Coping with an unexpected change in my future

LegacyUser

I'm a 21 year old currently in my final year of a BA in English and History (some of you might say that's my issue right there ). I was considering doing a Masters in History with a view to continuing on in academia and eventually becoming a lecturer or research historian. Of course, I was relying on the postgrad grant system to help me through such an endeavour. For my last three years in college I've been aiming towards this, working my arse off to get first class honours so that I can get into a good postgrad.

The first speedbump was when the Budget scrapped the postgrad maintenance. Without maintenance I would not be in college. As the grant covers only my rent and bills, my parents have been giving me money for food while I've been in college. However, my dad's working hours have been cut and with my younger sister after starting college this year my parents are under severe financial strain. All this has made me realize that I should pull my head out of the clouds and stop relying on my parents. My college workload is insane this year as it's my final year so there's no chance of me getting a job without it bringing down the grades I've been working so hard to keep up. So, instead of putting my parents under more pressure and asking them to finance my masters, I think I should take a year out and get a job to save for my masters.

So what's the problem then you ask? Well, it's that, being a person who plans everything, I'm finding it really hard to cope with the fact that the future that I planned for myself is a not happening now. I've heard plenty of people say that they regret taking time out of college as it's really hard to get back into. I've been told by a lot of my professors that academia would suit me very well and now I'm faced with the prospect of forsaking that for a 9 to 5 job stuck behind a till (if my miserable qualifications can get me even that). It's making me feel unbelievably stressed because things are so uncertain. I know some of you might say that I'm just throwing a tantrum because I have to go out into the real world now but I can't help this feeling of extreme disappointment. I guess I'm looking for reassurance that I'll be ok (which I know that no one can predict). After all that rambling my question is how do I cope with these feelings? Am I doing the right thing?

woodchuck

Would doing a PhD instead of a masters be an option for you? I’ve a scientific background, but a PhD seems to be the more common route for people looking to pursue a career in academia in my area. There are still funded PhDs around (again, in science anyway). If you get a funded PhD this should cover all fees and include a stipend to live off (~16000euro a year, but this varies). It’s the best of both worlds in a way; you get to continue your education and are essentially paid to do so. Obviously a PhD will take longer to complete (3-4 years) but since your career plan seems to include potentially being a lecturer, this shouldn’t be too big a hurdle for you and I would have thought it's an essential requirement.

If this is something that interests you, I’d suggest talking to someone in your department who can give you some more practical advice on doing a PhD in History.

LegacyUser

Thanks for replying, woodchuck! The thing is, the area I'm interested in is medieval history. That means, in order to do well, I need a basis in Latin which I don't have right now. Doing a masters was a way to learn Latin (as there's a module dedicated to it) and also help me to narrow down the area of medieval history I wanted to to focus on for my PhD. I feel like jumping straight into PhD is a bit risky because I'm not sure what area of medieval history I want to focus on.

In addition, I have discussed my options with one of my professors but he stated that, in postgraduate courses, most people apply for and receive funding after they've started the actual course. Unfortunately, I do not have the funds to begin a course with no guarantee of funding and am wary about getting into debt to do so.

Kimia

I have to say OP, I think that thinking you could go through college, all the way from BA - PHD, without either having a part time job OR having a student loan is completely unrealistic and I'm not surprised that it hasn't worked out for you.

Welcome to reality I'm afraid. I think you'll have to either get a part time job to continue with your studies or take some time off (which I also wouldn't recommend). It's a tough choice but one that was a long time coming.

woodchuck

Kimia wrote: »

I have to say OP, I think that thinking you could go through college, all the way from BA - PHD, without either having a part time job OR having a student loan is completely unrealistic and I'm not surprised that it hasn't worked out for you.

Welcome to reality I'm afraid. I think you'll have to either get a part time job to continue with your studies or take some time off (which I also wouldn't recommend). It's a tough choice but one that was a long time coming.

Bit harsh, the OP has already said they’re ready to start being financially responsible for themselves.

