affordable cycling simulator

Seve OB

I was lying in my bed tonight, can't sleep, thinking, well bed is where all my best thinking gets done! Wouldn't it be great if I could get something that I could hook my bike up to in the sitting room, plug it into my pc, and cycle stages from the tour de France etc.

So it looks like there are options out there alright but the cheapest I see is €370.... Ouch.....

It is the tacx flow multiplayer.

Anyone know any cheaper options?

Also, who knows how these actually work, do they give you resistance when you are supposed to be going up hills etc or is it just a video you watch...... Boring!

coastwatch

Good review of the tacx flow multiplayer here and here thanks to smacl. I dont have one myself, but it sounds like a great way to stay motivated on a trainer. I thought €370 was pretty good considering the basic trainers are about €200.

smacl

stevieob wrote: »

Also, who knows how these actually work, do they give you resistance when you are supposed to be going up hills etc or is it just a video you watch...... Boring!

Yup, they give you resistance going up hills. Serious resistance, based on gradient. On the VR training, I seem to be changing gears more frequently than I would in real life. Down hill is less good, as theoretically you'd need a motor driving you back wheel as you free wheel, which doesn't happen, and there is still some resistance pedalling down hill. The cornering is also quite challenging, particularly if you enter a village at speed, and try to take a right hand turn without slowing right down. For me, the physics behind inertia aren't dealt with that well. On the road, if I'm on smallish hills, I'll tear down the hill and allow the intertia to help carry my fat ass half way up the next hill. This doesn't seem to work in the VR.

The video based stuff looks less interesting to me than the VR. Basically your speed is controlling how fast the video plays, and turning has the effect of limited panning. I'm guessing they shoot it wide angle, and your screen is a moving window on a larger field of vision. Quite clever, but still very limited. That said, if you were actually planning on doing one of the routes for real, being able practice on the TACX would be brilliant.

For €370 on Bike24, it's a great bit of kit if you have a PC to go with it. This is a fraction of what you would have paid a couple of years back.

Seve OB

Hi smacl this is great news. Really appreciate your feedback. I read your reviews on the Tacx and would like to ask you a couple of questions.. hope you can help please.

Firstly, the pics i seen on the net are quite limited, so can you post a couple please? I dont understand how the steering unit works... do you use your own bike or what?

My bike is a Carbon Fibre Felt Z6, just got it a few months ago. Will this go into the setup ok, I obvoiusly don't want to damage it. How long does it take to put your bike into it, cause I won't be buying another, though I do have an old mountain bike I could use, but would rather the racer.

As my bike is new enough, I have persuaded the missus to let me keep it in the kitchen rather than the shed but I have a pretty serious Dell gaming PC (ie to big to move) set up in the kids playroom (dining room of a 3 bed semi) so it isnt a massive area, but I'm stuck with it. If I leave the bike in the unit, does it take up loads of room if i park it up against the wall?

Did you get a video with the unit or are they all an add on purchase? When you hit a hill in the Video option, do you get the resistance as you do with the VR?

With the GPS import option, how does this work. Do you actually have to do a run on your bike to import it, and how do you record it? Can you just pick a route off google maps and do it? EG my mate has asked me to do the ROK run this year, so could I practice it beforehand?

Regarding the sweat issue? did you try any of the sweatguards I've seen advertised around the web? Also what advantage would the heart monitor bring?

Like you mentioned yourself, I think the idea of VR will promote me to use this a bit more than a regular trainer and I liike the idea of doing real runs where you hit hills etc rather than usine a bog staidard trainer that you just go round and round.

I have 2 small kids, so getting out for hours on end is not easy, and so far only used my boike mainly for commuting. It would be great to take a trip up Alp d'Huez when I've put them to bed!

Lastly, I assume you did a bit of research before you purchased this. I have been looking around and can't seem to find anything else other than Tacx. Can you recommend anything else?

I hadn't planned to spend this much, had a figure of 250 in my head before I looked, but reading your review, I'm willing to stretch. However, you do seem to have an issue witht the downhill motion and inertia. Is this something an add on could fix, or would you ned to go to the next level, and what would that be?

GTG now, but might be back online this avo with my credit card....

smacl

stevieob wrote: »

Firstly, the pics i seen on the net are quite limited, so can you post a couple please? I dont understand how the steering unit works... do you use your own bike or what?

My bike is a Carbon Fibre Felt Z6, just got it a few months ago. Will this go into the setup ok, I obvoiusly don't want to damage it. How long does it take to put your bike into it, cause I won't be buying another, though I do have an old mountain bike I could use, but would rather the racer.

The steering unit works by taking off the front wheel from your bike, and putting the skewer back through the steerer unit. The back wheel you use change your current skewer with the tacx skewer, which latches into the quick release on the turbo. (Blue handle at the back of the picture). To take the bike off the trainer altogether, you have to replace the front wheel, clip off the controller, disconnect the cadence sensor, and unclip the back wheel. 2-3 minutes would do this handily. In terms of fit for your bike, the length of the unit is adjustable, as can be seen by the two silver bars under the pedal in the photo. The docs say it will work with any 700c or 26" wheels, so I'm guessing either your felt or MTB would do the job.

