WRC 2012 - Will it even happen?

h3000

As you may or may not know the future of the World Rally Championship is in turmoil. It's all down to the financial position of the championships (until today) promoters.

Back in November Europol issued an arrest warrant for Russian banker Vladimir Antonov at the request of Lithuanian prosecutors as part of an investigation into asset-stripping at Antonov's commercial banks, Snoras and Latvijas Krājbanka (see here). Antonov who's company Convers Sports Initiatives held the rights to the WRC, was arrested in London two days later and charged with fraud and embezzlement.
Convers Sports Initiatives initially claimed to be unaffected by the arrest, but went into receivership at the end of the month.
Promoter North One Sport (owned by Convers Sports Initiatives) issued a statement clarifying the situation, confirming that they were unaffected by Antonov's arrest and parent company Convers Sports Initiatives entering into receivership and that they would co-operate with the investigation into Bank Snoras. However, North One Sport were subsequently forced to find new investors, with bids from Qatar and French broadcaster Eurosport. It was later reported that negotiations with the Qatari bidders had collapsed, forcing the closure of North One Sport.

That was the last official news until the FIA released the below statement today.

FIA wrote:

Last Friday the FIA served notice to terminate its contract with North One Sport, the Promoter of the FIA World Rally Championship. The FIA sought urgent unequivocal assurances from NOS that it could fulfil its contractual obligations and deliver the promotion of the upcoming Rally Monte Carlo and the Championship for 2012 and for the future. It is with regret and disappointment that no such assurance has been given to the FIA, and therefore today the FIA has been driven to terminate its contract with NOS. NOS has conspicuously failed to deliver its contractual obligations and is in fundamental breach of contract.

Following the recent unforeseen circumstances which led to Convers Sports Initiatives (CSI) the parent company being placed into administration in November 2011, the FIA has fully supported and co-operated with both NOS and the administrators of the parent company CSI in their efforts to secure a purchaser. Contrary to press speculation however, no firm offer to purchase NOS has been presented to the FIA during this period but only numerous non-binding expressions of interest subject to due diligence. The FIA has been notified of at least 7 expressions of interest, but none have come to fruition.

The FIA has given time and support to all the parties concerned to find the right solutions. Regrettably however, not only has NOS failed to perform in accordance with its contract, it has also been unable to secure the essential investment required to enable it to deliver the Championship.

This has placed the FIA in an unprecedented situation just 10 days before Rally Monte Carlo in that the FIA will now have to take urgent action to secure the staging of the Championship. The Fédération is now working tirelessly to ensure the WRC goes ahead as fully as planned to mitigate the consequences of the breach of NOS.

At the start of the 2012 season, the FIA wishes to take this opportunity to reassure all its stakeholders - the Automobile Club de Monaco and Rally Monte Carlo which makes a welcome return as the opening round of the Championship, the other vital commercial partners, Rally Organisers, the Manufacturers and Teams, and the vast loyal worldwide fan base - of its full on-going commitment to the World Rally Championship and its determination to see 2012 take place as planned.

The FIA has now launched urgent top level discussions with several partners and suppliers to guarantee the key organisational and promotional components of the Championships, including timing and tracking, TV production and distribution, as well as sponsorship servicing are put in place.

The FIA is fully confident that it will deliver a safe, successful and exciting 2012 season, adding that in the current context, and while there are still on-going discussions, it would not be appropriate for the Fédération to discuss these matters publicly until a final solution has been reached.

I hope this can all be sorted but it has to be said it's really not looking too good :(.

afatbollix

It will FIA bankrolling Eurosport to cover at the moment.


Expect Eurosport to get the Rights for the full year too.

Eurosport are the promoter of IRC & WTCC so know what to do and have a good working relationship with the FIA.

I hope they employ a few of north one people as they did a good production.

wobbles

The live events from the IRC last year was the brilliant coverage. Get in some decent commenators and it would be would be a turning point in the sport. Something drastic had to change, and i think it has. Once everything settles down, we will see a new look championship.

guyfo

Very misleading thread title. Of course it will happen, the question in the thread title should be will it be promoted.

I see it as being very good for the wrc. north one had the deal for 11 years and what did they do for the sport?