But yes, there is a strong possibility you’ll have to work for a year to save up enough money to do a masters. If you do have to do this it’s not the end of the world though. While it would difficult to take a break from academia and then return to it, if you’re determined you should do fine. Particularly if you do your best to keep your mind active during your year of work (eg. you could do some research into different areas of medieval history to give yourself a head start and get an idea of an area you’d like to focus on).

Doing Latin seems to be the real deal breaker then? There’s definitely no other way you could learn this and start off in a PhD instead? Just financially I think this route would make more sense than doing a masters and then a PhD. I’m sure you’ve explored this already, but you definitely couldn’t learn it through night classes or sit in on some Latin lectures this year?

I know you also said you’d prefer to do a masters because you don’t know what area of medieval history you’d want to focus on… but to be honest I think doing a masters before a PhD for this reason is overrated. It’s more the Latin requirement I’d be trying to address if I was you if you’d really prefer not to take a break from academia.

therambler wrote: »

In addition, I have discussed my options with one of my professors but he stated that, in postgraduate courses, most people apply for and receive funding after they've started the actual course. Unfortunately, I do not have the funds to begin a course with no guarantee of funding and am wary about getting into debt to do so.

Just to address this point also… yes, you’re right, there’s no way you should start something if you’re not whether or not it’s funded! Again, I’m not sure how it works for history, but in science there are both funded and unfunded PhDs. If you were to go down the PhD route (either now or in the future) then I’d definitely recommend making sure you have funding before you start! I’ve heard stories of people thinking they have funding (has been ‘implied’ but not stated, or supervisors saying they will secure funding soon). For science there are ways to get your own funding before your start or there are funded positions advertised. But again, this could be different for history.

coco_lola

OP, why don't you do your Masters part time? That way you could work a 9-5 and do 1-2 evenings a week on your Masters. I know plenty people who have done it that way. Most people I know now who are doing full time are living off Mammy and Daddy, have funding, or worked their butts off for a year or two to save.

p

therambler wrote: »

I've heard plenty of people say that they regret taking time out of college as it's really hard to get back into. I've been told by a lot of my professors that academia would suit me very well and now I'm faced with the prospect of forsaking that for a 9 to 5 job stuck behind a till (if my miserable qualifications can get me even that).

I understand your anxiety, if you have such fixed plans, then it's going to throw you when things don't go as expected. Plans give you security, and make you feel stable and confident. Sadly, life's going to give you speed bumps, so try and consider this a learning opportunity, rather than a setback. You need to be able to deal emotionally with plans not working out, so this will help you with that, though i'm sure it will be tough to get used to something less solid than you're used to.

I would not rule out taking a year out. I did a masters after working for 4 years and it's not that big a deal. You're also only 21, which is quite young to decide to go directly into a Masters and on to a PhD. There's a lot of academics with no knowledge of the real world, so a bit of experience working, and learning how to deal with the unexpected could be a great learning experience for you.

Ideally, you should aim for some work vaguely relevant to your interests, in a museum, as a tour guide etc... so that it's not just working in Tescos.


Also, since your main motivation for doing a masters was to learn Latin, surely you could just do a Latin course outside of academia while working, no?

To be honest, OP, I don't think you realise what an easy ride you seem to have had compared to most other students. I agree with Kimia - I think it's insane that you seem to have expected to get to PhD level without spending a penny of your own money or taking out a loan. I would also wonder how much you're really bothered about a career in academia if such a tiny setback (and it IS a tiny setback in the grand scheme of things) is enough to make you panic and question everything. Most people, except the fortunate few whose Mammy and Daddy can afford to support them, take time off to save or take out a loan for postgrad study, so why can't you?

The excuse that taking time off might make it hard to get back into things is pretty feeble. I did a Masters starting in 2009 and only a handful of people had just finished their undergrad degree. I'd taken two years off myself and at 24, I was one of the youngest students on the course. Loads of people had been working and saving for 3-4 years and some had spent the past two decades raising a family! If you're in any way intelligent and motivated, it really isn't that hard to get back into it. I also don't understand why you need to do a Masters to learn Latin. Take an evening class or teach yourself.

