What will happen to the now disused train stations On the old Waterford-Rosslare line

RobitTV

The line between Waterford and Rosslare had its last service on 18 September 2010. It was operated by a four-car 2700 railcar set instead of the more regular two-car set.

Disused stations - Campile, Ballycullane halt, Wellingtonbridge railway station and Bridgetown halt.

I Think its Unacceptable there are now 4 stations disused.

Does anyone know what will happen to them? or any ideas what should be done?

foggy_lad

RobitTV wrote: »

The line between Waterford and Rosslare had its last service on 18 September 2010. It was operated by a four-car 2700 railcar set instead of the more regular two-car set.

Disused stations - Campile, Ballycullane halt, Wellingtonbridge railway station and Bridgetown halt.

I Think its Unacceptable there are now 4 stations disused.

Does anyone know what will happen to them? or any ideas what should be done?

The way Irish rail operates there could still be people employed in those stations:D but what would you do with a few old rotten out-houses and buildings that are too dilapidated to open fully to the public?

Niles

AFAIK IÉ are under obligation from the NTA to maintain the line itself in usable condition, not sure if that applies to the actual stations.

As regards staffing, Bridgetown, Ballycullane and Campile were without staff long before closure. I believe Wellington Bridge now only has a signalman on the rare occasion that the line is used for PW movements/stock transfers.

L1011

There is virtually nothing at any of them to constitute a "station", and hence nothing to be repurposed.

Judgement Day

I wonder has the OP ever travelled the line? It was rationalized in much the same fashion as the Germans did to the Russian rail system as they retreated west - the only station with a building was Wellington Bridge. For a number of years Ballycullane operated without even a nameboard.



Campile 'station' courtesy of Wikipedia.

foggy_lad

Judgement Day wrote: »

I wonder has the OP ever travelled the line? It was rationalized in much the same fashion as the Germans did to the Russian rail system as they retreated west - the only station with a building was Wellington Bridge. For a number of years Ballycullane operated without even a nameboard.



Campile 'station' courtesy of Wikipedia.

But what kind of buildings would you need for a handful of passengers a week? Why waste money on a line that was doomed to close for years? Think of the criticism if Irish Rail had built little stations and installed ticket machines and paved the platforms at all those stations, there would be uproar and you would be the loudest of the critics.

L1011

foggy_lad wrote: »

But what kind of buildings would you need for a handful of passengers a week? Why waste money on a line that was doomed to close for years? Think of the criticism if Irish Rail had built little stations and installed ticket machines and paved the platforms at all those stations, there would be uproar and you would be the loudest of the critics.

There WERE station buildings, Irish Rail removed them for the most part.

Judgement Day

foggy_lad wrote: »

But what kind of buildings would you need for a handful of passengers a week? Why waste money on a line that was doomed to close for years? Think of the criticism if Irish Rail had built little stations and installed ticket machines and paved the platforms at all those stations, there would be uproar and you would be the loudest of the critics.

No Foggy, I would not! When I first travelled the line in the 1970's it was quite busy with passengers and freight (wagon load and beet), the stations had buildings, passing loops, signal cabins etc. If you wish to kill a railway - apart from not marketing it or having a useful timetable - the best way is to make it inhospitable and inflexible. Remove the buildings, loops etc. and you end up with a useless siding from Waterford to Rosslare and we are where we are. How in the name of God could they for some years not even have a nameboard at Ballycullane? Incidentally, I see nothing wrong with the gravelled platforms and I'm not a fan of CIE/IE's fetish for Euro Cobble and yellow lines.

foggy_lad

MYOB wrote: »

There WERE station buildings, Irish Rail removed them for the most part.

Because they were dangerous or cost too much to maintain. The country cant afford to be painting and repairing buildings/galvanised ticket offices out in the middle of nowhere that might be used by a few people a week and were subject to regular vandalism.