As my bike is new enough, I have persuaded the missus to let me keep it in the kitchen rather than the shed but I have a pretty serious Dell gaming PC (ie to big to move) set up in the kids playroom (dining room of a 3 bed semi) so it isnt a massive area, but I'm stuck with it. If I leave the bike in the unit, does it take up loads of room if i park it up against the wall?

Mine's also in the kids playroom, and takes up the width of the handler bars (top & bottom) times the normal length of the bike.

Did you get a video with the unit or are they all an add on purchase? When you hit a hill in the Video option, do you get the resistance as you do with the VR?

With the GPS import option, how does this work. Do you actually have to do a run on your bike to import it, and how do you record it? Can you just pick a route off google maps and do it? EG my mate has asked me to do the ROK run this year, so could I practice it beforehand?

There's a short demo video, all up hill, so difficult to know how it handles resistance, but I'd guess it's the same as the VR. I haven't used the GPS as yet, but will post again once I've tried it out.

Regarding the sweat issue? did you try any of the sweatguards I've seen advertised around the web? Also what advantage would the heart monitor bring?

The room I use isn't heated, and I sweat buckets, as in my cycling clothes are drowned and it looks like someone has spilled a pint of water on the floor underneath the bike. Sweat guards might be an idea to protect the bike, but not much use outside of this. If you were going to use this on a carpeted floor, you'd need a mat underneath it or you'd generate a serious stink pretty quickly.[/quote]

Lastly, I assume you did a bit of research before you purchased this. I have been looking around and can't seem to find anything else other than Tacx. Can you recommend anything else?

I kind of fancied the fortius last year, but it was way over my budget, as was this in CRC or Wiggle. I was torn between the VR trainer and the rock & roll, but my inner nerd got the better of me.

I haven't seen anything else on the market but reckon you could hack something together with a bit of programming nouse on an open source racing game, by linking something like a cheap cateye and/or cadence meter into a speed / acceleration API. Controlling a brake by gradient would be way more tricky, and would still require something like the turbo brake on the tacx. Could be fun, but I doubt you'd do it any cheaper, particularly with steering. I'm guessing the unit is cheap as this steerer is being phased out by the newer genius style steerer which is altogether more elegant, though functionally pretty similar. Probably cheaper to manufacture as well, and definitely the way to go if you were going to make something up yourself.

Having a couple of young kids myself, muppet labs projects like this are unfortunately out of the question.

Seve OB

thanks smacl

does the Flow not come with one year free online like ther Genius is advertising?

Just one other thing you might know. The downhill is poor you mention so do you know what model will give the motor that would make that more realistic?

It looks like from my reading the Fortuis has this option. Do you have to shell out the extra €300 for this or is there something in between?

What about the Elite machines? The Realtour Supercrono is just €400 but it doesn't say much about the software or if it has the downhill option. Also I don't thing it has steering option, is this a must?

I like the look of the Genius style steerer, any idea if this would be upgradeable at a later stage or when it will be standard? I think the Genius is just a bridge to far for me! After all, knowing me, it will probably get used for a while, then sit there gathering dust! (thought hopefully not)

Actually can the Flow without the steering option be used for VR? and would it work out any cheaper? then maybe get the Genius style steerer as an add on at a later stage

I'm going to keep the credit card in the wallet for another day or two and read up a bit more.

I have the few bob to go that bit more, but I also want to be realistic and not spend stupic money on something I use only the once.

I was looking a the Kurt Kinetic also, pretty cool, but without the VR it is a shame, would have been a real winner!

PS I take it that you can use any of the machines as a standard trainer without having the PC turned on

blorg

I have a Fortius. No trainer has a downhill motor. The purpose of a trainer is to train, not to simulate a nice day out. Honestly. The purpose is to suffer, in your living room. And it is suffering. Downhills are just pointless, honestly (you will understand if you get one, the downhills I just let it do its thing until the next hill, if there was a fast forward I would have used it... why freeze in your sweat sitting like a twat on your bike not moving anywhere.) Also bear in mind a LOT of people say the steering attachment is oversensitive and a waste of time and money.

The VR is a bit of fun even without the steering attachment; I found it more fun than the video. Either to be honest is a long way off just putting on the appropriate clothing and getting out for a ride in the real world.

AFAIK you CANNOT use the Fortius as a standard trainer without the PC on. Certainly there would be no resistance control, that is all done with the software.

Lumen

The TacX Genius looks fantastic, but is also fantastically expensive.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=68497

€1300 for a turbo is nuts.

The ideal product would be VR free-motion resistance rollers, but I don't think anyone has developed such a product yet.