Lets see a list of north ones contribution to the wrc since 2000

In 2000 the wrc was on terrestrial tv - now its on motors tv and espn

There were 7 works manufacturers with Ford, Peugeot, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Skoda, Hyundai and Seat - now we have ford and citroen with a half arsed mini effort

As for the quality of the drivers back then take a look at this the top 20 in the drivers championship in 2000 included names such as:

Marcus Grönholm
Richard Burns
Carlos Sainz
Colin McRae
Tommi Mäkinen
François Delecour
Gilles Panizzi
Juha Kankkunen
Harri Rovanperä
Petter Solberg
Kenneth Eriksson
Didier Auriol
Toshi Arai
Toni Gardemeister
Freddy Loix
Bruno Thiry
Armin Schwarz

That list includes 7 world champions (at the time, petter didnt win until 03)

Last year we had 2 world champs competing and the top 20 was littered with talentless nobodies who were only there because of their money and only score because of the lack of good competition, drivers such as wilson, al quassami, kuipers, villagra and raikkonen. This was due in no small part to the banning of 3 car teams in 04

Some of the rallies no longer in the championship that were included in 2000 are, The Safari, The Samremo and Rally Corsica

North one have driven the sport into the ground there ceo once announced that the maximum number of manufacturers he wanted in the wrc was 4. That man was ceo, how is a sport supposed to grow with a mindset like that.

Hopefully eurosport can turn the sport around and again make the wrc attractive to manufacturers, sponsors and drivers

h3000

guyfo wrote: »

Very misleading thread title. Of course it will happen, the question in the thread title should be will it be promoted.

I don't think it's misleading maybe a little dramatic though . There are still big problems to be resolved. Yesterday there was the good news that Stage One Technology had agreed with the FIA to provide the timing for Monte Carlo. This morning it's already in doubt. iRally released the below statement from S1T about the problems it has run into.

iRally & S1T wrote:

The essential Timing and Safety Tracking for the Monte Carlo Rally is again in doubt this morning with timekeepers Stage One Technology saying lawyers are trying to stop them using the WRC timekeeping equipment and systems at Monte Carlo.

S1T MD Simon de Banke has sent an open letter to NOS and the CSI administrators, which has been copied to media including iRally and Autosport.

Given the importance of the situation, iRally is publishing that letter in full:

OPEN LETTER : THE FIA WRC – LET’S DO SOMETHING POSITIVE

As I write, the WRC Timing and Safety Tracking Systems are en route to Valence in order to assist in providing the results for the millions of fans around the world, and the safety tracking to help protect the competitors and spectators on the icy mountain stages of Rallye Monte-Carlo.

Parts of this system used to belong to North One Sport, and the dedicated team at Stage One Technology has developed and operated it for you, diligently and quietly for the last 10+ years.

As you know, Stage One Technology is owed a substantial sum of money by North One Sport which has put the jobs of the passionate S1T team, and those of its suppliers on the line. When it became clear that it was unlikely we would be able to be paid, we gave you notice that we would seize the timing and tracking systems in order to at least allow us the opportunity to continue to trade should the worst happen and you were unable to find a firm offer to buy NOS before time ran out.

Time did run out. And as far as we know, no firm offer was put in front of the FIA, although I can still understand how upset you would feel that in the final hours a very credible buyer seemed to be close to a deal.

As far as we are concerned we have completed the process of seizure of the assets for non payment and are satisfied we have a greater right to title to/possession of the equipment than any other party.

This morning we have received a letter from your lawyers indicating that you intend to use every legal means necessary to try to stop the systems being used in Monte Carlo. I expect you are fully aware of the consequences, should this happen.

Unlike North One Sport, North One Television / All 3 Media and Hacker Young, Stage One Technology is a small, independent company which employs a team of people – most of which have worked on the WRC systems for most of its ten year history – who don’t care about the politics or the commercials. We just want to get the job done, and play our part in making the WRC all it can be.

The systems are valueless to you. There is only one team of people in the world who knows how to turn them on! Only two human beings alive who know how to repair them when they go wrong. These people are part of our team. Even if you managed to switch the systems on, they don’t actually do anything without critical software which was developed by, paid for and is owned entirely by us. In short, these systems are of absolutely no value to anyone other than Stage One Technology. It would fetch only scrap value on the open market, as it simply doesn’t do anything on its own. It would be like trying to sell a blank Excel Spreadsheet – of course it could be very useful if it were filled in with formulae and functions, but it isn’t – it’s blank!

Whilst I will fight to the death to protect my amazing, humble, diligent, professional and hard working people, I do not care to personally profit from this disappointing situation.

