Taxi driver holds 25 public service licences

DonJose

Could someone tell me how can one person hold 25 public service licences and how can these licenses and cars be rented out?

Taxi driver to sue 'Prime Time' after losing 25 licences

A TAXI driver featured in RTE's 'Prime Time Investigates' programme is to sue the national broadcaster for defamation.

It comes after Oluwaseyi Okerayi's successful legal challenge against a decision by the National Transport Authority to suspended his PSV licences.

For several years Mr Okerayi operated a business by hiring out both taxi plates and cars.

Last May the NTA suspended "with immediate effect" the 25 public service licences he held after the 'Prime Time' programme aired.

The programme alleged he rented out cars that were unroadworthy to individuals who did not have licences.

Mr Okerayi, who denied any wrongdoing, brought a High Court action aimed at quashing the NTA's decision.

Mr Okerayi's lawyers argued the suspension of his licences was "a kneejerk response to a sensationalist and inaccurate TV programme carried out without proper investigation".

There was no legal basis to continue the suspension, it was further argued....

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/taxi-driver-to-sue-prime-time-after-losing-25-licences-2982087.html

yosser hughes

Jaysus! Mr. Okerayi's has done fierce well for himself! 25 licences costs a fair few quid.

Stripey Cat

What has he done which is illegal?

yosser hughes

Indeed, I saw it. I'm just wondering a bit about this mans background. How did he accumulate that much money to get these licences? How did he gain the right to live in this country? Are the gardai not investigating this? The article makes no mention of a garda investigation.

foggy_lad

yosser hughes wrote: »

Indeed, I saw it. I'm just wondering a bit about this mans background. How did he accumulate that much money to get these licences? How did he gain the right to live in this country? Are the gardai not investigating this? The article makes no mention of a garda investigation.

The reports states he moved from Nigeria in 2002 so he is unlikely to be an asylum seeker who arrived with nothing and possibly brought money with him from Nigeria, although having several taxi licences will bring in quite a large income relatively quickly as well as any other business he has. have the revenue commissioners been interested in his affairs?

Stripey Cat

Has he actually done anything illegal?

Mister Dread

What visa did he have in 2002?

foggy_lad

Stripey Cat wrote: »

Has he actually done anything illegal?

No, AFAIK he has not been charged with any crime.

foggy_lad

http://irishtaxiadvertising.com/list.php?startLimit=1380&limitPerPage=30&sortBy=name&sortOrder=DESC

He seems to be advertising already on DoneDeal according to the Irish Taxi Forum
http://intaxi.org/forum/index.php?topic=1403.0

Orion

He is starting legal action against RTE for that programme following his successful case in the High Court against the suspension of his licenses. The action that wasn't contested by the NTA. Which implies he was doing nothing illegal.

wrt to the main question - anyone can hold many licenses and rent them out. This has always been the case. All drivers need their own PSV license as well.

yosser hughes

Orion wrote: »

He is starting legal action against RTE for that programme following his successful case in the High Court against the suspension of his licenses. The action that wasn't contested by the NTA. Which implies he was doing nothing illegal.

wrt to the main question - anyone can hold many licenses and rent them out. This has always been the case. All drivers need their own PSV license as well.

Why the NTA did not contest is beyond me. He contested the suspension of his licences as they did it without inspecting the vehicles themsleves first and appeared to rely on the primetime programme.
All of this does not mean he was not operating illegally. It just means the NTA messed up big time and did not follow a correct procedure.

ResearchWill

Mister Dread wrote: »

What visa did he have in 2002?

What has this todo with the case in hand.

But in answer he could have entered the country on a visa, or he may have sought asylum. As it is pre 2005, I would hazard a guess that he may have an Irish citizen child and was allowed to remain based on the IBC05 scheme.

It's funny in the case involving RTE and the priest, I don't remember anyone asking how that priest got into Africa, was he illegal etc.

ResearchWill

yosser hughes wrote: »

Why the NTA did not contest is beyond me. He contested the suspension of his licences as they did it without inspecting the vehicles themsleves first and appeared to rely on the primetime programme.
All of this does not mean he was not operating illegally. It just means the NTA messed up big time and did not follow a correct procedure.