But of course if the stations were manned 24/7 they wouldn't be vandalised but that still wouldn't make a dead line viable, it died when it became cheaper to transport beet by road!

foggy_lad

Judgement Day wrote: »

No Foggy, I would not! When I first travelled the line in the 1970's it was quite busy with passengers and freight (wagon load and beet), the stations had buildings, passing loops, signal cabins etc. If you wish to kill a railway - apart from not marketing it or having a useful timetable - the best way is to make it inhospitable and inflexible. Remove the buildings, loops etc. and you end up with a useless siding from Waterford to Rosslare and we are where we are. How in the name of God could they for some years not even have a nameboard at Ballycullane? Incidentally, I see nothing wrong with the gravelled platforms and I'm not a fan of CIE/IE's fetish for Euro Cobble and yellow lines.

So you would see this line reopened to operate at a loss? There is no way the line could ever make a profit or even break even unless you were to build up the sugar plant in thurles and then pay farmers the old very high prices they were getting and then convince people to pay €1.50 for a bag of sugar instead of 95 cent. One other thing you forget is the barrow bridge would need replacing!

There will never be sufficient demand for a passenger service on this line and this will not improve even if the many speed restrictions were removed.

Come out of the days of yesteryear clouds that our grandparents lived in, it is 2012 now!

dowlingm

foggy lad wrote:

So you would see this line reopened to operate at a loss?

That's not what JD said. He merely reminded us how the line got to its current state. Merely reinstating c.1970s timetable and facilities wouldn't be enough to resuscitate this line.

patrickbrophy18

dowlingm wrote: »

Merely reinstating c.1970s timetable and facilities wouldn't be enough to resuscitate this line.

Hit the nail on the head there. In order to resuscitate the line, some (if not all) of the towns along it need to grow from a commercial and residential perspective. The viability of any railway line depends largely on the function of the towns along their alignment. Collectively, the towns along the Waterford-Rosslare Railway Line didn't have a strong enough population or commercial base to justify a commuter service. While bad co-ordination of connecting services and lack of marketing may have been a factor, correcting this mightn't have made enough difference for the justification of daily return journey's. Nevertheless, residential and commercial expansion of the intermediate towns should be encouraged to generate the business case and demand for re-instating the line as a commuter route.

foggy_lad

dowlingm wrote: »

That's not what JD said. He merely reminded us how the line got to its current state. Merely reinstating c.1970s timetable and facilities wouldn't be enough to resuscitate this line.

Are there people to fill the trains? what about the gatekeepers overtime costs of running trains through level crossings outside of normal hours? I do hope you are not including any freight operations in this as there was nothing only beet and a few mixed fast-track packages in the 70s and that is long gone.

What most supporters of the line forget is that during the 60s-80s there were far fewer cars on the road and they were mainly used by the breadwinner to get to/from work, The train was rarely seen as an option for most workers because of the way it was run by CIE, Dirty and late and often didnt make it at all. The wife may have got the train occasionally during the day going to Waterford or limerick or even to connect to Rosslare for a train to Dublin but with the increased popularity of the motor car the train became less and less important and was used less and less!

I'm not having a go at any supporters but the writing has been on the wall for lines like Waterford-Rosslare and Ballybrophy-Limerick for years but nobody within the company has had the balls to cut out the dead wood. there has been no demand for years and no prospect for increasing demand and all the fancy marketing in the world even if backdated 30 years would not change that!

Just look at the nice job that was done at Clonmel Railway station and the snack bar/cafe and shop there but there are no passengers to use it.

Niles

foggy_lad wrote: »

it died when it became cheaper to transport beet by road!

It wasn't anything to do with beet being cheaper to transport by road - Greencore closed the sugar plant at Mallow and there was simply no more beet to be transported! It was carried from Wellington Bridge by rail to the very end, in fact, IÉ had actually gone to the trouble of converting containers for beet usage only a year before (in a climate where they otherwise seemed adverse to the development of rail freight).

corktina

clonmel station doubles as the towns bus station and the cafe is there primarily for that reason

dowlingm

foggy - for the avoidance of doubt

NOBODY IS ARGUING WITH YOU

NOBODY IS ADVOCATING FOR THE REOPENING OF THE LINE

STOP LOOKING FOR A FIGHT.

purplepanda

Dalkey & Carlow people are trying to tell locals that they're is no demand for a rail service, either local or indeed longer distance. Not as if any of these "stations" were ever proper stations in the first place apart from Wellington Bridge. :eek:

Perhaps they should check out the queues of cars back to Arthurstown trying to get to Waterford daily by the Ballyhack to Passage East Ferry & the traffic jams in New Ross during rush hour with many trying to get to Waterford for work, college or hospital. One train a day each way & a time advantage over road journeys & yet IE still didn't want to introduce a proper passenger commuter service.