So without prejudice to our current position that we are the party with the best claim to the equipment, I make NOS the following proposal. If by 1pm today (10 January 2012), you write to confirm you will not seek to assert any right, title or interest over these (valueless to you / the creditors of NOS) systems, and that you will not seek any kind of damages against Stage One Technology or it’s associated companies, staff or directors relating to their continued use and possession of the equipment, I pledge to turn Stage One Technology into a 100% non-profit organisation, which will put absolutely every penny of its profits into worthwhile causes, such as the incredible Make A Wish foundation, to give kids who’s daily routine make everything we’re dealing with now seem like a weekend in the Bahamas, the chance to ride in World Rally Cars, meet their heroes and fly to exotic places to experience the same excitement and passion you’ve had the enormous privilege to witness first hand for the last 10+ years whilst also making an incredible living.

And in addition, we will, subject to us successfully using the equipment in Monte Carlo without interference, pay you £10,000 for this equipment – which is entirely valueless to you, except as scrap value.

I feel terrible for the staff you have lost and the many lives that have been affected by this terribly regrettable situation. I sincerely hope you will join us now in allowing something extraordinarily positive to come out of all of this, and leave behind a generous legacy to the fans and supporters of the World Rally Championship.

It is in your power to make something good come out of all of this. The staff of Stage One Technology, and I await your response.

Yours sincerely,

Simon de Banke,
for and on behalf of Stage One Technology.

I totally agree with everything you said about NOS. They really have ruined the sport. Most recent being the whole ESPN deal.

I really hope this can all be sorted out. It's only 7 days and 18 hours to the official start of Monte and still loads of problems to be dealt with. If nothing is sorted soon each event sponsor is going to get worried, which could put the events themselves in jeopardy.

guyfo

h3000 wrote: »

I really hope this can all be sorted out. It's only 7 days and 18 hours to the official start of Monte and still loads of problems to be dealt with. If nothing is sorted soon each event sponsor is going to get worried, which could put the events themselves in jeopardy.

Yea theres so many twists and turns to this story its unbelievable
! The organizing club of the monte have there own timing gear on standby though and it was suitable for irc live timing so it should be up to scratch if s1t cant sort it out first.

Robbo

I really don't get any of the clamour for the North One era, they drove the championship into a downward spiral that it's hard to see the way back from. Quite frankly, their coverage became unwatchable. The same old tropes ("Latvala will want to really push here.....OH NO....he's hit a tree....he won't like that") all in the least convincing performance since King Herod in Mrs Doubtfire 2, the inability to focus on anyone outside the established runners (witness Ostberg in Sweden last year, he got next to no coverage when he was in the hunt because he was further down the road), endless Matthew bloody Wilson, the weird appearances by comedians at the roadside who plainly didn't want to be there, the unwavering ****ness of WRC.com.

A lot of people have being taking aim at the FIA in this for not taking action but I'm not so sure. It seems they were strung along with this "mystery Qatari investor" business until it was too late to do anything other than walk. I think "I've got some sovereign wealth from the Gulf coming in any day now in a vaguely unsustainable manner" has replaced "the cheque's in the post" as one of the greatest lies in business.

It's a horrible situation at the moment but if a more motivated promoter can come in, I'm sure it would help. How could Prodrive in all faith go out looking for sponsorship with the North One product as the selling point, which had no terrestrial deals and no mainstream paid-Satellite deals in place?

h3000

If any of you are on Twitter Colin Clark is good to follow.

https://twitter.com/#!/voiceofrally



Here is Simon de Banke's (CEO Stage One Technologies) twitter too
https://twitter.com/#!/simondebanke

h3000

Latest three Tweets from Colin Clark @voiceofrally, things are really getting out of hand.

Colin Clark - tweet 1 wrote:

Hearing things not looking god for Stage One Tech timing and Monte - more to follow

Colin Clark - tweet 2 wrote:

S1T defo not doing Monte - Truck has just been turned around! Lost 10 more good on event friends - totally gutted.

Colin Clark - tweet 3 wrote:

Also hearing Eurosport deal is close to collapse. Do the powers that be in FIA have a Plan B if needed? Really hope so!

h3000

Eurosport deal looking a bit better since my post three seconds ago :). I really hope so..

