Clarification

redout

Hi,

Couple of questions I would appreciate if someone could clear up.

1. When overtaking joggers/cyclists/a line of parked cars should I only indicate for the initial movement out or do I keep indicating until I have passed the joggers/cyclists/a line of parked cars ?

2. Also in relation to the above, should I still indicate if the road is wide enough (single lane road, particularly housing estates) and I do not pass over the centre line or middle of the road if no centre line? Common sense says yes though would appreciate if someone could confirm that.

3. ROTR states if no line then you stop at the STOP sign. Should I still stop at the sign when it is several metres back from the corner and then proceed to creep/peep? Some of the signs in the Finglas estates are like that and it is impossible to see around the corners from the sign.

4. Indicate when turning into a parking spot i.e. at the test centre? I would imagine so as that is what I have always done.

5. According to ROTR blind spot check for moving off, changing lanes, overtaking, joining motorway from a slip road, turning right from a major road onto a minor road, passing pedestrians, cyclists, horse riders or other road users or parked vehicles. I would also add reverse around corner and the turnabout. Is there anymore?

Is it really practical to look over your shoulder every time you turn right? I usually just do the mirror, signal, mirror and have never been pulled up on it.

Thx

**Timbuk2**

This is what I'd do, but I'm not a driving instructor so somebody more informed than me may come along and have better ideas!

redout wrote: »

1. When overtaking joggers/cyclists/a line of parked cars should I only indicate for the initial movement out or do I keep indicating until I have passed the joggers/cyclists/a line of parked cars ?

2. Also in relation to the above, should I still indicate if the road is wide enough (single lane road, particularly housing estates) and I do not pass over the centre line or middle of the road if no centre line? Common sense says yes though would appreciate if someone could confirm that.

In both these cases, I would indicate right and keep indicating right for the whole manoeuvre. It doesn't really matter if you cross the centre line or not - don't feel like you should stay inside the centre line if it'll mean passing uncomfortably close to something. For example, if it's a dashed white line, you can see the way is clear, you can and should move right over the line to give the cyclist plenty of room.
However, be careful if you are indicating right that there are no right turns up ahead - as indicating right in this case could be seen as a misleading signal (imagine there was a car waiting to emerge from that side road - they may see your indicator and think you are going to turn into that road).

redout wrote: »

3. ROTR states if no line then you stop at the STOP sign. Should I still stop at the sign when it is several metres back from the corner and then proceed to creep/peep? Some of the signs in the Finglas estates are like that and it is impossible to see around the corners from the sign.

Yes, exactly like you said. Stop at the line (if there is no line, stop at the sign), then peep/creep up until you can get a good view, then move off when it is safe to do so.

redout wrote: »

4. Indicate when turning into a parking spot i.e. at the test centre? I would imagine so as that is what I have always done.

Yes, definitely indicate - benefits other cars and pedestrians that may be in the car park!

redout wrote: »

5. According to ROTR blind spot check for moving off, changing lanes, overtaking, joining motorway from a slip road, turning right from a major road onto a minor road, passing pedestrians, cyclists, horse riders or other road users or parked vehicles. I would also add reverse around corner and the turnabout. Is there anymore?

Is it really practical to look over your shoulder every time you turn right? I usually just do the mirror, signal, mirror and have never been pulled up on it.

That's everything I can think of. The blind spot check while turning right is important, so don't leave it out. You aren't really looking behind you as such, you are just looking to your right - let your peripheral vision do the actual checking behind. It's mainly used in situations where you have to move road position to turn right - if you are changing road position (e.g. going from driving in the centre of lane to driving just left of the centreline [the position for turning right], check your rear view mirror, right mirror, and right blindspot just before you adjust your position - there could be a bicycle or motorbike which may be overtaking you. Also remember that if you are moving into one of those 'right-turn lanes' to do the exact same - cars can sometimes move out into these too early and drive across the hatch markings to get there, so you want to make sure the way is clear before moving into this right-turn holding lane.

redout

That is great. One more question. If turning on to a regional or local road i.e. R104 and there is no speed sign shown, do I assume that the speed limit is automatically 80km/h?

**Timbuk2**

Hmm, that's a good question, I'd probably say... it depends.

Firstly, there should be a sign when you turn onto a road.
In the case of a T-Road, generally there is a speed limit sign just before you get to the stop sign of the road you are currently on - this sign indicates the speed limit of the road you are about to turn on.

While R roads are usually 80km/h, this isn't always the case - often R roads can go through villages / built up areas and may have a reduction in speed to 60km/h or 50km/h. Sometimes R roads can have speed limits of 100km/h (numerous examples of this in Louth, for example) - this happens a lot on roads that were previously N roads before a motorway opened, demoting the old road to an R class road.

This is an example of a random T-road onto the R104 showing the location of the speed limit signs (and that in fact, the limit is not always 80km/h).

If there's a part of the R104 you are unsure about that you think you may be asked to drive on in the test, you can ask your instructor as he/she will have a lot of local knowledge about roads on the test route, or check on google streetview where the limit changes from 80 to 60, from 60 to 50, etc.

redout

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Hmm, that's a good question, I'd probably say... it depends.