Sorry if I come across as harsh, as you do sound like a reasonable and mature person, but the truth is, this is life. You just can't expect to have everything the way you want it without making any sacrifices. A lot of students could come out with perfect grades if they didn't have to work every weekend, but they don't have the choice. I chose to concentrate on college instead of working all hours, but I have a huge amount of student debt which I'm only starting to pay off 5 years after graduating. If I were you, I'd be happy I was able to do a BA solely on grants and parents' money and suck up having to work for a year or two. It's really not a big deal. You'll only be 23 when you start the Masters, which is still really young. I think work experience in the real world would be really good for you as well. You can always keep learning through evening courses and reading so your brain doesn't go rusty. I think you should stop seeing this as a massive obstacle and try to see it as an opportunity to do something a bit different which will stand to you in the future.

dellas1979

I'm only talking about my own experience here, but OP, for want of a better expression, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Most people in education/reality do have to go and get jobs - I remember doing my undergrad, working 6 till maybe 2/3 in the morning. Getting back up for 8 to be in college for 9. Jebus I wonder how I did it now, but I did, and have the utmost respect for other people who are doing/have to do it.

I would be quite an academic person myself, but I dont get why its seen as wrong/wrong career/life choice for people in this bubble to go out into the real world and get real world experience.

I think its great that you know what you want to do! Thats half the battle. But if you cant afford to do the masters now, go out get a job and save up for it, like the rest of the world does. Go back in a few years and then pursue it. Take up latin during this time. Go back and then and even pursue the PhD. There are options out there, just gotta go find them.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

I felt compelled to answer your post, considering I was in your position a few years ago. I'm in the final year of my PhD (on an aspect of early Irish medieval history).

If you are going to get a 1st or a good 2:1 in your degree, I really wouldn't bother with doing a masters, if you're ultimately looking to do a PhD anyway. I was advised against doing a masters by my 3rd year supervisor at the time. The point being that why would you do another year of material that you haven't really chosen yourself, when you can search out material that you can make your own? I don't know which University you are currently attending, or which Masters course you wish to do. I do know that most of them train you up in research skills and whatnot, but these are skills that can be easily picked up by yourself, with help from your supervisor, when you immerse yourself in the material. If you already have an aptitude for it, don't bother taking an extra year to tick the boxes, just get into it.

With regard to Latin, I arranged with my supervisor to take modules in Latin (sit in with the undergrads, do the class assessments and exams, so that it would appear on my transcript), in my first couple of years of the PhD. This was before the days of 'structured' PhD's, but I'm sure any college in this island would gladly accommodate you. If you know what to ask for, they should sort you out. This requires that you talk to your intended supervisor as soon as possible about the possibilities. In fact, if Latin really was a deal breaker, and you wanted to know it before selecting a project, I would suggest doing a specialist Latin HDip or Postgrad diploma, where you would have a qualification in it (more arrows in your bow for when you finish). You can pick up Latin as you go in your PhD though, that's what I did, as did most PhD students that I know in medieval studies. Latin, even more so than 'living' languages can be learned mostly by yourself - pick yourself up Jones & Sidwell's 'Reading Latin', textbook and workbook second-hand somewhere, and work your way through it. Most 1st year core Latin modules would work through the first 4 chapters of that. It's a great language to learn (but I'm biased!)

Don't be afraid of starting straight into on. Talk to your lecturers about potential areas that interest you, ask for their feedback on where there may be niches in those areas which require further or new investigation. Don't get hung up on the exact definition of your project from the beginning. It will change, as you change and develop over the course of the PhD. That's the nature of working with medieval texts!