Colin Clark - Twitter wrote:

Had it confirmed, Eurosport deal was stalling because of lack of a long term deal. That’s now resolved, deal is for 3yrs starting at Monte!

De Hipster

The pre-season WRC news just gets worse...

2012's WRC is really looking like the championship is going to have to battle to survive the season, from the collapse & scandal around the event promoters to serious financial issues for the teams & drivers...this week sees more negative news on the sale of Kris Meeke's seat @ Mini & a fire at the Prodrive Banbury facility:

Kris Meeke will miss the Rally of Sweden after Patrik Sandell was named as Dani Sordo’s Mini team-mate for the event.

Already replaced by Corsican Pierre Campana for next week’s Monte Carlo Rally, Ulsterman Meeke will now sit out round two of the World championship while the cash-strapped Mini team, run by British-based company Prodrive, continue to sell his place to drivers who can afford the near £200,000 price tag.

Campana is backed by the French Federation and former Junior World champion Sandell comes with sponsorship from the Sweden World Rally Team.

Significantly he also has the backing of BMW/Mini Sweden, the Swedish importers and there are indications he will have further outings after his home event.

Meeke, who has a three-year contract with Prodrive, has been sidelined since it was revealed just before Christmas that the Mini team had not registered for the 2012 World championship and did not have the money to field two cars this season.

It appears the failure to land a sponsor and a dispute between Prodrive, who have been responsible for the development of the Mini Countryman WRC, and Mini’s parent company BMW are at the heart of the trouble.

On-going issues over promotion and television coverage are said to be contributing factors.

North One Sport, the promoters and TV rights holders, had their contract terminated at the weekend, leading to the lay-off of 40 staff and motorsport’s governing body, the FIA, is seeking a replacement — likely to be Eurosport.

Former Intercontinental Challenge champion Meeke, from Dungannon and his Killarney co-driver Paul Nagle remain contracted to the team but unless the cash crisis is resolved soon, it seems they will be confined to a support role in the near future.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/meeke-left-in-limbo-as-mini-sell-off-his-seat-16102054.html#ixzz1jAzzOxfg

Unconfirmed fire location as Prodrive Factory:

Twenty firefighters tackle blaze in Banbury - http://www.banburyguardian.co.uk/news/local/twenty_firefighters_tackle_blaze_in_banbury_1_3399929#.TwxaGNH9J-I

Published on Sunday 8 January 2012 14:37

INVESTIGATIONS are continuing into the cause of a fire which required the attendance of 20 firefighters yesterday (Saturday).

Shortly after 5.15am four fire crews from Banbury, Hook Norton and Deddington were called to reports of a fire at a car workshop on a Banbury industrial estate.

Security staff were alerted by a fire detection system in the building and backed up the automatic call to the Fire and Rescue Service with a ‘999’ call.

Fire crews wearing breathing apparatus tackled the fire using high pressure hose jets. The fire was brought under control by about 6am.

Station manager Chris Wilson said: “On arrival, the fire was threatening to take hold and spread through the building but the speed and weight of our response meant that we were able to hold it back and control it in relatively short order.”

The cause of the fire is not yet known and fire investigators are trying to establish the exact cause.

Firefighters are unable to release the exact location of the fire until the investigation has reached a conclusion.

h3000

There still seem to be some politics to sort out but it does look like Eurosport have signed a three year deal.

Autosport.com wrote:

The FIA's World Rally Championship television agreement with Eurosport is expected to be revealed later today.

AUTOSPORT's sources have confirmed contracts were signed late last night for a three-year agreement between the governing body and the French firm. The deal is believed to center on television coverage and distribution, while the promotion of the sport is expected to be taken care of the FIA itself.

Eurosport was unavailable for comment when AUTOSPORT contacted its offices, but a statement is expected to be issued in a matter of hours.

The deal for next week's Monte Carlo Rally is reckoned to include a 26-minute highlights show at the end of each day, but the power-stage will not be run live on Sunday afternoon.

Eurosport's agreement comes in the wake of the demise of former global rights holder North One Sport, which had its contract with the FIA terminated on Sunday following a breach of contract.

With just days to go before the start of the opening round, one television insider has admitted Eurosport will be up against it - despite having covered the event as an IRC round for the last three years.

North One Television CEO Neil Duncanson said: "I think Monte Carlo is very difficult now for whoever goes to do it. We were ready to go right up until the FIA terminated the NOS contract on Sunday. Since then we have stood down the satellite bookings, we were supposed to be doing three live stages and all the other programmes. The preview programme is finished, it was supposed to be delivered on Wednesday - we'd been up at M-Sport shooting it on Monday. We were ready to go.