That is all Judicial Review deals with, was the decision made correctly. The High Court does not substitute it's own decision for the NTA, it just says the decision was incorrectly made. There is nothing to stop the NTA from conducting a proper investigation if they now wish. Also they would not have contested the matter, as it was more than likely they had made a mistake, so by doing as they did they kept legal costs down.

Orion

yosser hughes wrote: »

All of this does not mean he was not operating illegally. It just means the NTA messed up big time and did not follow a correct procedure.

It also means that as far as the law ins concerned he has done nothing illegal. He has his licenses back and is operating legally.

Trial by media is not a valid method of prosecution in this country afaik.

ResearchWill

yosser hughes wrote: »

Well, from watching the prime time programme I would say yes he was doing several things that are illegal.

After Prime Times recent scrapes in the Four Courts, I think I would rather wait till there is a proper investigation, to decide if he in any way acted illegally.

yosser hughes

ResearchWill wrote: »

That is all Judicial Review deals with, was the decision made correctly. The High Court does not substitute it's own decision for the NTA, it just says the decision was incorrectly made. There is nothing to stop the NTA from conducting a proper investigation if they now wish. Also they would not have contested the matter, as it was more than likely they had made a mistake, so by doing as they did they kept legal costs down.

That is my reading of it too.

TJJP

My my, that was a quick clean up of this thread with no warnings or infractions given! Prime Time alleged offences; not sure these were ever proven in law, were they?

Prime time’s own proven public record is open to question so in this case I’d defer to innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, all outraged morals aside.

foggy_lad

The prime time show here, check out from about 22minutes.

http://www.rte.ie/news/av/2011/0516/media-2959607.html

Victor

TJJP wrote: »

My my, that was a quick clean up of this thread with no warnings or infractions given!

Folks, can I remind people to stick to the facts. The facts of this case are in dispute and there is a suggestion of defamation proceedings. Please do not repeat allegations made by others.

---

yosser hughes wrote: »

Jaysus! Mr. Okerayi's has done fierce well for himself! 25 licences costs a fair few quid.

I think a licence costs €5,000. Many people have money. I understand some individuals have more than 50 licences.

Stripey Cat wrote: »

What has he done which is illegal?

It would seem little or nothing. The Irish Times says: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0107/1224309942352.html

He said a number of his cars have been tested by the Garda and the NTA. While minor defects were detected in a couple of cars only one was found to be unroadworthy. He also rejected any suggestion in the programme that his cars passed their NCT tests due to impropriety on his part.

yosser hughes wrote: »

I'm just wondering a bit about this mans background.

Why this particular person?

How did he accumulate that much money to get these licences?

Shock! Business man has money!

How did he gain the right to live in this country?

Who knows. I'm sure that the NTA has satisfied itself on the matter.

Are the gardai not investigating this? The article makes no mention of a garda investigation.

Then perhaps there is no investigation.

foggy_lad wrote: »

have the revenue commissioners been interested in his affairs?

AFAIK, taxi licence holders are required to have a Tax Clearance Certificate. I'm sure Revenue have paid the appropriate level of attention based on the industry and size of business. However, outside specific allegations, I don't know why you are raising this.

Mister Dread wrote: »

What visa did he have in 2002?

Who cares about 2002?

yosser hughes wrote: »

All of this does not mean he was not operating illegally.

Innocent until proven guilty.

foggy_lad

Maybe the NTA and Regulator need to look at banning the whole practice of renting taxis and plates, meters and signs and people owning multiple licenses.

DDigital

Folks, can I remind people to stick to the facts. The facts of this case are in dispute and there is a suggestion of defamation proceedings. Please do not repeat allegations made by others.

The only "facts" I got were from a Primetime Programme. Suddenly the lad is a victim, the NTA have gone awol and he's suing for defamation. I really can't wait to actually hear the "FACTS".

ResearchWill

DDigital wrote: »

The only "facts" I got were from a Primetime Programme. Suddenly the lad is a victim, the NTA have gone awol and he's suing for defamation. I really can't wait to actually hear the "FACTS".