Firstly, there should be a sign when you turn onto a road.
In the case of a T-Road, generally there is a speed limit sign just before you get to the stop sign of the road you are currently on - this sign indicates the speed limit of the road you are about to turn on.

While R roads are usually 80km/h, this isn't always the case - often R roads can go through villages / built up areas and may have a reduction in speed to 60km/h or 50km/h. Sometimes R roads can have speed limits of 100km/h (numerous examples of this in Louth, for example) - this happens a lot on roads that were previously N roads before a motorway opened, demoting the old road to an R class road.

This is an example of a random T-road onto the R104 showing the location of the speed limit signs (and that in fact, the limit is not always 80km/h).

If there's a part of the R104 you are unsure about that you think you may be asked to drive on in the test, you can ask your instructor as he/she will have a lot of local knowledge about roads on the test route, or check on google streetview where the limit changes from 80 to 60, from 60 to 50, etc.

Aye, its a tough one. The road which I am referring to is Collins avenue (R103) as you exit the N1. There is no speed sign showing the whole way down to the Ballymun Road. In fact even as you cross the Ballymun Road on to Glasnevin avenue down into Finglas Village there is still no sign. I was thinking 50km/h would be a safe bet with all the housing.

MascotDec85

redout wrote: »

Aye, its a tough one. The road which I am referring to is Collins avenue (R103) as you exit the N1. There is no speed sign showing the whole way down to the Ballymun Road. In fact even as you cross the Ballymun Road on to Glasnevin avenue down into Finglas Village there is still no sign. I was thinking 50km/h would be a safe bet with all the housing.

Generally, if the road is in a built up area with street lights the limit is 50. I'm pretty sure that road is 50

redout

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Generally, if the road is in a built up area with street lights the limit is 50. I'm pretty sure that road is 50

Yeah, that is what is was thinking but wasnt 100%. I think the highest speed you can attain around Finglas is only 60km/h on certain parts of the N2. The rest of the time is nearly always 50km/h in and around that area.

MascotDec85

redout wrote: »

Yeah, that is what is was thinking but wasnt 100%. I think the highest speed you can attain around Finglas is only 60km/h on certain parts of the N2. The rest of the time is nearly always 50km/h in and around that area.

Yeah and that's on the outskirts, the closer you come in the lower it gets

ADIDriving

Lots of good answers from Timbuk2 (Have you considered a career in driving instruction?). A few things I would add; You don't need to signal past a line of parked cars in a residential area. The check for the blind spot when "manouvering" ( moving off, turnabouts and reversing ) is a turn of the head and body looking 150 degrees behind you. The check for lane changes, junctions, etc is 90 degrees to the side as well as the mirrors. The idea is to look at the space you are moving into to see if it is clear. So on a right turn onto a minor side road you are checking for pedestrians ect. crossing the new road. The same also applies on left turns. People frequently get caught for observation turning left at T-junctions because the are only looking to the right, see that it is clear and move forward before looking left.

Collins avenue is a 50kmh speed limit. Changes in speed zones are always marked. The problem is that you need to remember that you have been is a 50k limit for the previous few minutes. Finglas test routes are all 50 kmh except the N2 and a little bit on the Griffith avenue extension.

redout

ADIDriving wrote: »

Lots of good answers from Timbuk2 (Have you considered a career in driving instruction?). A few things I would add; You don't need to signal past a line of parked cars in a residential area. The check for the blind spot when "manouvering" ( moving off, turnabouts and reversing ) is a turn of the head and body looking 150 degrees behind you. The check for lane changes, junctions, etc is 90 degrees to the side as well as the mirrors. The idea is to look at the space you are moving into to see if it is clear. So on a right turn onto a minor side road you are checking for pedestrians ect. crossing the new road. The same also applies on left turns. People frequently get caught for observation turning left at T-junctions because the are only looking to the right, see that it is clear and move forward before looking left.

Collins avenue is a 50kmh speed limit. Changes in speed zones are always marked. The problem is that you need to remember that you have been is a 50k limit for the previous few minutes. Finglas test routes are all 50 kmh except the N2 and a little bit on the Griffith avenue extension.

That is right, the stretch by Tolka Rovers football grounds.

So just the initial signal to move out when passing a line of parked cars or not signal at all?

redout

Driver Theory Test 4th edition 2009

Somewhat related. I dont see how you could be marked down for giving a brief indication to move out.

Q. ABMW0342
If you are facing into a narrow gap between oncoming traffic and vehicles parked on your left. You should...

Indicate right, stopping if necessary, until the oncoming traffic has passed by.

ADIDriving

redout wrote: »

That is right, the stretch by Tolka Rovers football grounds.

So just the initial signal to move out when passing a line of parked cars or not signal at all?

That is exactly the spot.

There are situations when you would signal while waiting, a little flick of the indicator would sometimes be ideal for moving out past a parked car, other times it is just not needed and sometimes it can be misleading and get you a mark.