"Somebody coming in cold could produce some fairly basic highlight shows; Eurosport at least have experience in Monte Carlo and could probably put together some lightweight live stages for the internet, but the longer this goes on the more difficult it becomes. There's months of planning which people will have to do in days. Monte is very difficult, you're right in the mountains in difficult weather and moving all the time. It's a logistical nightmare."

Duncanson added that there were legal implications for Eurosport's move, saying: "We're still waiting to hear from Eurosport about the transfer of our production team over to them, under European employment law. But we've not even had the courtesy of an acknowledgement so far."

h3000

Looks like Eurosport are contracted to AMC for Monte rather than the FIA. Still no official announcement about Eurosport's three year deal. It's all a bit crazy :pac:

AMC - Automobile Club de Monaco wrote:

From iRally

A few days before its start, the 80th Monte Carlo Rally, organised by the Automobile Club de Monaco (ACM) is confronted with the non-fulfilment of services which should have been provided by North One Sport (NOS), former Promoter of the World Rally Championship.

Unable at this late stage to await the outcome of unlikely negotiations, the ACM has no other option but to arrange by its own means the timing and tracking of the Event which were the responsibilities of NOS up to now through Stage One Technologies.

This situation also applies to the TV production, broadcasting of the Race and Internet. There again, the ACM took steps by contracting with Eurosport S.A to ensure the best coverage of the Event.

These decisions will allow the 80th Monte Carlo Rally to take place on the 17 January 2012 and the scheduled Race programme to be scrupulously maintained.

The 80th Monte Carlo Rally shall remain on this year's World Championship's schedule regardless of the designation of the Promoter.

The ACM does not wish to make any further comments.

losthorizon

Thats brilliant anyway - last years Monte Carlo Rally was incredible. It was edge of the seat stuff. One of the highlights of any sporting disciplines and when the snow came....

matty55

I wonder if Eurosport will broadcast any of the stages live like they for with the IRC

guyfo

they wont be. 1 week was way to little time to plan for it especially since the aussie open is on too. Last year they had the stages on at times especially for eurosport to show live at times where tennis wasnt on.

recyclebin

Do Motors TV and ESPN still have TV rights or were they declared null and void with the demise of North One?

losthorizon

guyfo wrote: »

they wont be. 1 week was way to little time to plan for it especially since the aussie open is on too. Last year they had the stages on at times especially for eurosport to show live at times where tennis wasnt on.

They have two channels though and its on the same time as it was last year.

I'm sure Eurosport don't provide the cameras etc.

Their TV schedule should be up on their site on Monday at the latest

wobbles

On one of the IRC events last year, there was a clash of with anyother show for the second live stage. They showed the stage live on the eurosport player, and showed deferred coverage later in the day.

Im hoping eurosport do something special now, since they have the two biggest rally championships on their channel. Im hoping the they give rally better timesplots as well

losthorizon

I tweeted Eurosport and got a reply. They are showing highlights everynight from Wednesday to Sunday for an hour between 10.00pm and 11.00 pm. Doesnt look like there are any live stages.

h3000

losthorizon wrote: »

I tweeted Eurosport and got a reply. They are showing highlights everynight from Wednesday to Sunday for an hour between 10.00pm and 11.00 pm. Doesnt look like there are any live stages.

At least we will get to see something anyway. Eurosport have brought Julian "The Guru" Porter onto their team too which is a big plus for them.

guyfo

losthorizon wrote: »

I tweeted Eurosport and got a reply. They are showing highlights everynight from Wednesday to Sunday for an hour between 10.00pm and 11.00 pm. Doesnt look like there are any live stages.

Its not an hour from 10 til 11. Its a half hour on at 10 some nights and 11 on others

Its on motors every night for an hour though. Cant remember what time though (why would i the coverage is total muck on motors!)

jmayo

guyfo wrote: »

Very misleading thread title. Of course it will happen, the question in the thread title should be will it be promoted.

I see it as being very good for the wrc. north one had the deal for 11 years and what did they do for the sport?

