to say its totally unsuitable for monitoring is somewhat contradicted by the existance of a huge M2M/SCADA/Telemetry industry that is squarely focused on cellular.

The problem isn't cellular, its people trying to do monitoring on the cheap. A Three usb modem on pre-pay is no more a monitoring solution than a cheap DSL provider reselling a bitstream service.

dreadnought

jor el wrote: »

Monitoring a CCTV over a 3G connection is quite simply not going to work. It's just not suitable. There have been other threads on this, it always fails.

Other thread.

works fine for me now with a foscam IP camera - obviously the external IP address is not static but the cameras DDNS updater handles that. As others have said it is not perfect but it does work for me. for the guy I set it up for he checks the camera fairly regularly through an app on his phone and usage of bandwidth is in the region of 7.5GB. i would be wary of the DVR constantly broadcasting as that would easily eat through the data allowance.

Take_Her_Handy

s_gr wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone has successfully used the B260a 3g router to connect to a cctv dvr. The dvr has ddns on it so the dynamic ip isnt an issue but i have read that there are problems with three. Does the router keep the connection live all the time or just on demand. This is an issue when trying to remotely connect.

Any info/help on this would be great before i go down the route of purchasing the b260a and spending hours on it only to find out its a non runner.

I have my ip wifi CCTV going over the B260a!! Got a friend to install it and yes it does work!!

The connection turning off is due to a setting called PPP Connection settings thats in Quick Setup and you can set it up either On Demand, Manual or Auto, its through this that you can set it to always be on or just when needed!!

Hope this helps, It's on topic :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

s_gr

Take_Her_Handy wrote: »

I have my ip wifi CCTV going over the B260a!! Got a friend to install it and yes it does work!!

The connection turning off is due to a setting called PPP Connection settings thats in Quick Setup and you can set it up either On Demand, Manual or Auto, its through this that you can set it to always be on or just when needed!!

Hope this helps, It's on topic :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hi,

So i should be able to connect the dvr to the B260a router on three network, open tcp port and setup ddns address for the dynamic address. I was under the impression that the ip's three give out arent routable/public ips. Can anyone confirm what i am trying will work.

baords dyslexic

s_gr wrote: »

Hi,

So i should be able to connect the dvr to the B260a router on three network, open tcp port and setup ddns address for the dynamic address. I was under the impression that the ip's three give out arent routable/public ips. Can anyone confirm what i am trying will work.

Depends on the APN

3ireland.ie > non routable private IP, APN used mainly for mobile phones

3internet > public routable IP, Correct APN for Mobile Broadband use.

The B260a on 3 should be preconfigured with the 3internet APN so nothing to change.

s_gr

Has anyone noticed problems with 3internet apn issuing 10. private ip addresses in the last few days instead of a public routable ip address?

The Glass Key

s_gr wrote: »

Has anyone noticed problems with 3internet apn issuing 10. private ip addresses in the last few days instead of a public routable ip address?

There was a tread about it in the talk to three forum Private ip addressing recently, but the OP didn't bother posting the resolution (or otherwise).

lim1

This a huge problem with three dongles. I have sites using 3 dongles for remote cctv access as well.
I rang three at first pretended didn't know what I was talking about but eventually got passed on to a manager who said my account would be updated to public dynamic ip, said would take 24-48 for setting to happen .but would not give me the new apn setting.(this was not a prob with 02.)
2 hrs later received a txt from three saying we need to investigate your case further. we ll update you in three working days, sry for inconvenience.
Anyone any update on new three apn settings??

The Glass Key

I check the IP address I get every time I do a reboot and so far with the 3internet APN I've not had a private network address (in 5+years). I don't know when this problem started but I reboot on average twice a day, sometimes I can keep a connection for about 5 days but then I'll find I need to reboot a dozen times or more in a day. Wondering if this is a site specific problem?

adne

lim1 wrote: »

This a huge problem with three dongles. I have sites using 3 dongles for remote cctv access as well.
I rang three at first pretended didn't know what I was talking about but eventually got passed on to a manager who said my account would be updated to public dynamic ip, said would take 24-48 for setting to happen .but would not give me the new apn setting.(this was not a prob with 02.)
2 hrs later received a txt from three saying we need to investigate your case further. we ll update you in three working days, sry for inconvenience.
Anyone any update on new three apn settings??

Im having the same issue, were you able to resolve this?

termon8r

Hi Guys,

Any luck resolving this problem?

I have an ip camera setup with a router and a three dongle that my brother-in-law uses during the calving season. It worked quite well last year but did require a reboot every few days.

In the process or setting it up again this year and noticed that three must have introduced some type of NAT and hence I am unable to remotely access the camera.

Any ideas?

Thanks

The Glass Key

termon8r wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Any luck resolving this problem?

I have an ip camera setup with a router and a three dongle that my brother-in-law uses during the calving season. It worked quite well last year but did require a reboot every few days.

In the process or setting it up again this year and noticed that three must have introduced some type of NAT and hence I am unable to remotely access the camera.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Thats right three have made some changes but you should get a public IP address on the router if you reboot a few times. Ususal caveat you need to use the 3internet APN.

From my notes 3 have started using a couple of IP address ranges they haven't used in the past,
178.167.254.0 - 178.167.254.255 ~ 250 < reported in use with NAT (shared IP)
178.167.255.0 - 178.167.255.127 ~ 125 < reported in use with NAT (shared IP)
so if you have one of those even with the 3internet APN expect NAT.

Strange thing is this only seems to be happening in some areas. If you get any different IP addresses and NAT or have any other ideas let us all know.

watty

kfdb wrote: »

I'm not trying to suggest that cellular is *better* than fixed but to say its totally unsuitable for monitoring is somewhat contradicted by the existance of a huge M2M/SCADA/Telemetry industry that is squarely focused on cellular.

