Bit confused over insurance - is garage covered to test drive my car?

CiniO

Few days I was in garage abroad, and they had to test drive my car to find a fault.
I only started wondering later if they were covered to drive my car.
My insurance cert says the following:

(...)

D. Persons or Classes of Persons whose Liability is Covered:
- The Insured
- Any person driving whose driving is covered, except from person in the Motor Trade driving the vehicle for the purposes necessitated by it's overhaul, upkeep and/or repair of the vehicle for The Insured.

(...)

F. Drivers or Classes of Drivers whose Driving is Covered:
- The Insured
- Any person in the Motor Trade who is driving with the Insured consent for the purposes necessitated by it's overhaul, upkeep and/or repair of the vehicle for The Insured.

(...)

Now - as the garage is located in the country where every car is insured to drive by everybody, no one in the garage could have any idea that vehicle was not insured to drive by them, and they surely didn't have any insurance to drive it from their side.

The question is - were they insured to drive under my policy?
I was reading the quoted text few times, but I just can't understand the main point.

MugMugs

Their policy covers them

TestTransmission

I would assume they had their own insurance to cover customer's cars.

MugMugs

Motor Traders. Been studying the subject all weekend :eek:

CiniO

Guys I think you missed the bit I wrote:

Few days I was in garage abroad

(...)

Now - as the garage is located in the country where every car is insured to drive by everybody, no one in the garage could have any idea that vehicle was not insured to drive by them, and they surely didn't have any insurance to drive it from their side.

To be clear the garage is located in Poland.
In Poland every car is insured to be driven by anyone, so garages don't have any insurance to drive customers cars.

My question was if the car was covered by my policy to be driven by garage mechanic?
I'm 100% sure it wasn't covered by any garage policy as they just don't have it.

TestTransmission

CiniO wrote: »

Guys I think you missed the bit I wrote:




To be clear the garage is located in Poland.
In Poland every car is insured to be driven by anyone, so garages don't have any insurance to drive customers cars.

My question was if the car was covered by my policy to be driven by garage mechanic?
I'm 100% sure it wasn't covered by any garage policy as they just don't have it.

Ask somebody in Poland perhaps.

challengemaster

TestTransmission wrote: »

Ask somebody in Poland perhaps.

Yup. As far is it goes here, I think you're the expert on polish motoring Cinio, so if you don't know, we certainly don't

CiniO

TestTransmission wrote: »

Ask somebody in Poland perhaps.

How would they know?

I quoted a part of from my Irish insurance cert.
As I said I read it few times, and still can't figure out if it covers a garage mechanic to drive my car for purposes of fixing it.
Maybe I just can't understand English language good enough to understand it, that's why I'm asking here.

I actually shouldn't have said anything about garage abroad and Poland, as this is irrelevant to my question.

Question was only if my policy covers a garage to drive my car?
Can anyone figure it out from a bit I quoted from my insurance cert?

CiniO

challengemaster wrote: »

Yup. As far is it goes here, I think you're the expert on polish motoring Cinio, so if you don't know, we certainly don't

But my question has nothing to do with Polish motoring, but instead it's all about my Irish policy which I have with Allianz.

MugMugs

D contradicts F. I can't really tell out of context. Generally motor traders are indemnified under your policy superseded by theirs if they have it.

Insurance in the EU is very generic now dude. Poland too... Check out the MOTOR INSURANCE DIRECTIVE 5 for details on why.

CiniO

MugMugs wrote: »

D contradicts F.

That's actually my main concern and doubt.

According to it (my insurance cert) garage liability is not covered, but garage driving is covered.
I just can't figure out what does it actually mean.

I can't really tell out of context. Generally motor traders are indemnified under your policy superseded by theirs if they have it.

I'm 100% sure this garage doesn't have any policy to cover them driving my car. Can I assume that my own policy covered them to drive it?

Insurance in the EU is very generic now dude. Poland too... Check out the MOTOR INSURANCE DIRECTIVE 5 for details on why.