Lets see a list of north ones contribution to the wrc since 2000

In 2000 the wrc was on terrestrial tv - now its on motors tv and espn

There were 7 works manufacturers with Ford, Peugeot, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Skoda, Hyundai and Seat - now we have ford and citroen with a half arsed mini effort

As for the quality of the drivers back then take a look at this the top 20 in the drivers championship in 2000 included names such as:

Marcus Grönholm
Richard Burns
Carlos Sainz
Colin McRae
Tommi Mäkinen
François Delecour
Gilles Panizzi
Juha Kankkunen
Harri Rovanperä
Petter Solberg
Kenneth Eriksson
Didier Auriol
Toshi Arai
Toni Gardemeister
Freddy Loix
Bruno Thiry
Armin Schwarz

That list includes 7 world champions (at the time, petter didnt win until 03)

Last year we had 2 world champs competing and the top 20 was littered with talentless nobodies who were only there because of their money and only score because of the lack of good competition, drivers such as wilson, al quassami, kuipers, villagra and raikkonen. This was due in no small part to the banning of 3 car teams in 04

Some of the rallies no longer in the championship that were included in 2000 are, The Safari, The Samremo and Rally Corsica

North one have driven the sport into the ground there ceo once announced that the maximum number of manufacturers he wanted in the wrc was 4. That man was ceo, how is a sport supposed to grow with a mindset like that.

Hopefully eurosport can turn the sport around and again make the wrc attractive to manufacturers, sponsors and drivers

While I agree with your sentiments about where the WRC has gone in the last 10 odd years, I think not all of it is down to the current promoters.

A lot of the teams that drove rallying have disappeared off the scene.
Some of those marques (Audi, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda) went into other forms of motorsport.
Nissan and Mazda might have been bit players, but nevertheless did have works teams once upon a time.
A once great team, Lancia disappeared.

The big question has to be why some of these marques chose to concentrate on other forms of motorsport ?
Is it all down to the way the sport was promoted and if so then the rot started a long time before 10 years ago.

Two of the dominant players of the late 90s and early 00s, Mitsubishi and Subaru both went off the scene.
Wasn't it economic reasons they gave for pulling out.

I stopped watching WRC because it has become the Citreon vs Ford show with Loeb the guaranteed victor before the season starts.
IMHO one cannot claim (m,uch like Schuemacker in F1) that Loeb is the greatest ever because sadly the competition is so poor.

h3000

I really believe that Jari Matti will push and possibly overtake Loeb this year. Well I hope so at least.

If Prodrive/MINI WRC can sort out some sponsorship to run a full works program and with VW joining next year along with the new promoters (almost certainly Eurosport) we might see the WRC to get to near where it once was.

jmayo

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Slightly unfair to compare the Schumacher domination era of F1 to Loeb`s run. People forget that Ferrari were terrible when he joined them. As for the rallying I lost interest when all the big teams pulled out.

Actually if you compare Schuie's time with any other time in F1's history you don't find multiple drivers who could really win.
Also the likes of the truly greats Clark, Fangio, Moss, Hill Snr, Stewart, Villenueve Snr, Lauda, Prost, Senna did not have teammates who were also rans who even then were forbidden from challenging.
Anyway that is a whole different kettle of fish.

But like with Loeb and Rallying it is just not good for the sport when one team and one guy dominate.
Although at least with Schuie he moved teams unlike Loeb.
Then again his only option has been Ford. :rolleyes:

h3000 wrote: »

I really believe that Jari Matti will push and possibly overtake Loeb this year. Well I hope so at least.

If Prodrive/MINI WRC can sort out some sponsorship to run a full works program and with VW joining next year along with the new promoters (almost certainly Eurosport) we might see the WRC to get to near where it once was.

Here is hoping.
WRC needs the likes of Prodrive back.
Oh and less of the mickey mouse rallies.
Bring back the likes of the Safari.

Tea 1000

I also think it's unfair to knock Loeb because of lack of top drivers. There were plenty of world champions about 10 years ago when Loeb was starting out and doing well from very early on. He was also team mate briefly to Carlos Sainz and Colin McRea, both of whom he beat, although granted Citroen were more his team. He has also performed very well in his Red Bull F1 test, something which can't be said of quite a few top drivers who switched disciplines for a test.
And you don't always need other great drivers to judge one... just watching him drive in all different conditions will show you how consistent and tidy he is. Also Ogier is a quality driver.

jmayo

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I also think it's unfair to knock Loeb because of lack of top drivers. There were plenty of world champions about 10 years ago when Loeb was starting out and doing well from very early on. He was also team mate briefly to Carlos Sainz and Colin McRea, both of whom he beat, although granted Citroen were more his team. He has also performed very well in his Red Bull F1 test, something which can't be said of quite a few top drivers who switched disciplines for a test.
And you don't always need other great drivers to judge one... just watching him drive in all different conditions will show you how consistent and tidy he is. Also Ogier is a quality driver.