The prime time program that gave us the facts that a priest had fathered a child, when DNA proved he had not. So there is no proof that the allegations contained in the Prime Time programe are yet facts. What the prime time programe gave us is allegations no more yet.

DDigital

ResearchWill wrote: »

The prime time program that gave us the facts that a priest had fathered a child, when DNA proved he had not. So there is no proof that the allegations contained in the Prime Time programe are yet facts. What the prime time programe gave us is allegations no more yet.

Hence my use of " surrounding the word facts, which made "facts". Lets not get too carried away on browbeating. We may yet be on the same side once real facts are actually established.

Victor

foggy_lad wrote: »

Maybe the NTA and Regulator need to look at banning the whole practice of renting taxis and plates, meters and signs and people owning multiple licenses.

As far as I know, while people can keep their existing licences, but they may not acquire more licences.

foggy_lad

Victor wrote: »

As far as I know, while people can keep their existing licences, but they may not acquire more licences.

There are people with many more licenses than this guy has so are they running taxi businesses giving the meters and signs to drivers who rent them on a weekly or monthly basis? Should this be allowed? There is no way of knowing who was driving any particular car in the event of a complaint unless you get the drivers number as well as the taxi roof sign number.

The drivers should be licensed and a list of acceptable vehicles published and as long as the driver is in a car off the list that is roadworthy he is legitimate, multiple licenses should be banned immediately as it encourages unlicensed and banned drivers into renting wrecks for the weekend to make a few euro.

One owner-driver - one car = one licence.

BrianD

My read of the coverage is that there are "technicalities" involved here and due process wasn't followed to the letter by the regulator.

Still it just shows you what a state the taxi industry is at the moment and that it's time to tighten up and raise standards overall.

We need to see the kind of set of standards similar to the US or Australia. This will mean that it will move from an industry that seems to be largely run by individuals into one that will be dominated by companies ( I know that there are already some big company players already).

Stuff as simple as that to have a taxi on the road you have to buy a taxi and not any car that you can stick a roof sign on.

dowlingm

Dublin has to be careful with any move towards owner-operatorship. Toronto introduced owner-operator licenses with the intention of getting rid of transferable licenses later but that never happened. Now there are two classes, the guys who rent out licenses which have a massive resale value and the guys who owner-operate who are competing with the rented cars going 24h/day and with no money coming in if they go sick.

Any such scheme must entail ALL licenses going to a single standard over a guaranteed period and owner-operators being allowed to rent out licenses for short periods but not permanently rent out/sell the license.

Victor

I'm not enthused by the concept of a regime that is owner-driver. I would much prefer some form of self-regulation as well as the statutory regulation, even if that means co-ops of drivers instead of companies hiring out cars, where there is some form of professional development, supervision, joint buying, etc.

robd

yosser hughes wrote: »

Jaysus! Mr. Okerayi's has done fierce well for himself! 25 licences costs a fair few quid.

Depends on the license:

http://www.taxitaxi.ie/how_to_become_a_taxi_driver.html

Wheelchair taxi is €125. Normal €6,300 (today was cheaper in past)
Meter and roof sign €799
Insurance €3000-5000.
NCT €90
Car Purchase ?

Says taxis rent for €350-380 per week.

Wouldn't have been that hard to build up cash and licenses in the earlier days before recession kicked in and industry became swamped. Recession was probably to his advantage as more people looking to get in on cheap.

The business model seems sound to me.

Main issues were lax regulation of regulator and also of NCT operating company whereby bribes could be paid to get unroadworthy vehicle past. If he did this then he too was breaking the law but probably not in breech of his licenses.

n97 mini

In the programme did he not rent out a cab with a fake NCT to someone who had no PSV licence. He also failed to check if that person had insurance etc.

If RTE decide to fight this one I think he could find his background thoroughly examined by their legal team, and the media, without much attention paid to political correctness.

foggy_lad

n97 mini wrote: »

In the programme did he not rent out a cab with a fake NCT to someone who had no PSV licence. He also failed to check if that person had insurance etc.

If RTE decide to fight this one I think he could find his background thoroughly examined by their legal team, and the media, without much attention paid to political correctness.

