erratic breathing

bfocusd

Hi I'm wondering if anyone can help, I took a pup in when she was 5 weeks old as the mother tried to kill the entire litter, the dog has since she was tiny every so often done this thing that I can only explain as panicky breathing and snorting while trying to breath, she curls her back up like a cat when it happens and puts her head down towards the floor. It usually lasts around 10 seconds then she's fine after it.
It's always out if the blue and she's fine when running around or laying about.

The thing is she only did it every 3-4 month's and now she's almost 10 years old and it's much more frequent the past 2 months. One day we came home and she got excited and it happened 3 times in a row.

before anyone says why hasn't she been to the vet, I've had her at the vets several times and different vets too, none of them can give me any idea what it is, mostly because they say they need to see it happen to diagnose it, I've video recorded it and shown them and they insist they need to check her over while it's happening.


I'm lost with what to do, when it happens she gets scared, I tried to see if she wanted water when it happens, but she can't drink, but usually i just try hold her to calm her down, it will stop out of nowhere and she will run along without a bother after it, like nothing happened.

Can anyone give me some direction as its getting really difficult now.

I wish I could get a vet to see her when its happening maybe they could diagnose it once and for all.

andreac

Have you had her referred to the vet college at UCD at all yet?

star-pants

Obviously it's hard for people to guess what it might be, as andreac said - have you been referred anywhere?

I do wonder though, does it sound/look like the dog in this? if you skip to 0:57 and watch / listen to the dog.

bfocusd

andreac wrote: »

Have you had her referred to the vet college at UCD at all yet?

No not yet, I tried various vets all said pretty much the same, not one said a thing about referring her to them, how would I go about that? She looks physically fine and the vets checked her lungs etc.

Allgäuerin

What breed is your dog?

bfocusd

star-pants wrote: »

Obviously it's hard for people to guess what it might be, as andreac said - have you been referred anywhere?

I do wonder though, does it sound/look like the dog in this? if you skip to 0:57 and watch / listen to the dog.

Oh I understand, I'm trying to record it again but you would need the camera on 24/7 to catch it.

About the video your spot on! That's what happens, my dog would.move her head a tad more an it would sound more aggressive.

Do you know what it is? And what I can do to help her?

star-pants

Well, I'm not a vet, but I know that video is of what's called Reverse Sneezing - as far as I know it's more typical in certain breeds, with smaller heads like the one in the video (I could be wrong).

I have two Lhasa Apsos, and my younger one Daisy does that, sometimes she'll get it a few times a week, the you could go maybe months without it happening.
She gets quite scared by it, and her little legs are shaking after it.

I explained it to my vet after the first two times and he said it was most likely reverse sneezing. He did check out her nostrils and throat etc.
She can get it randomly, but can also get it when over-excited or eating too quickly.
My other Lhasa has had it maybe a handful of times, very uncommon for her to get it, but again, when she's excited.

The way my vet told me to help stop it was to block her nostrils, this forces the dog to breathe in through their mouth. The funny breathing is caused by the flap in the back of the nose/throat to go the wrong way (I think) so making them breathe in forces it the right way. (As least that's how I understand it).
This works with my dogs, I just block her nostrils with my thumb til she's forced to breathe the right way and it stops it pretty quickly. Then a little cuddle and all's well.

Again, I'm not saying that's exactly what your dog has, but it does sound like it could be.

bfocusd

Allgäuerin wrote: »

What breed is your dog?

She's not really any breed, her mother was a jack Russel, as for the father god only knows.
the owner of the mother let her wander and she even left the pups out the back at 5 weeks old with the mother in march! No kennel nothing!
When the mother was attacking the pups we were in the house next door and jumped the wall and took the pups away.
So I kept the one that had all the cuts from being bitten, she's a dote and I'm glad I took her!

If I was to describe her she would be a tall jack Russel with lots of small spots.. Haha

bfocusd

@star_pants

It's the closest I've gotten to what she does, I will try the nostril thing next time it happens, plus I will be switching vets! I always thought it was something really serious, and it's difficult to watch cause she gets scared. Is your dog doing it more frequently as she gets older?

ISDW

It sounds just like reverse sneezing, which is quite common. Very worrying that the vets you consulted didn't pick up on it.

andreac

A lot of dogs regularly do that, mine included and as Star pants mentioned, you just block the nostrils and it stops it and allows them to start breathing again normally. Its not a serious thing.

star-pants

bfocusd wrote: »

It's the closest I've gotten to what she does, I will try the nostril thing next time it happens, plus I will be switching vets! I always thought it was something really serious, and it's difficult to watch cause she gets scared. Is your dog doing it more frequently as she gets older?

I can understand that, I was quite worried when it happened the first time because I didn't know how to help or what was going on. I felt awful I couldn't help because Daisy does get quite scared and seeks comfort.
You do have to make sure you cover her nostrils, some say to pinch the nose but that doesn't seem to work as well as my thumb covering the nostrils on Daisy.

I've not noticed it getting worse/better, as I'd said, some times you could go months without any, then you could get a few in close succession.
I think sometimes dust and things or allergies/slight cold can set it off too?

ISDW wrote: »

It sounds just like reverse sneezing, which is quite common. Very worrying that the vets you consulted didn't pick up on it.

Aye I would think it odd that the vet never thought of it or mentioned it.
I only had to explain to my vet what she did and attempt to recreate the sound and he knew what I meant. He then told me how to stop it.

ISDW

It is very frightening to witness if you don't know whats going on, the first time one of my dogs did it I really panicked.