I am not saying Loeb isn't a damm good driver, but you have to admit he hasn't faced the same quality as some of the other great champions.
Look at the driver lists from the 80s or the 90s or indeed the early part of the 2000s.
The only other person to put a string of titles together, and for same team, was Makinen and then he had to face McRae, Burns, Sainz, Kankkunen, Auriol, Grönholm all either past multi WC or future WCs.

And to boot Makinen has proven he could finish in top 10 with Lancia, Subaru, Ford and of course Mitsubishi.
The only other car AFAIK that Loeb has ever driven is a Toyota.

BTW Loeb would not be the first ever Rally driver that has delivered in other motorsport.
Ever heard of Henri Toivonen ?

losthorizon

guyfo wrote: »

Its not an hour from 10 til 11. Its a half hour on at 10 some nights and 11 on others

Its on motors every night for an hour though. Cant remember what time though (why would i the coverage is total muck on motors!)

Just passing on the information they gave me!

Tea 1000

jmayo wrote: »

I am not saying Loeb isn't a damm good driver, but you have to admit he hasn't faced the same quality as some of the other great champions.
Look at the driver lists from the 80s or the 90s or indeed the early part of the 2000s.
The only other person to put a string of titles together, and for same team, was Makinen and then he had to face McRae, Burns, Sainz, Kankkunen, Auriol, Grönholm all either past multi WC or future WCs.

And to boot Makinen has proven he could finish in top 10 with Lancia, Subaru, Ford and of course Mitsubishi.
The only other car AFAIK that Loeb has ever driven is a Toyota.

BTW Loeb would not be the first ever Rally driver that has delivered in other motorsport.
Ever heard of Henri Toivonen ?

I do agree with you alright that he has had less than the best to rally against, but I'm just making the point that we have to be careful not to take from him either. There's nothing to suggest that he'd fail miserably against the best of the 90's, and there's a fair bit of evidence to suggest that he'd be at least competitive. We'll never know for sure, but I'd certainly be placing bets on him to finish in the top 5 at least regularly in the 90's bunch, but we'll never know!!
Again though, all drivers have their certain style, and some cope better than others when the car doesn't suit them.
Yep, Henri was special. Massive shame about his death. Horrible sight too, the footage of that Lancia in flames.

De Hipster

...and we're off.

No updates to the North one Sport managed WRC website, live results here: http://www.rallyliveresults.com/live/liveresult.php?type=CG&num=04

JM Latvala took the lead in stage 2 and promptly rolled off on stage 4. ;-(

marco2068

De Hipster wrote: »

...and we're off.

No updates to the North one Sport managed WRC website, live results here: http://www.rallyliveresults.com/live/liveresult.php?type=CG&num=04

JM Latvala took the lead in stage 2 and promptly rolled off on stage 4. ;-(

Latvala


sigh:(

De Hipster

He's a great driver who struggles to maintain performance within his own limits! I always feel that he'll get there eventually...

losthorizon

bloody hell, Eurosports coverage is cack. Last year when Monte Carlo was part of the IRC they had live stages and plenty of highlights but this is just pathetic.

h3000

losthorizon wrote: »

bloody hell, Eurosports coverage is cack. Last year when Monte Carlo was part of the IRC they had live stages and plenty of highlights but this is just pathetic.

They really did not have a lot of time to get things together for Monte. I'd imagine the coverage will improve when the three year deal is finally agreed.

guyfo

losthorizon wrote: »

bloody hell, Eurosports coverage is cack. Last year when Monte Carlo was part of the IRC they had live stages and plenty of highlights but this is just pathetic.

Yes how dare they not change there entire schedule with one weeks notice so they can show wrc. And it's just unthinkable that there commentator isn't the best considering all the time they had to get everything organised.

They put everything and I mean everything together in just over a week. Your lucky to have any coverage at all with the mess that happened so don't be so quick to mouth off about how bad it is. Come Sweden and the following rounds they will have all the logistics covered and then the quality will follow.