Thinking about a .308!!!

steyrprohunter

Can anyone on this site recommend a .308 and there reasons why? Im currently shooting a .25-06 and 22-250 and have thought about getting a .308 after losing 2 hinds today to well placed shots. Maybe its the ammo im using( fusion120). But the blood trail is never that good when I chest shoot. Just curious if the .308 would be a better choice and what would the trajectory be like out to 300 yards? Thanks for looking

Tackleberrywho

steyrprohunter wrote: »

Can anyone on this site recommend a .308 and there reasons why? Im currently shooting a .25-06 and 22-250 and have thought about getting a .308 after losing 2 hinds today to well placed shots. Maybe its the ammo im using( fusion120). But the blood trail is never that good when I chest shoot. Just curious if the .308 would be a better choice and what would the trajectory be like out to 300 yards? Thanks for looking

Don't know what the craic is with your 25-06.
Should leave deer not a kick in them.

.308 for me is 4.12 MOA from 100 yard zero ( 2750fps MV) to a 300 yard Zero.
Ie, 2nd hash mark down on NF scope and bang.

Shot a deer this way last week 369 yards and did run 20 yards into the woods then panned out.

My 2 Cents

clivej

steyrprohunter wrote: »

Can anyone on this site recommend a .308 and there reasons why? Im currently shooting a .25-06 and 22-250 and have thought about getting a .308 after losing 2 hinds today to well placed shots. Maybe its the ammo im using( fusion120). But the blood trail is never that good when I chest shoot. Just curious if the .308 would be a better choice and what would the trajectory be like out to 300 yards? Thanks for looking

I chose the .308 after looking on the dealers shelve at the good selection of ammo that is stocked for the round. I'm shooting Hornady 155gr Balistic Tip and find its good for dropping deer on the spot.

I'm shooting to the front shoulder and spine about 1/3 down from the top of the deers back. No exit wound on the couple I'v shot, the round breaks up on hitting the shoulder blade and takes out the spine as well.

If zeroed @100y the drop to 300y is 13 1/2 inches.
200y zero will have a 8" drop to 300y

It wasn't me!

I know clivej wasn't totally happy with the performance of the Fusions on deer from his .308, so maybe try a different bullet? Federal soft points are good and cheap and I've a good few friends using them in different cartridges who all love them. Some are loaded with Speer Hot Cor bullets and others are fairly generic soft points but most like them well enough. John Lambert always had a good selection of ammo for the .25-06. Federal soft points were €125/100 last time I bought them from him, and they shoot great (just around half an inch in my gun). Others worth trying are the 117gr Sierra Gameking (very soft, will make deer bleed a lot, certainly, if the Fusions aren't making big enough holes), 115gr Nosler Partition (and let me know if you can find these - great round), 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. I doubt you'll get much better results with a .308 than a .25 on deer. Try a different bullet and see how you get on. The Gamekings were shockingly accurate for me, really great round, and they're among the cheaper good quality bullets in factory loads.

clivej

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I know clivej wasn't totally happy with the performance of the Fusions on deer from his .308, so maybe try a different bullet? Federal soft points are good and cheap and I've a good few friends using them in different cartridges who all love them. Some are loaded with Speer Hot Cor bullets and others are fairly generic soft points but most like them well enough. John Lambert always had a good selection of ammo for the .25-06. Federal soft points were €125/100 last time I bought them from him, and they shoot great (just around half an inch in my gun). Others worth trying are the 117gr Sierra Gameking (very soft, will make deer bleed a lot, certainly, if the Fusions aren't making big enough holes), 115gr Nosler Partition (and let me know if you can find these - great round), 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. I doubt you'll get much better results with a .308 than a .25 on deer. Try a different bullet and see how you get on. The Gamekings were shockingly accurate for me, really great round, and they're among the cheaper good quality bullets in factory loads.