With regard to finance, I relied on the Postgraduate grant to get me through the first three years of my PhD, and it was very useful in keeping the wolf from the door. I also worked part-time, 24 hours a week. It made for slow progress sometimes. I suggest, as others have, that you seriously consider the part-time option. Your fees will be halved per year (and thus more manageable), you will be equally busy anyway with reading, and Latin if you can take it on during the PhD. With that, you should try take on a part-time job. Tough, but manageable. If things improve financially, look at going back to full-time further along the road.

There are scholarships you should consider applying for also. Your college should run some. I'm not sure if IRCHSS are running postgrad scholarships this year, but check it out. There are also advertised paid PhD's in certain aspects of medieval studies all over Europe (and occasionally in Ireland), you should consider these if you want a career in academia, as they are usually connected to excellent institutions and will look great on your CV - yes, you should be thinking of this even now! I wish I had

Funded PhDs in the humanities are the exception rather than the rule, but they do exist. Hunt them out. Look abroad, and consider all possibilities!

In short, it is not hopeless, there are many options, they may be difficult to obtain, but its not too late to start investigating them. This PhD is the most rewarding thing I have ever undertaken in my life, and I feel truly lucky to engage with the material that I have studied.
So give it a shot. If you end up having to take a year out working, so what? You are young (esp. for medieval studies), and time is on your side. A word of warning, medieval PhD projects can take a lot of time, depending on what you study, and what you discover. They also require a massive amount of background reading to familiarise yourself with the concepts and thought behind certain works (especially if you are interested in the role of Christian thought and the medieval world). So don't expect to breeze in and out in 3 years. They can take a little longer

Hope this helps, if you have any questions, post again.

LegacyUser

Thank you all for your replies. Seeing as I wrote the post in the heat of the moment after realizing all this, I now have the benefit of hindsight and all of your really helpful replies. Like I said originally, my head was in the clouds, relying on my parents and the government. The reason why I came on here was because I felt really despondent and felt like all my work in my degree would be for nothing. Being part of a circle of friends who rely on their parents, I think I was living in a bubble, believing that this was how most people did it. Obviously, that's not the case and I realize that now and actually am looking forward to earning my own money to pay for my own education.

I'm going to look into a part-time masters like you guys are saying but what I may do is take the year off the work; learn Latin and maybe start looking at viable PhD topics. Thank you so much for your reply medievalPhD as it's the first time I've heard personally from someone doing a PhD in medieval history and your post has really helped me in giving me some solid, practical advice and boosting my confidence in what I was doing (which had been knocked due to the amount of people who were telling me that I'd be better off being a secondary school teacher!).

I came on here because I was completely frazzled due to this sudden change. Over the last few days I've been pretty despondent and moping around (being prone to melodramatics ) but I've been coming on here and checking this thread and you guys have thrown me a lot of thoughts to latch onto as I get over the initial shock of it. Thank you

LegacyUser

I have a PhD in history. Nice to have, but it's completely delusional to think that it will get you on the path to an academic career. The jobs are not there; they weren't even there when I started mine back in the glory days of the Celtic Tiger. I won a 3-year PhD scholarship and got everything paid for, including trips abroad. It sounds great but essentially I won it not because I did well in final year (plenty of people did) but because my supervisor was friends with the chief academic on the awarding committee.

I was told all the usual spiel about my "academic career". That wasn't why I was doing a PhD; if the academic career came out of it that would be a huge, albeit highly unlikely, bonus.

Universities are businesses. It is very, very important to appreciate this. Lecturers are first and foremost researchers; they lecture because the fees pay their salaries. You know all those university rankings? Research success, not teaching success, is the principal quality sought in universities. Students, even PhD students, are in general a distraction from a lecturer's work, or there to be exploited to do the lecturer's research or boost his reputation. I know lecturers who finished their students theses because departmental rankings and funding is measured by things such as completed theses and the head of department told them they have to get that thesis finished. They are businesses. The job of a supervisor is to get the fee income from another PhD student and keep the show on the road. If that means telling you about the great potential of your career, they'll do so.