And then some suggest, despite independent reports, that IE were right to suspend services on the line? Have either of these posters actually thought & researched the facts before coming on here & posting rubbish? :mad:

IE slowly destroys the rail system bit by bit & some still find reason to defend their actions?

dowlingm

If the Ballyhack/Passage East people would stop opposing buses on the ferry maybe some of those cars wouldn't be in the queue for far less capital cost.

purplepanda

I think it was some Passage East people who complained about the buses, there's not many residents in Ballyhack nowadays

I'd be a bit worried about a bus on the ferry, it would have to be a small bus which would mean more trips back & forth, I doubt if the ferry could take a 50 seater or even struggle with a 30 seater!!!

Now that the Barrow Road bridge project won't happen during the next 20 years there needs to be something done about the transport links between West Wexford & Waterford / Kilkenny , re-introduction of proper rail services would still be the cheapest option available.

Anywhere else in Ireland & there would have been decent infrastructure put in place decades ago to properly connect the three adjacent counties separated by a medium sized river.

curfumsarinn

Using a bigger context than just Wellingtonbridge or Ballycullane, we should remember there used to be two different trains/routes from Waterford to Wexford, one via New Ross and the other on the Rosslare line. Both are closed now. I dont know whether a reasonable argument could be made for restoring Waterford-Rosslare on the basis of serving the communities of South Wexford, but you would have to think that if you looked at a railway-free map of Ireland and tried to pick where you would put lines, that Rosslare-Wexford-NewRoss-Waterford and beyond might make it onto that list. Particularly if it was then followed by a line beyond Waterford to Carrick, Clonmel and on to Limerick, or else from Waterford to Dungarvan, Youghal, Midleton, Cork. Having moved to the South East in the last few years it has seemed to me that if a connection had ever been built from Youghal to Dungarvan, a distance of only say 20 miles, that a whole South-Coast line would still be working. Something similar to the arguments made about a West Coast line Cork-Limerick-Sligo-Derry if the Sligo-Derry bit had ever been built.

By the way, first post in this forum, go easy on me. Railway enthusiast all my life.

dowlingm

curfumsarinn wrote: »

Having moved to the South East in the last few years it has seemed to me that if a connection had ever been built from Youghal to Dungarvan, a distance of only say 20 miles

Look at a terrain map of west Waterford.

Park Royal

If I recall correctly the timetable was of no use to most people...on the Rosslare to Limerick route....

due to severe shortage of rolling stock and finance....for decades...

it is lucky there is any rail network due to the meagre financing of

the railway down the years.......and the rigid unions it had to

contend with....

Wellington Bridge Station Masters House was up for sale a few weeks back...

eth0

Park Royal wrote: »

If I recall correctly the timetable was of no use to most people...

You could arrive off the ferry and the train would have left 10 minutes ago. I think the ferry and the train went at around the same time. It was a skilled professional who came up with a timetable that suited absolutely nobody

d4head77

It's the old story really - somebody invented cars! In the fifties and early sixties many lines were closed, and the people who travelled to the inquiries to demand they were to be kept often came by car!

It's a shame that the south wexford line has gone. It was a beautifully picturesque line, but in truth, it is probably (sadly) surprising it survived the 1975 closures, if not the '67 ones.

Judgement Day

d4head77 wrote: »

It's the old story really - somebody invented cars! In the fifties and early sixties many lines were closed, and the people who travelled to the inquiries to demand they were to be kept often came by car!

It's a shame that the south wexford line has gone. It was a beautifully picturesque line, but in truth, it is probably (sadly) surprising it survived the 1975 closures, if not the '67 ones.

Nothing like keeping the old Todd Andrews myths alive and well.

corktina

the same was said of the Lynton and Barnstable enquiry in the 1930s .I suspect its an urban myth (spin if you like)