The bumpf for the Genius mentions upgraded VR software, also available for the Fortius. Is it much of an improvement?

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

Either to be honest is a long way off just putting on the appropriate clothing and getting out for a ride in the real world.

I think you have forgotten what Ireland is like in January.

It's dark when I leave home. It's dark when I arrive home. And it's always wet, or cold, or both.

smacl

Lumen wrote: »

The TacX Genius looks fantastic, but is also fantastically expensive.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=68497

€1300 for a turbo is nuts.

I hate to sound like a shill for bike24, but once again CRC & Wiggle are taking the proverbial when it comes to this gear. Same product is €759 on bike24. Still quite expensive, and more than I was willing to pay.

The ideal product would be VR free-motion resistance rollers, but I don't think anyone has developed such a product yet.

Should be relatively easy to put an encoder onto one of the rollers to measure speed. Coincidentally, we got mario cart for the Wii over the Christmas, and it got me thinking that there's better sensors out there for mimicing steering than wired encoders. Definitely an opportunity for muppet labs. Time to break out the beaker avatar again, Lumen?

The bumpf for the Genius mentions upgraded VR software, also available for the Fortius. Is it much of an improvement?

If you install the latest software without a license key, you can play with the features without being able to use it for actual training. This should give you a fair idea.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

I think you have forgotten what Ireland is like in January.

It's dark when I leave home. It's dark when I arrive home. And it's always wet, or cold, or both.

Well it was 30C today but I had 0C in June up the Himalayas so I reckon that sort of evens out

EDIT: </gloat>

smacl

stevieob wrote: »

does the Flow not come with one year free online like ther Genius is advertising?

1 month free, then you buy a license, €40 per annum.

Just one other thing you might know. The downhill is poor you mention so do you know what model will give the motor that would make that more realistic?

tbh, don't know much about these devices other than the one I've got. Even downhill the brake applies considerably more effort than with the brake disengaged. According to the software, I rarely drop below 100w on downhill, though I'm not at all convinced by the power output stats.

PS I take it that you can use any of the machines as a standard trainer without having the PC turned on

The unit is basically a Tacx flow, with the steering frame added on. You may need a different controller to use it stand alone. I'd say your more in depth questions would be answered here; http://forum.tacx.com/

Seve OB

smacl wrote: »

The unit is basically a Tacx flow, with the steering frame added on. You may need a different controller to use it stand alone. I'd say your more in depth questions would be answered here; http://forum.tacx.com/

Nice one, not seen that before.......... There ain't gonna be any work done tomorrow with all that reading!

Seve OB

blorg wrote: »

I have a Fortius. No trainer has a downhill motor. The purpose of a trainer is to train, not to simulate a nice day out. Honestly. The purpose is to suffer, in your living room. And it is suffering. Downhills are just pointless, honestly (you will understand if you get one, the downhills I just let it do its thing until the next hill, if there was a fast forward I would have used it... why freeze in your sweat sitting like a twat on your bike not moving anywhere.) Also bear in mind a LOT of people say the steering attachment is oversensitive and a waste of time and money.

Ah but you missed my point, I am looking to simulate, not kill myself By defination, simulation means to replicate reality

So the blurb states "The Fortius has a powerful motor brake that simulates descents and arduous climbs" but you say differently, or am I picking you up wrong?

blorg wrote: »

The VR is a bit of fun even without the steering attachment; I found it more fun than the video. Either to be honest is a long way off just putting on the appropriate clothing and getting out for a ride in the real world.

Fun is what I'm after, with the added bonus of getting Fit. I cycle in and out of work a bit (not enough ) but last week for example with the wind and rain, I just couldn't be bothered. As I have also said, with two infant kids, getting out just ain't an option all the time.

Anyway, why play football and car racing on the PS3 and not just go out and do it for real!!

blorg wrote: »

AFAIK you CANNOT use the Fortius as a standard trainer without the PC on. Certainly there would be no resistance control, that is all done with the software.

Now this is very interesting, what if you just buy the standard machine without the steerer and multiplayer option, do you not have the opportunity to add resistance here or do you just end up going round in circles so to speak?

smacl

stevieob wrote: »

Ah but you missed my point, I am looking to simulate, not kill myself By defination, simulation means to replicate reality

I'd strongly recommend having a go on one of these trainers before buying one so. I was surprised how hard I had to work to get around the VR courses the first time I tried it; it's very much an aid to training first and a video game second.

Seve OB

smacl wrote: »

I'd strongly recommend having a go on one of these trainers before buying one so. I was surprised how hard I had to work to get around the VR courses the first time I tried it; it's very much an aid to training first and a video game second.

yea i think that is a good idea alright. i very nearly just went online yesterday and splashed out!!!

anoble66

FYI - www.veclo.com seem to be doing a good deal, they are selling the fortius multiplayer for 649e and the Genius multiplayer with blacktrack steering for 799e.