And wot he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

daithi55

i think your problem is your chest shooting them
with a 22-250 the smallest deer calibre out there wont do much

now the 25-06 should knock them but then again if its a big hind with a big chest bone there might still be a lot of life in them

zeissman

I would try a different bullet first before changing rifles.
If I had both calibres I would use the 25-06 for all deer and keep the 22-250 for vermin.
I know a few lads who have been shooting reds and sika with the 25-06 with great results. I think they are using balistic tips.

poulo6.5

steyrprohunter wrote: »

Can anyone on this site recommend a .308 and there reasons why? Im currently shooting a .25-06 and 22-250 and have thought about getting a .308 after losing 2 hinds today to well placed shots. Maybe its the ammo im using( fusion120). But the blood trail is never that good when I chest shoot. Just curious if the .308 would be a better choice and what would the trajectory be like out to 300 yards? Thanks for looking

well lad, i am surprised to hear you are having trouble with the .25 06. might it be that you just pulled the shots or they didnt go where you want them.
i am not doubting your ability to shoot but in my experience i had a steyr prohunter licensed for a couple of years and i find them to be a great rifle but the fore end of the stock if a bit flimsy and can often touch the barrel when shooting a cause a flyer. maybe this is your problem.

also i have tried the fusion in .308 my self and the were no problem with them. they did exactly what they are supposed to, and i know 4gun uses them to great effect in his .308.


as far as recommending .308 as a calibre i can only give you my opinion and experience with it. i have had nothing but good results with it and i have used all sorts of bullets from cheep privi sift point- expensive ballistic tip stuff and they all do the job very well and once you find a bullet that you are happy with you will have no problem shooting to 300 and beyond

if you want to meet up for a shot some day you can see my .308 in action;)

foxer3640

I dont think changing caliber is going to make much of a difference tbh. I shot a sika hind in the shoulder with a 150gr federal soft point from a 300 mag last year. It did massive damage but the deer still managed to run 50 yards into heavy cover. Only for the dog it could have taken ages to find her. A good dog might be a better bet? They wont all drop on the spot.

steyrprohunter

Thanks for all the replies lads, I could never fault the .25-06 in the past and I wont now! Just checked the gun and 2 rounds landed 5 inches to the right of the bull. I guess leaving it in the back of a vehicle while travelling isnt such a great idea. As regards the blood trails, I might go back to using the Federal softpoints, as "ITWASNTME" recommended. I just looked at some pics from 3 years ago on deer that Id chest shot using these and the exit hole was nearly 1.5 inches across. A goos tracking dog is worth its weight in gold too so thats next on the wanted list!!

hunterpajero

lads if you hit any deer anywhere in the heart/lung area its gona come down it will of course run max 20 or 30yds,so i cant see how you lost two hinds,i think its down to your shot placement,maybe hitting them to far back in the stomack which will result in deer running with little or no blood trail,im using a .243 and have no problems

tfox

hunterpajero wrote: »

lads if you hit any deer anywhere in the heart/lung area its gona come down it will of course run max 20 or 30yds,so i cant see how you lost two hinds

In fairness I have chest shot hinds and had them run over 100yd, it's amazing how hard a "dead" animal can run :rolleyes:

As already said, good dog is worth everything

deerhunter1

steyrprohunter wrote: »

Can anyone on this site recommend a .308 and there reasons why? Im currently shooting a .25-06 and 22-250 and have thought about getting a .308 after losing 2 hinds today to well placed shots. Maybe its the ammo im using( fusion120). But the blood trail is never that good when I chest shoot. Just curious if the .308 would be a better choice and what would the trajectory be like out to 300 yards? Thanks for looking

308 all the way:D;), shooting nothing else,great all rounder, wide variety of ammo, and plenty of it