Usually GSM, 3G less reliable. Intermittent, works best when remote site does scheduled reporting. Usually low bandwidth (1/1000th of video). Sometimes X.25.

Any cellular system, especially 3G is very very poor and unreliable for remote video. Failure of connect on demand from a client is very likely too as only connection initiated from the Mobile client is assured* for other than voice calls.

Mobile/Cellular Internet data is basically dialup. The X.25 on GSM is far more reliable but it is very very slow, not even the 14.4K "analogue" modem dialup emulation of GSM.

(*Actually not even assured as there is no guarantee of connection at all in any mode from the Mobile Phone or Mobile even if there is a good signal as the capacity per sector is very small.)
There is no assurance of DVR video access working sensibly over 3G, reporting and alarm condition will mostly work. But with 3G there is cell breathing etc and what connects today might not connect tomorrow without many attempts.

kfdb

watty wrote: »

Any cellular system, especially 3G is very very poor and unreliable for remote video. Failure of connect on demand from a client is very likely too as only connection initiated from the Mobile client is assured* for other than voice.

Fair enough. I guess the 400+ CCTV-over-3G locations I manage comms for are freak outliers. We even (whisper it) do site to site WAN connections over cellular.

FWIW, all the Irish carriers are introducing CGNAT across their consumer APNs. This does away with what little ability there was to initiate connections from the public Internet to cellular connected devices. It's also breaking PPTP VPNs in interesting ways.

K.

watty

You don't say if PVR or remote viewer initiated.
You don't state the video bandwidth.

Viewing short bursts of PVR hosted on real broadband with a 3G client is more feasible. But at any decent quality only about 2 to 6 people per sector.


If it's true you have 400+ CCTV or 3G that is indictment of the total failure of successive Governments Broadband and infrastructure policy.

Dublin City council couldn't run 300 bps traffic lights reliably on 3G.

Mobile was never intended for Public connection to essentially Server Devices or sadly even for VPN. The clue is in the name. It's for MOBILE. It's mis-sold in Ireland. Also the fact that mobile data is hugely subsidised by overcharging on Mobile Voice and especially SMS has dramatically held back investment in real Broadband.

I'm not making up my caveats as I worked many years in Security video, Broadcast video and ISP R&D. I'm not saying it's impossible, but stupid to rely on it.

kfdb

watty wrote: »

You don't say if PVR or remote viewer initiated.
You don't state the video bandwidth.

It's for multiple end customers so its a combination. Some do stream intermittently - I issue static private IP to the mobile stations so they are free to communicate with their equipment as they see fit.

watty wrote: »

If it's true you have 400+ CCTV or 3G that is indictment of the total failure of successive Governments Broadband and infrastructure policy.

I'd have little argument with any criticism of the Irish governments broadband policy (or lack thereof). Ubiquitous quality broadband would be a reasonably cheap way to boost competitiveness and differentiate the Irish economy. Given our small size and excellent backhaul/peering, it would be cheap.

However, there are CCTV scenarios that need to be wireless - vacant buildings, covert CCTV, in-vehicle CCTV and telemetry. Not to mention backup - given bitstreams performance in Q4, cellular WAN backup is a pretty hot area.

watty wrote: »

Dublin City council couldn't run 300 bps traffic lights reliably on 3G.

If you are familiar with that project, you may know that there were other, non-technical challenges. Cellular seems to have no issues with other SCADA type applications at low bandwidth. I'd make the case that its significantly more suitable (from a resilience perspective) than copper path. Perhaps tait radio has it beat but I'd defend cellular in that space. I've several thousand low data M2M SIMs in service in Ireland alone.

watty wrote: »

Mobile was never intended for Public connection to essentially Server Devices or sadly even for VPN. The clue is in the name. It's for MOBILE. It's mis-sold in Ireland. Also the fact that mobile data is hugely subsidised by overcharging on Mobile Voice and especially SMS has dramatically held back investment in real Broadband.

And IP was never intended for security. Technology is funny like that, turning up in places other than it's expected segments. I'd certainly agree that the business models and spectrum allocations are sub optimal but they are the business environment I have to operate in.

watty wrote: »

I'm not making up my caveats as I worked many years in Security video, Broadcast video and ISP R&D. I'm not saying it's impossible, but stupid to rely on it.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that score. Others on this almost zombie thread have indicated that it was impossible - I offer the opinion that it isn't impossible. As for reliability, if a single copper path from a single exchange is anyone's idea of reliability, I offer the opinion that a multi operator, multi bearer cellular solution is more available at more effective locations.

I will repeat what I've said previously - it's impossible to do it cheaply. A pre-pay usb modem in an $80 eBay router will be a painful experience. Cellular CCTV (or any SCADA over cellular) is an expensive business. Boards is full of people that have tried to do it cheap and only some have been successful.

K

watty

No, not impossible. But far from a good solution.

Frustrating isn't it?

Sinclair Products in 1960s to 1990s prime example of how all goes pear shaped when you try to do it TOO cheap.

termon8r

Three support team sorted this out for me yesterday so i am back up and running.

bjp1967

termon8r wrote: »

Three support team sorted this out for me yesterday so i am back up and running.

A friend wants to try something similar on his farm, can your brother view remotely via smartphone app as well, or do you know if possible.

termon8r

Yep, it is possible to view remotely via smartphone.

The problem is that you need to have good 3G coverage where the camera is positioned and of course on your smartphone when you are viewing the camera. This is a common problem in rural areas but something we just have to accept until the 3G coverage improves.