Job Change

southeastg

hey guys,

Happy new year,

I have a degree in IT, software development, I graduated with a 1.1 , 7 years ago. But things were a bit slack at the time so when I was looking for work I started working in construction, good decision eh?? Anyway Im still working in the same job, I like the work the job its stable and the money isn't bad, however it can be physically demanding and there is no path to move on so basically I'll be doning the same hard work in 10 , 20 years time, so I'm looking to get back into computers, possibly programming,maybe on a part time basis at first. Anyway I wanted to someone in IT if this is realistic, I have some basic JAVA , PHP but Im willing to study over the next few years , but will I be employable in my early 30s, limited experience.???? Any advise positive or otherwise is appreciated.
Thanks

Adelie

I think it would be risky for an employer to take you on now, given that you may have forgotten everything since your degree. Also they might wonder if you really have the interest to stick it out since you chose not to use your degree for several years and you have plenty of experience and a decent job in another field.

Having said that once you refreshed your skills and showed your interest then I think you could get back into IT without a big problem. There are plenty of jobs going. You could consider a part-time or full-time Masters. Another option would be contributing to open-source projects or creating a portfolio - many job ads for programmers ask for the applicants GitHub profile if they have one. Join a local hackerspace or techie group if there is one.

I think you should definitely be positive - your 1.1 will really stand to you and you have plenty of options for getting back into coding. In my opinion though the sooner you start working on it and then job-hunting the better!

starlit

I very much agree with Adelie. It be best if you try to brush up on your programming in particular Java as up to date editions of Java have been around since. Newest is Edition 6. Either self learning be the way to go for you or consider doing a short few courses in programming languages like PHP and so on in the hope it all come back to you.

Perl and python are relatively recent programming languages coming on the scene. Javascript, .net and unix/linux be worth looking into again depending what area of programming you like to get back into specifically software development, OS, application development or web development. HTML, CSS and PHP are straight forward programming languages to learn again. You know yourself you have done computer programming before so its not like its totally new to you. Just a matter for you to brush up on what you knew.

Congrats on achieving a First in your IT degree, well done!
It will stand to you. It be difficult I would imagine to get back working into IT again when you have a lot work experience in another field. You probably need to get some work experience in IT to get your foot in the door. Have you looked into contract work or internships? Or setting up your own IT business or website?

Graduate programmes be out of the question but it be worth looking into jobs abroad too like a work programme in Canada or Oz? They would cater for people in your age group?

Maybe considering doing a part-time or if you can a full time Masters in Software Development or computer science might be worth considering.

If you have built up enough IT skills, IT experience and qualities along with relevant IT qualifications employers shouldn't have any doubt in employing you and should see that you are an asset to them, just that you are coming from a different career field so that might prove tricky but what you have learnt from working in another industry could stand to you in terms of qualities and people skills.

Employers want a candidate that be a good investment for their company so it be worth trying to get back on track by expanding your skills sets more so in IT. If you learnt programming once it should be no bother to you in the future.

Best of luck with it OP. I am sure you do great!

southeastg

Thanks guys, very positive comments , I think basically what the two of you are saying is that it can be done if I'm willing to work hard enough at it, like anything I guess, I definitely think your right that other qualities I've gained will be of benefit to me, after reading your comments I think I need to focus on a particular job and sector and work any study around that rather than just learning a language and hope for the best, the thing I'm optimistic about is the fact that there are so many industry certification , thanks guys, any other comments are welcomed,

krd

Adelie wrote: »

I think it would be risky for an employer to take you on now, given that you may have forgotten everything since your degree.

Did you forget how to read and write since you left primary school?

The idea that you can get a degree, and get a one, and then just forget everything is moronic. I know the world is run by morons, but it's still moronic.

Also they might wonder if you really have the interest to stick it out since you chose not to use your degree for several years and you have plenty of experience and a decent job in another field.

He didn't "chose". Another moronic idea, that you simply chose. You have to "chose" the only job anyone is going to offer you. 7 or 8 years ago was very bad time to be an IT graduate. It was shortly after the dot.com collapse. There were literally thousands of qualified and experienced IT people out of work. Even graduates with really good degrees, could not get a start.

Many people who graduated at that time never got a start. I know a few of them.

And the thing is, if you didn't get straight into programming after graduating - it would mess up your chances of ever getting in. You'd likely have some drooling idiot (with a geography degree - but with some nepotism is now in HR) looking at your CV and going ..."Well he got a 1 in his degree....but he's been working as a builder for the last two years, so it means he must have been a really bad programmer if no one gave him a job - and his personality is more suited to building, because that's what he "chose" to do. And plus he's just not the right age any more - he wouldn't really fit in"

The Irish IT industry is really really ageist. Graduate programmers have to be between the ages of 21 and at a max 24. By mid to late 20s you have to be in senior development. And if you're not in management by your early 30s, you're in real trouble.

krd

doovdela wrote: »

Perl and python are relatively recent programming languages coming on the scene.

Perl and python, have been around since the 80s. Since the 1980s. Before even many of the kids doing a degree today were even born.

Javascript, .net and unix/linux be worth looking into again depending what area of programming you like to get back into specifically software development, OS, application development or web development. HTML, CSS and PHP are straight forward programming languages to learn again. You know yourself you have done computer programming before so its not like its totally new to you. Just a matter for you to brush up on what you knew.

HTML, CSS and PHP, Javascript, are just scripting languages. And none of them were invented in the last 7 years. And neither have they radically changed in the last 7 years. And none are that difficult to learn if you've ever had experience in one of the tougher languages, like C.