In the programme the cars were examined by not one but two independant assessors, one being the AA and they were found to be unroadworthy, the AA even refused to finish one of the assessments because the car was in their opinion dangerous to drive.

All the cars tested had valid nct markers but the AA were of the opinion that the cars had not just become unroadworthy since being nct tested.

Stripey Cat

That priest must be glad that RTE didn't just accuse him of rape, since people seem to believe everything that Primetime tells them, and a rape allegation would have have been harder to disprove.

yosser hughes

Stripey Cat wrote: »

That priest must be glad that RTE didn't just accuse him of rape, since people seem to believe everything that Primetime tells them, and a rape allegation would have have been harder to disprove.

Oh Christ Did you see the programme? There is a lot of pussy footing and denial going on in this thread. Dancing around the issue with PC nonsense.
Might as well close the thread now.

billythepig

taxi licences are not worth a toss these days,
every feckin african family in ireland has at least 1

Victor

billythepig wrote: »

taxi licences are not worth a toss these days,
every feckin african family in ireland has at least 1

Gratuitous exaggeration not welcome.

dublinman1990

n97 mini wrote: »

In the programme did he not rent out a cab with a fake NCT to someone who had no PSV licence. He also failed to check if that person had insurance etc.

If RTE decide to fight this one I think he could find his background thoroughly examined by their legal team, and the media, without much attention paid to political correctness.

There are a few points that has come into mind?

Firstly, it is a no brainer IMO, that a taxi driver who gets caught with no insurance who attempts to drives their car on the road would immediately lose their licence. Mr. Okerayi's reputation is not at risk here because he knew what response to say to him.

That response should/would be......

NO PSV LICENCE? WELL, I'M SORRY, NO WORK FOR YOU! That's the way it is!

Secondly, there is another point that once Taxi drivers have their PSV licence, they are meant to keep with them a PSV Badge number when out on a shift. Is that number printed on the licence? Is that practice still in the industry today other than taxis?

Thirdly, double jobbing in the taxi industry and with other employment. We know in last May's programme, there was a taxi driver who is/was still working full time as a bus driver in DB's Phibsboro/Broadstone Garage. I know that he was one of two african males mentioned in the programme. I don't think he is the guy who held those licences?

IMO, For a health and safety point of view, I wouldn't want to see a bus driver doing a 12 hour shift on a bus, than do more hours on a taxi no matter how long it was, the circumstances for him even, though serious already, would be very damaging to the extreme.

Andrew33

Regulations coming this year will ban the rental of taxi plates.
Also, owner will have to register (presumably online) all renters details with the NTA. The industry is being pushed (despite the NTA's denials) towards the New York model of cab companies owning the cars and drivers being paid a wage, this won't happen overnight but it'll happen.

meanmachine3

if i remember correctly the taxi regulator gave an interview on R.T.E. news shortly after the programme was aired saying they were going to investigate this guy for breaches regarding having so many taxi licences/plates under the one name.
thats where to should've got this guy and nailed him by revoking all this licences.

Andrew33

meanmachine3 wrote: »

if i remember correctly the taxi regulator gave an interview on R.T.E. news shortly after the programme was aired saying they were going to investigate this guy for breaches regarding having so many taxi licences/plates under the one name.
thats where to should've got this guy and nailed him by revoking all this licences.

There's nothing illegal about owning multiple taxi plates!! That's a bit like saying a coach operator can't own more than one bus.

The problem is, the regs currently allow the car to be registered to one person, the plate licence to another person and the insurance can be held by a third person!
What the proposed regs will do is require car/plate/insurance to be registered to one person/company. It's seems so bleedin' obvious and yet it's still not done!

meanmachine3

Andrew33 wrote: »

There's nothing illegal about owning multiple taxi plates!! That's a bit like saying a coach operator can't own more than one bus.

difference between the two is the coach operator has their own staff and you know who's driving you around. as shown in prime time this guy rented out his cars to someone who doesn't even have a P.S.V. license. all he was interested in was making a quick buck. the problem with this country is theres way to many loop holes in every damn thing. the revenue are quick enough to target pensioners now they should be going after this guy for every cent. after all he is in the "private hire" business. only difference is instead of hiring out machinery he hires out taxi's.
just a quick few questions.
who is liable for a defective taxi, the guy that rents it or the owner who rents them out?
taxi driver claim for alot of things mainly V.A.T. again who claims this the guy who rents the taxi or the owner of the 25 taxi's being rented out?