Try the nose blocking technique next time, I also talk soothingly to them, as I think maybe its scarey for the dog as well, a bit like a panic attack or hyperventilating.:)

Allgäuerin

I was asking because its very common with Westies. All of my Westies are doing it. It was quiet shocking for me when my first Westie started doing it and I still feel not comfortable when it happens, but all vets I have asked told me it sounds worse then it is an it does not harm the dog in anyway.

bfocusd

ISDW wrote: »

It sounds just like reverse sneezing, which is quite common. Very worrying that the vets you consulted didn't pick up on it.

Maybe it was me trying to describe it, I was 13 when I got her so maybe they just thought I was wasting their time..
I took her to the vets when she was about 1 and they insinuated I had fed her chicken bones!

I've also an African grey and she hates that vets, they both got mites from the dust and work being done at home, the vet wasn't too impressed when the parrot took a chunk out of her, it took 3 people to put a drop on the back of the parrots neck! Haha

Im going to switch vets, the main one I went to I seen a few vets there and they never gave much help. She's never had any other illnesses just needed booster needles.

That's kinda put my mind at ease, I will try calm her down and see how she does with the nostril thing.

thank you for all your help bfocusd

Zapperzy

I'm another one who has a dog that has reversed sneezed, he's only ever done it 2 or 3 times in nearly 4 years (and all within the same week about 2 years ago). First time I heard it I was nearly rushing him to the vets thinking he was having some sort of a fit or heart attack, I agree it's scary to watch. If it's something she's done all her life I wouldn't worry, if it suddenly comes on a dog and persists I would be having it further investigated just in case.

DBB

star-pants wrote: »

Aye I would think it odd that the vet never thought of it or mentioned it.
I only had to explain to my vet what she did and attempt to recreate the sound and he knew what I meant. He then told me how to stop it.

*snort*
See? You've gone and made me make the noise, I'm laughing so hard at the thought of you having to recreate this to your vet :D

Yes OP, my own dogs and plenty of rescues I've taken in have done the same, including a Westie this very morning.
A couple of observations on it.
First, it is more common, it seems, in brachycephalic breeds (short-nosed) or any mix of dogs with a brachycephalic breed somewhere in the parentage. Obviously, this is not across the board, but a tendency. It is probably something to do with the soft palate being too long for the length of the face, and this is what's causing the temporary blockage of the airway.
Exceptions I have seen myself are Westies: they're not considered brachycephalic, but I have noticed a serious tendency towards very round-faced, short-nosed Westies in recent years... they look very cute but I think this is causing a higher incidence of reverse-sneezing in the breed.
I also fostered a Boxer X some time ago who had the same length muzzle as a Labrador, but she was prone to reverse sneezing too.
Another predisposer to it, and please don't take offence anyone here who's dog has reverse-sneezed, is being overweight. This is not to say that a reverse-sneezing dog must be overweight, rather, overweight dogs seem to be more likely to suffer.
I also wonder do dogs do it if they're starting to develop kennel cough, or have a mild allergic reaction to something, causing inflammation in the throat?
It does seem odd that your vet didn't pick up on it though, as it is very common

bfocusd

Honestly I've given up on them, I heard recently too that they are known for being useless and it's not just me, but as I said I was 13 at the time for her first checkup and I didn't really know where else to bring her and as her file was there for needles I guess I kept going, the other opinions weren't much better.

I've heard of short nosed breeds having many breathing problems but never heard much before about long nosed dogs.

I'm just delighted it's not as serious, it was kinda underlying, but only happened a few times a year, as it was more frequent recently I started to panic.

A relative's dog strolled out the door and was picked up and put in the pound, when she got him home he had kennel cough, this was about 4 months ago, could that be a underlying possibility? I made sure I wasn't around him so not to pass it on but I know others who passed from house to house without any though of the bug!

She hasnt been coughing really, she did have a dry nose for a couple of days so I kept her in and lots of water, and vitamin food, it's back to the usual black wet nose now.

Roxbb

My 2 cavs do it and my beagle...I've been told on the beagle that's it's a long pallet that causes it for her so I have to hold her nose and gently push her nose towards her chest to help move it...but the 2 cavs it's reverse sneezing but it sounds exactly the same when any of them do it..
I was terrified when it first happened I thought she was choking! There are some very serious cases where operations have been done basically they just shorten the pallet...

bfocusd

So I've been waiting for it to happen again and it did so today, I got to her very quickly, she had just come down the stairs (that may have caused it?) and was standing beside me.

It started as usual and I put my fingers over her nose and it went away very quickly! I was surprised how quick it stopped, she didn't pull away either, she normally would lick your hand or pull away, I think she was frightened and when it stopped I got a little thank you lick on the arm (she does the same when I put her food down, then eats it) she sat beside me for ages then! everyone around her has been told what to do also, just incase.

Thanks for all your help with this, much appreciated

DBB

bfocusd wrote: »

I think she was frightened and when it stopped I got a little thank you lick on the arm (she does the same when I put her food down, then eats it)

Awww! That is the sweetest thing I've heard in a while! What a sweetie!

toadfly

Aw she sounds adorable!

Tilly does that, it only ever happened after eating but has started again the last month several times a day. Have tried blocking her nose but she just holds her breath and then starts again! Maybe I need to hold it longer? It's starting to freak me out.

It's usually when we come home and while I'm getting food ready so when she's excited.

Her weight is fine, she tends to gain weight easily but I watch what she eats very close and it's normal now.

star-pants

TillyGirl - if she's excited whilst you're getting the food ready, try and wait until she's calm before feeding here. Or if you feed her dry food, keep a few pieces aside and feed her those one by one so she's not 'OMG MY FOOD NOMNOMNOM' into the bowl.

My older girl Lily has done that eating her food too quick, she *hates* when I block her nose, she tries to squirm away so it might be that you do need to just hold it a little longer (if it's definitely reverse sneezing) -- it could be food caught cuz she's just eating too fast. Lily's done that too!