If you're looking for a career, look at the specialised professions which can make people money, and thus make you money. History does not make money, generally speaking. Therefore career potential is very restricted. The academic history community in Ireland is tiny, and with tiny communities everywhere always comes back scratching and domination of the community by a few people who are surrounded by sycophants or people on their 3rd post doc holding out the eternal dream of being a tenure track lecturer in an Irish university but who'll never get anywhere because they annoyed one of the Gods of the academic history (insert chosen academic discipline) business ten years beforehand, or simply because the jobs are not there. If you have your heart set on a PhD (a masters in history is a joke), talk to somebody in your uni career guidance office. There are smarter ways of getting job satisfaction. Indeed, it is possible to get the prestige of 'Dr' before your name simply by choosing a PhD subject which could be useful to the world. Don't waste years doing a PhD which has no serious career progression, no matter what you're being promised by people who have a self-interest in recruiting you as a PhD student.

Powerhouse

therambler wrote: »

boosting my confidence in what I was doing (which had been knocked due to the amount of people who were telling me that I'd be better off being a secondary school teacher!).

Just for the record (in case you decide at some stage in the future to consider this route for lack of other options), History is not a viable subject for a second-level teacher as History graduates are ten a penny, and English/History combinations are certainly the most common among teaching graduates. That said, don't knock those who suggest it as it is a very obvious career consideration - just would be a bad idea unless you want to draw the dole.

That said History PhDs are almost a cliché at this stage too. Having qualifications that are not good for employment is one thing but getting 'better' qualifications that are not good for employment as if this wil somehow miraculously change anything is a dubious tactic.

But don't get sucked too easily into the 'Master's is pointless do a PhD instead' argument too easily either. You could end up doing some brain-dead topic that'll bore you senseless if you go blindly into a PhD and end up doing it for years and maybe not completing it and just coming out with a 'joke' M.Litt or something. At least a Master's would be dead handy, over in a short time and would give you breathing space to decide what areas might interest you, and if you do well maybe some contacts.

LegacyUser

I am in the exact same situation OP,
my head was not in the clouds I have no worries about getting part time work
I am always applying for positions and getting the odd interview, the lack of experience and social skills makes it tricky.

I worry about not being able to get the work to fund, I need my masters to work in the only area I can and employment is still not guaranteed.

Don't worry about having to take a break you're going to be doing this work for the rest of your life you will be able to get your head into the course, anyway you'd be surprised how many masters do not take graduates straight from undergrad (so a few heads of masters in UCD passionately explained to me at a networking event)

I suppose because the places are so limited, and hey what you want to focus on might change after you graduate, my friend did a course in english lit took a few years off partied worked in a pizza place went into a masters in music and did exceptionally well, is now doing a PHD and knows because he's in his 20s that being a professor or getting decent funding for work is a while away, but he teaches music to teenagers in schools and privately

So as we're all doing arts degrees I can safely say diversifying is the way to go and to set up an alternative source of income, most people I know work in min wage jobs, some in offices, some have complete other careers part time and the work is precarious as well so you need another way of making money.

But that will come eventually, I understand the anxiety I was aiming for a first and when I found out about the funding I gave up because I was upset and anxious because you're immediate life plan has been turned upside down, you're worried you're dream is on the rocks not because you don't want to pay, if you knew you had to pay going into this you would of made arrangements.

And if it makes you feel better I just had the grant I had to spread over 12 months, had no support from parents was homeless on and off during college and can't seem to get any kind of work, I was scared nothing to do with the "real" world just take it easy:)

Sala

Another point that you should consider - working is often good for you when you are studying full time. During my college years I always worked, about 20 hours a week, and we workers did as well if not better than those who never had a job before.

I know a lot of people of phd programmes who have scholarships, and wish they could work (scholarships often don't let you) as it takes your mind off the phd. I presume if you have weeks and weeks ahead of you that you have to fill yourself it can be difficult, but if you know you are working, say, Monday Wednesday Friday you make the most of your more limited time for study, and be more productive as a result.