Spook_ie

meanmachine3 wrote: »

difference between the two is the coach operator has their own staff and you know who's driving you around. as shown in prime time this guy rented out his cars to someone who doesn't even have a P.S.V. license. all he was interested in was making a quick buck. the problem with this country is theres way to many loop holes in every damn thing. the revenue are quick enough to target pensioners now they should be going after this guy for every cent. after all he is in the "private hire" business. only difference is instead of hiring out machinery he hires out taxi's.
just a quick few questions.
who is liable for a defective taxi, the guy that rents it or the owner who rents them out?
taxi driver claim for alot of things mainly V.A.T. again who claims this the guy who rents the taxi or the owner of the 25 taxi's being rented out?

Very few taxi drivers would be VAT registered and able to reclaim VAT

dublinman1990

I just found this from the taxi regulator.

IMPORTANT: Do not purchase a vehicle for use as an SPSV unless you are sure that it will meet the required standards.

Do not operate the vehicle as an SPSV until it has passed the Initial Suitability Inspection. Operating an SPSV without a current licence and valid tamper-proof licence discs could result in a fine of up to€5,000.

That may answered your question Victor.

Stripey Cat

yosser hughes wrote: »

Oh Christ Did you see the programme? There is a lot of pussy footing and denial going on in this thread. Dancing around the issue with PC nonsense.
Might as well close the thread now.

Which programme? The one whioch claimed that a priest had fathered a child? Or the other one?

It seems you believe every word of one of them, how do you feel about the other one?

older i get better i was

foggy_lad wrote: »

The reports states he moved from Nigeria in 2002 so he is unlikely to be an asylum seeker who arrived with nothing and possibly brought money with him from Nigeria, although having several taxi licences will bring in quite a large income relatively quickly as well as any other business he has. have the revenue commissioners been interested in his affairs?

are the rev comissioners interested in "any" taxi drivers. urban myth says they all pay a nominal few hundred in tax per anum.

n97 mini

Stripey Cat wrote: »

Which programme? The one whioch claimed that a priest had fathered a child? Or the other one?

It seems you believe every word of one of them, how do you feel about the other one?

Seriously, give it a rest. This has nothing to do with priests, nuns, or anyone else fathering children.

battries not included

Will he be seeking compensation?

foggy_lad

irishtaxi.org is a mine of information and thanks to the person who compiled the list in the post below showing multiple licence holders.

http://irishtaxi.org/?p=2103

-Chris-

Discussions on Irishtaxi.org can stay on Irishtaxi.org, thanks.

AlekSmart

Stripey Cat wrote: »

Which programme? The one whioch claimed that a priest had fathered a child? Or the other one?

It seems you believe every word of one of them, how do you feel about the other one?

The major difference between the two PTI programmes was the deeply flawed Priestly Paternity one did not actually capture the priest performing the act,but rather captured a particularly inept production team and RTE management failure.

The Taxi programme,however, allowed Mr Okerayi to fully outline and display his wares and easy-going attitude live on-camera,whilst it's production team refrained from actually doing a Judge,jury and executioner job on the gentleman.

I suppose to address Stripey Cat's concerns,it can be admitted that the only common denominator in the two programmes is the "African" angle...which appears to be causing a degree of Jesuitical mentalis restrictio centred on some less-than-obvious potential sub-issue or other.....;)

AlekSmart

battries not included wrote: »

Will he be seeking compensation?

I'm reminded of the late James Gogarty's response when asked if he's be gettin a reciept from Ray Burke's reps......:)

Stripey Cat

AlekSmart wrote: »

I suppose to address Stripey Cat's concerns,it can be admitted that the only common denominator in the two programmes is the "African" angle...

Do you really think that that's the only similarity?

It seems another one is that they share a very credulous audience, and also later court judgements which found in their subject's favour.