Graduate programmes be out of the question but it be worth looking into jobs abroad too like a work programme in Canada or Oz? They would cater for people in your age group?

Here we have the ageism. A graduate programme would be out of the question. Told old - 27, 28, tsk,tsk,tsk. Too old, your supervisor, who may be 24 would be too uncomfortable managing you. But maybe go to Canada or Oz (I like the funky young guy way he says Oz) Maybe in Canada or "Oz", they're not so ageist. And might employ someone from a more mature age group.

The ageism is brutal. I know people who did well in IT during their 20s. And now in their thirties they're suddenly finding it difficult to find work.

If you have built up enough IT skills, IT experience and qualities along with relevant IT qualifications employers shouldn't have any doubt in employing you and should see that you are an asset to them, just that you are coming from a different career field so that might prove tricky but what you have learnt from working in another industry could stand to you in terms of qualities and people skills.

"qualities and people skills" more meaningless sh1te. Ageism and snobbery.

When I was much younger, I though IT would be a great thing to get into. Really interesting work, with really interesting people. Instead, it's really dumb, and the people are really dumb working in it too. Especially the preppies, with their "people skills". People skills my arse, they're horrible people.

If you've trained as a doctor, or chemical engineer, or a pharmacist, no one is going to tell you that your too old to do your job by the time you hit 30, or 25 even (- go to Canada or maybe "Oz"). No one is sacking solicitors as they turn 40, because so many fresh law students know so much more than them.

Eoin

krd wrote: »

When I was much younger, I though IT would be a great thing to get into. Really interesting work, with really interesting people. Instead, it's really dumb, and the people are really dumb working in it too. Especially the preppies, with their "people skills". People skills my arse, they're horrible people.

That's just a little bit of a sweeping statement...

pakb1ue

doovdela wrote: »

Graduate programmes be out of the question

I wouldnt say that.

I started in a graduate program with an investment bank and one lad in my intake didnt have an IT degree, was 44 and just had done some programming in an old job a few years ago.

The intake after me there was 3 lads in their 40s but two of them went into support rather then development

That said we did get 3 months training in different techs like SQL, Unix, Java, C#, WPF and C++.

It would be a great program for you OP they will be interviewing again for an August start so if you are interested PM me.

krd

Eoin wrote: »

That's just a little bit of a sweeping statement...

Sometimes, you have to take a brush.....and do a little sweeping.


I've had a fascination for computers and electronics since I was a child. To me, this stuff is really fascinating. And many of the people I've known, who worked/work in IT were incredibly intelligent people.

And some people have been very lucky in their careers to work with very intelligent people, and have had to put up with very little nonsense.

That wouldn't be the universal experience.

"People skills". One of the most important "people skill" you can have, is the ability to not make people feel stupid. This is harder than it sounds. Because often all you have to do is look at someone in the face to see how thick they are. People who are a little retarded look a little retarded. One of the worst mistakes you can make in life is making someone who is stupid, but has power, feel stupid. They get upset.

The ability to not make people feel stupid, is a valuable "people skill". Naturally stupid people, have this "skill" in abundance.

Recruiters, and employers know this. Many will go out of their way to hire people who have this "skill". They go out of their way to hire people, who are stupid. And the ones I've personally hated the most, are the preppy retards. And these people are actually the most sought after. They fit in with the other morons. They have the right "demeanour".

HR, people, in my opinion, are vermin. I remember hearing a few times from various HR types, in interviews and stuff, a statement along the lines of, you can teach people technical skills, but you can't teach them "people skills". And they're right, you can't teach stupidity. It's not something you can learn. And it's really hard to consistently fake.

Though not an absolute rule. The smaller companies have brighter staff - and the larger ones employ the stupidest.

Mrs OBumble

Please do not describe anyone doing their job as "vermin" in this forum.

We all know there are good and bad managers, HR specialists ... teachers, guards, doctors, priests, etc. But none of them are universally bad, just because of their profession.


/moderation.

krd

pakb1ue wrote: »

I wouldnt say that.

I started in a graduate program with an investment bank and one lad in my intake didnt have an IT degree, was 44 and just had done some programming in an old job a few years ago.

The intake after me there was 3 lads in their 40s but two of them went into support rather then development

That said we did get 3 months training in different techs like SQL, Unix, Java, C#, WPF and C++.

It would be a great program for you OP they will be interviewing again for an August start so if you are interested PM me.

That actually sounds like a great program. I remember in the 90s, these schemes being more common. I thought they'd vanished completely. They're really great if you can get on one. And if they're hiring people in their 40s that sounds really great too.

That sounds like good people to work for.

krd

JustMary wrote: »

Please do not describe anyone doing their job as "vermin" in this forum.

We all know there are good and bad managers, HR specialists ... teachers, guards, doctors, priests, etc. But none of them are universally bad, just because of their profession.


/moderation.

I'm sorry. I went a little too far.

I actually know a few decent HR people. 2 and a half, to be precise. (the half, she's a little bit too evil to be completely decent).

I'm sorry.

amen

Op biggest problem for you is going to be the Salary drop. You will be coming from a job where you have experience and you will be entering a field where you have none. You will be getting a graduate salary. You need to consider this and if you can live on this salary.

krd

amen wrote: »

Op biggest problem for you is going to be the Salary drop. You will be coming from a job where you have experience and you will be entering a field where you have none. You will be getting a graduate salary. You need to consider this and if you can live on this salary.

He's been in the building trade.

I'd say he's seen his salary drop.