4gun

poulo6.5 wrote: »

well lad, i am surprised to hear you are having trouble with the .25 06. might it be that you just pulled the shots or they didnt go where you want them.
i am not doubting your ability to shoot but in my experience i had a steyr prohunter licensed for a couple of years and i find them to be a great rifle but the fore end of the stock if a bit flimsy and can often touch the barrel when shooting a cause a flyer. maybe this is your problem.

also i have tried the fusion in .308 my self and the were no problem with them. they did exactly what they are supposed to, and i know 4gun uses them to great effect in his .308.


as far as recommending .308 as a calibre i can only give you my opinion and experience with it. i have had nothing but good results with it and i have used all sorts of bullets from cheep privi sift point- expensive ballistic tip stuff and they all do the job very well and once you find a bullet that you are happy with you will have no problem shooting to 300 and beyond

if you want to meet up for a shot some day you can see my .308 in action;)

I dont know antthing about the calibre you are currently using but maybe change the brand of bullet or try a slighly different aim point on deer, before changing the gun
I was using Remmingtons core loked 150 gr last year and had a good few runners (one up to 175yds) even when the bullet passes straight through the heart.
I would imagine that not being able to find your deer leads to feeling of doubt, Hit or miss.
Two in a row would question anyones' resolve
I switched to the fusion this year and every deer I shhot this year has dropped more or less on the spot.
I would think that 120gr bullets would be have enough power to drop any thing,

Hibrion

Sika especially can run, even with the heaviest rounds. I had a large hind run 50 plus yards into thick cover after a heart/ lung shot with a 180 gr bullet out o my 308.

If I had the time to lool after it, I'd like a dog to help with tracking and that.

If you do change caliber, you can't go wrong with the 308.

tomcat220t

Guys ,place the bullet in the right spot and it will fix the runoff issues .

Hibrion

tomcat220t wrote: »

Guys ,place the bullet in the right spot and it will fix the runoff issues .

Not really, no. Shot placement can be perfect and an animal will still run a bit. Sika in particular are very hardy animals.

FISMA

Hibrion wrote: »

Not really, no. Shot placement can be perfect and an animal will still run a bit. Sika in particular are very hardy animals.

I agree, some deer are just runners.

In the states, white-tails just love to run. I've seen see bullets and arrows pass right through the boiler room and they still run.

Tackleberrywho

Shot Sika in neck yesterday and it dropped on the spot.
Shot fallow in boiler room last week and it ran 25 yards then dropped stone dead.

Both with .308.

iwsf

shot a red hind last year , the heart was in bits. She was lying when i took the shot but still managed to stand up and do 20 m. "Dead animals" can indeed travel a fair bit. Maybe you misplaced the shot buy a couple of inches ? A well hit deer will not go too far, a good tracking dog is a sure bet.
iwsf

tomcat220t

Hibrion wrote: »

Not really, no. Shot placement can be perfect and an animal will still run a bit. Sika in particular are very hardy animals.

I know there can be variables involved in hunting but what would you regard as perfect shot placement ?

Glensman

tomcat220t wrote: »

I know there can be variables involved in hunting but what would you regard as perfect shot placement ?

I know the question wasn't directed at me.
But in the case of a chest shot, any shot that takes heart, lungs or a combination of these is what I would class as perfect shot placement.

tomcat220t

Glensman wrote: »

I know the question wasn't directed at me.
But in the case of a chest shot, any shot that takes heart, lungs or a combination of these is what I would class as perfect shot placement.

Heart /Lung seems popular but still many reports of run off with this shot placement .

Glensman

tomcat220t wrote: »

Heart /Lung seems popular but still many reports of run off with this shot placement .

I had a fallow go 10 - 15 yards this season.
When I opened her both lungs were obliterated, I couldn't believe it.

It wasn't me!

tomcat220t wrote: »

Heart /Lung seems popular but still many reports of run off with this shot placement .

It's because it's the biggest target by far and is guaranteed to kill the animal quickly, even if it doesn't immobilise it instantaneously. It's the safe option.

tomcat220t

It wasn't me! wrote: »

It's because it's the biggest target by far and is guaranteed to kill the animal quickly, even if it doesn't immobilise it instantaneously. It's the safe option.