But it has nothing really to do with any EU insurance directive.
If my policy covers garage to drive my car, then all is fine.
If it doesn't then it's a quite a big risk if garage do drive my car.

MugMugs

Technically under "Insurer concerned" they are covered under your car anyway. If the car is covered and the driver not any third party loss is indemnified by the vehicle insurer which can then be recovered from the liable party. But that's just getting technical. Without reading the full policy and cert I can't give you a straight answer.... Give him a disclaimer to sign indemnifying you and any third parties for loss incurred next time.

Mr Benevolent

OP I don't think we can answer this. Talk to Allianz.

CiniO

MugMugs wrote: »

Technically under "Insurer concerned" they are covered under your car anyway. If the car is covered and the driver not any third party loss is indemnified by the vehicle insurer which can then be recovered from the liable party. But that's just getting technical.

It definitely is
Probably too technical.

Without reading the full policy and cert I can't give you a straight answer....

I couldn't see anything else in my policy or cert concerning this subject. That's all.
I just can't understand difference between "someone's liability being covered" or "someone's driving being covered"

Give him a disclaimer to sign indemnifying you and any third parties for loss incurred next time.

Then he's going to tell me to feck off as most garages in Poland have enough customers, and they can afford to avoid some customers causing trouble.

CiniO

Confab wrote: »

OP I don't think we can answer this. Talk to Allianz.

I'll probably will write a question to them to clarify this thing.

MugMugs

Actually. Don't bother. One of these is applicable to you. Either D or F and its marked on your certificate of insurance. Find which one it is and you've got your answer.

CiniO

MugMugs wrote: »

Actually. Don't bother. One of these is applicable to you. Either D or F and its marked on your certificate of insurance. Find which one it is and you've got your answer.

They are both (D and F) on my certificate of insurance so they both apply to me.

It's just a difference between "liability" and "driving" being covered.

I'm "The Insured" person, so both my liability and my driving is covered.
In case of garage only driving is covered, but not the liability.

Anyone has any idea what does it mean?

listermint

As an aside, why would you want to claim off your own insurance, surely the very first port of call if something was to arise would be to claim of the garages insurance ??

So im unsure as to why it matters?

MugMugs

Your liability is your obligation to compensate any third parties your injure or damage as a result of your liability to them.

"In case of garage only driving is covered, but not the liability."

Loss or damage to your car by their acts is covered under your policy however liability to others is not.

CiniO

MugMugs wrote: »

Your liability is your obligation to compensate any third parties your injure or damage as a result of your liability to them.

"In case of garage only driving is covered, but not the liability."

Loss or damage to your car by their acts is covered under your policy however liability to others is not.

All right.
Maybe that's what it means then.
If they damage my car, then my insurance will pay off for it, but my insurance won't cover them for any damage they do to third partied while driving my car.

CiniO

listermint wrote: »

As an aside, why would you want to claim off your own insurance, surely the very first port of call if something was to arise would be to claim of the garages insurance ??

So im unsure as to why it matters?

OSI wrote: »

This doesn't really make sense to me. While it's in the garages hands, it's the garages liability. So why would you be happy for your own insurance to cover them in the event they crash.

You take your car to the garage, they crash it, "oppps there goes my 5 years NCB even though I wasn't even driving it!"

Surely garage is responsible for my car if I leave it with them. If they damage it, they would have to pay for it.
Anyway in unlikely event they take my car for a test drive and crash causing huge damage to some third party they probably wouldn't be able to afford to pay it.
They would never expect that car was not insured to drive by them, as every car in Poland is insured third party to be driven by anyone. (garage is in Poland)

If it was polish registered car, and garage would cause damage to someone while driving it, then car owner insurance would pay for third party claim, and only what garage would be obliged to do, is to cover a difference in premium arising from loosing of NCB by the car owner, which probably wouldn't be more than 50 quid or some.