How big a kill zone is needed ?

It wasn't me!

tomcat220t wrote: »

How big a kill zone is needed ?

Depends on the shooter and circumstances (range, angle, wind, position, light levels etc.). It's the safest option though.

tomcat220t

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Depends on the shooter and circumstances (range, angle, wind, position, light levels etc.). It's the safest option though.

I dont agree .....Heart /lung works OK, but at the price of game most times running and in some cases never found .
Just look at the hunting groups thread .....almost match accuracy out of most hunting rifles :cool:
That degree of accuracy and concentration can be taken to the field .
Allowing for hunting variables ,it still puts into question how big a kill zone is needed ?
Neck or high shoulder shot is a large enough kill zone ,imo.

Deerspotter

I’ve never seen a deer run after neck or head shot.
Also, in my opinion as a non-hunter (so judge me) with a neck or head shot, if you hit it, you kill it stone dead on the spot, if you miss, you have not even grazed it.

I know it happens, but it is such a waste to hit and injure or hit and never find them!
In-fact, I wince when I read about it on here.
A .308 won't help you place the bullet better.

Glensman

Deerspotter wrote: »

I’ve never seen a deer run after neck or head shot.
Also, in my opinion as a non-hunter (so judge me) with a neck or head shot, if you hit it, you kill it stone dead on the spot, if you miss, you have not even grazed it.

I know it happens, but it is such a waste to hit and injure or hit and never find them!
In-fact, I wince when I read about it on here.
A .308 won't help you place the bullet better.

Although not taking a side in the debate, what you say isn't strictly true.
It is not uncommon to find foxes that have been headshot that survive. If the jaw is struck it can be destroyed leaving the animal to starve rather than a quick death. The same could easily happen with a deer.

I, myself, would always like the biggest kill-zone possible- but it depends on conditions. On a relatively calm day, off a bi-pod then I would be going for a head or neck shot to about 230yards-ish. I can't make this shot of sticks so wouldn't try...

Deerspotter

I understand your point and don't doubt it could happen. I've just never seen it happen. I have seen all deer simply deflate on the spot from a neck shot.
The HCAP strongly promote the larger heart/lung kill zone, which is fair enough for lots of reasons, so I guess it is smart not to debate the kill zone.

Vegeta

Pinning a deer to the spot using a high shoulder shot is a great way to stop getting runners.

I just don't have much faith in the average shooters ability

tomcat220t wrote: »

Just look at the hunting groups thread .....almost match accuracy out of most hunting rifles :cool:
That degree of accuracy and concentration can be taken to the field.

Match shooting but mostly in match conditions. Looking at the hunting rifle group photos most are taken with bi-pods, probably on level ground with loads of time and no pressure. Can't question the accuracy that's for sure, some great shooting in there. But people put up their best groups to make themselves and their gear look good, it's human nature, I do the same myself. I don't see anyone showing pictures of how badly their rifle shot in certain conditions Any sitting, kneeling or standing groups in there?

Also as a group we probably read the most about shooting, are well informed, practice a lot and have top notch equipment. I know lads and if their rifle is shooting 3 or 4 inch groups at a hundred that'll do em.

There are clearly people here who can bring match accuracy to the field but I'd say the average shooting performance would leave a lot to be desired. Look at the hcap shooting test, a lot of guys struggle with that.

Allowing for hunting variables ,it still puts into question how big a kill zone is needed ?

For some lads, broad side of a barn comes to mind.
I'll be the first to say I have had days like that myself. Missed 4 handy foxes out lamping one night and when I checked the rifle prone on a bi-pod, where I was used to firing it, all was well.

clivej

Deerspotter wrote: »

I’ve never seen a deer run after neck or head shot.
Also, in my opinion as a non-hunter (so judge me) with a neck or head shot, if you hit it, you kill it stone dead on the spot, if you miss, you have not even grazed it.

I know it happens, but it is such a waste to hit and injure or hit and never find them!
In-fact, I wince when I read about it on here.
A .308 won't help you place the bullet better.

A head shot is a brain shot where dead is dead. Miss the brain and a runner it will be.

Same goes for a neck shot which is a spine shot.
Miss the spine and say hit the wind pipe and again off the deer will go.

The couple I'v hit this season were all shoulder shots where the shoulder blade will shatter and the spine is just behind the shoulder blade so that is a clean kill.


deer1_skeleton.jpg

clivej

deer-anatomy.jpg

silverfox1

I don't think your going to get any better results with a 308 over the 25-06 especially if your hunting sika or fallow. I had two 308 rifles and hated them. I found the bullet didn't expand enough on heart lung shots. Got a 270 and never looked back. I wouldn't be a fan of fusion ammo either.

tomcat220t

Vegeta wrote: »

Pinning a deer to the spot using a high shoulder shot is a great way to stop getting runners.

I just don't have much faith in the average shooters ability



Match shooting but mostly in match conditions. Looking at the hunting rifle group photos most are taken with bi-pods, probably on level ground with loads of time and no pressure. Can't question the accuracy that's for sure, some great shooting in there. But people put up their best groups to make themselves and their gear look good, it's human nature, I do the same myself. I don't see anyone showing pictures of how badly their rifle shot in certain conditions Any sitting, kneeling or standing groups in there?

Also as a group we probably read the most about shooting, are well informed, practice a lot and have top notch equipment. I know lads and if their rifle is shooting 3 or 4 inch groups at a hundred that'll do em.

There are clearly people here who can bring match accuracy to the field but I'd say the average shooting performance would leave a lot to be desired. Look at the hcap shooting test, a lot of guys struggle with that.



For some lads, broad side of a barn comes to mind.
I'll be the first to say I have had days like that myself. Missed 4 handy foxes out lamping one night and when I checked the rifle prone on a bi-pod, where I was used to firing it, all was well.

I agree with most of what your saying !
3-4" groups is fine@ 100 yards if one is using that as max range on deer ,imo.
A high shoulder shot leaves most room for error ,imo .
My point is,if a heart/lung shot is taken right it leaves a good chance of a deer running off .
If a high shoulder shot is taken right is leaves a deer dead on the spot .

Hibrion

I usually go with a heart and lungs shot. I know they can run a bit more that way, but I don't like head shots on deer as the slightest error can leave a deer with a broken jaw, running a lot farther than 50m, and starving to death.

If I had a range finder, I might be a bit more confortable with such shots, but I don't.

Also, lately I've been taking the 30-30 out and I only have iron sights on it, so heart and lung is the best option there too.

I don't want to debate shot placement though. There have been so many threads on this. Each to their own I say.

garv123

clivej wrote: »

A head shot is a brain shot where dead is dead. Miss the brain and a runner it will be.

Same goes for a neck shot which is a spine shot.
Miss the spine and say hit the wind pipe and again off the deer will go.

The couple I'v hit this season were all shoulder shots where the shoulder blade will shatter and the spine is just behind the shoulder blade so that is a clean kill.

I havent seen any deer missing their mouths though before or heard stories about it. ive seen a few pictures of it online but there's a lot of deer injured with heart lung attempts too. when we were out during the holidays one of the lads shot a doe with three legs. she was missing the front left leg which was gone from high up. looked like someone missed and hit her leg. she couldnt walk well and was down on the spot with a neck shot.

Neck shots can work well because with a single shot you can, shatter the spine, cut the windpipe and major arteries going to the brain.
but if you clip the neck you might just cut the windpipe and arteries, the deer may go straight down or just like the heart lung shot, it may run abit.


Still imo conditions, rest, wind and distance should all be taken into consideration before taking any shot.